posted on January 2, 2004 09:48:35 PM new
FLD is finally over and there are some disapointments but there are also some profits. I only list on free listing day because the fees are too high on ebay. It the listing fees that eat you up. Although they advertise them as small, the truth is they are hudge. I spend all year creating my listings, getting ready for this final day.
I have created some 1200 listing in collectables (coins). I sold about 207 items. This gave me a 17% sell thru rate. My gross sells came to nearly $5000. My profits would have been slightly less than $600 guessing. My FVF came to $214. I sell items that range from $800 to $10. Now if I had to pay the listing fees my total ebay bill would come to nearly a $1000 because of such a small sell thru rate. This is proof that selling on ebay is not a profit making venture except on free listing day. Conclusion being ebays rates are too high.
Now I have sold items on ebay for years and every year the sell thru rate gets lower and lower. When I first started I sold 95 % of what I listed which is basically the same items I list now. It was not uncommon to gross $30,000 or more. Each year the sell thru rate gets lower and lower. Last year I had a sell thru rate of 30%. I expect that next year the sell thru rate will be 8%.
I also sell many of my items on my web page which has no sell thru rate because it is free. The only difference is items on it sell slower than listing on ebay but the profit is greater on the web site. Unless ebay changes its fee structure more sellers will wake up the fact that ebay is not profitable and lose alot more of its sellers. What do you think.
posted on January 2, 2004 10:19:48 PM new
I think that you experiment lacks logic and that if ebay was not profitable listings would go down and not up.
I think that the key is finding the right items and hitting the right market but you are trying to apply your single catagory which is an extreme niche to the whole of ebay.
For you - ebay is not what it could be although to tell you the truth, you are biting your nose of despite your face by listing only twice a year. You are in a catagory that has a lot of scam artists so buyers are hesitant but once they gain trust are repeat buyers. You do not stay around long enough to establish yourself as legit or to curry the favor of repeat bidders. It's not ebay that is failing, it is your business module. I would never buy an item over probably $25 from someone that has no current listing history and then slams in 1200 listings in one day. That send too many red flags. My first question would be "Is this a hijacked acccount"?
Why don't you try adjusting your module a little. List a few items in a single catagory of collectible coins each week, keep up a listing history, start working on gaining regulars and see if things don't start building.
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If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
posted on January 2, 2004 10:59:30 PM new
Those are great ideas and basically I use to follow some of those suggestions. But I learned that good suggestions which seem logical do not bring in the profits when there are not enough bidders. My business is centered around these collectables which I enjoy, who want to go out and find junk or watches or computer parts to sell when that is not my nitch.
The reason listing is up is because of FLD. Have you looked at a chart lately??? But before FLD, listings were going down and after FLD, listing will go down. These business models do not work and the reason is because the fees is too high. Ebay is failing.
In 1998 and 1999 I had no business model and was selling a tremendous amount. I hardly had any feed back. My sell thru rate was 95%. Now my feed back rationg is very high with a very small amount of neutrels. Still little bids and profit. The sellers who are left are eaten up with fees and are hoping against hope, many have left.
It is time to face the music.
posted on January 2, 2004 11:09:30 PM new
Everyone sell thru rate was thru the roof bacck then. I could buy toys retail at KayBee and sell them for double what I paid for them the next week. As with all products - things change and a successfull seller reads the changes and adjusts to them.
There are a lot of sucessful sellers on ebay and I defy you to show me actual numbers demonstrating a decline in listings in the past three years.
You have chosen a method that is no longer successful and you blame the medium rather than the market or marketing. 15 years ago Richard Simmons videos sold thru the roof via infomercial. Today their market share is much lower. Does that mean that infomercials no longer work or is it just that the marketing module is out of date and there are more competitors in the field?
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If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
posted on January 3, 2004 04:23:15 AM new
Bear in mind that this thread was started by someone who implies (in another thread) that eBay (that minion of Satan) has its employees spend their lunch hours fraudulently bidding on auctions so the corporation can skim the listing fees for extra cash.
posted on January 3, 2004 05:18:57 AM new
Now you ebay employees need to go back to what your were doing and let the truth be known. You can't ignore that ebay is not as profitable as it use to be. In fact that is what you are saying when you bring up KayBEE toys. My point is that ebay is profitable if you use FLD. I proved that is true and by the hudge number of listings on FLD, everyone else is discovering that the profitablity is largely on that day because of the low sell thru rate. Why list any other day to largely give ebay the profit!
Believe me I have tried to use your business model on ebay and it just does not work. I would rather use your model but for the most it will not work. The model I use now works and there are alot of my friends who are doing the same model --FLD--. As a mater of fact they are the ones who taught me how to save listings thru the year and only list on that day.
Ebay employees are scared, yes they know that their business can bite the dust quickly. They are going to do everything they can to generate revenue. They would like to do away with FLD. They know that FLD is like a shot in the arm to a drug addict. But without it they would not survive. Their stocks would go down to the cellar. Its a well know fact that when business start to fell, the employees resorts to unethical behavior. This one will be no different. By the way how long have you been woring for ebay?
posted on January 3, 2004 05:41:31 AM new
I participate in FLD because I am not one to turn down a freebie! I also listed 1200 items - all of them relists. My sell through rate for FLD falls way below my average sell through rate and my average sales price is more than $2.00 lower/item than my average sales price. I will never list "new listings" on FLD! If I were to judge my profitablilty on eBay by FLD, I too would say it isn't worth it.
But, dbest, one can't do that! FLD is an aberration! The categories are flooded with listings because everyone else is taking advantage of FLD.. most buyers can't even find listings except by accident or looking at items by seller.
Fenix gave you some good advice about a business plan.
To me, at least, FLD is "for fun", a way to clean house, and although the results make the 12+ hours I spent listing worth it, it surely isn't anything to depend on!
posted on January 3, 2004 06:29:03 AM new
I know I shouldn't even bother replying to these troll type discussions, but now that I have the image of eBay employees running through the halls screaming in panic, or snorting coke and entering fraud bids on weight-loss pills in order to boost year-end numbers, I am no good for anything else today.
It is an elementary business principal that at slow times you can offer incentives to drum up business or otherwise influence buying decisions. Restaurants offer early bird specials, hotels offer discounts for low travel periods, etc. Ebay uses FLDs when listings are normally down. Do they offer FLD during the peak Christmas shopping season? No. Do they offer it immediately after Christmas, when listings die down? Yes. Ebay can still make money on the FVFs, sellers may move low-profit merchandise. Everybody wins.
Can't tell you how long I have been "woring" for eBay. Did you mean working? wiring? whoring? snoring?
[ edited by Damariscotta on Jan 3, 2004 06:29 AM ]
posted on January 3, 2004 06:56:05 AM new
I have never seen it fail, that when someone cannot meet the argument they always attack an error like mis-spelling. What I do not understand is.....If this is a troll type discussion why did you engage in it anyway?
Now I agree with you that offering FLD at certain times is reasonable. That is not the point. People are seeing that there are more profitablity on free listing days even if their sell thru rate is smaller than during peak times. This is not about business models and customer satisfaction or common sense. It is about profit.
Restaurants and hotels that offer these discounts and specials has a problem and they are trying to deal with it. The ones who do not offer these specials are usually the ones that are doing well. They don't need discount. If ebay was to stop offering FLD specials theie listings would fall off considerable and so would their stock.
Ebay employees knows this all too well. That fear is in their minds and some of them will go to extraordinary means to save their skins. When the ship starts to sink panic sets in. You still have not told us how long you have worked for ebay??
posted on January 3, 2004 08:21:30 AM new
::now that I have the image of eBay employees running through the halls screaming in panic, or snorting coke and entering fraud bids on weight-loss pills in order to boost year-end numbers, I am no good for anything else today. ::
ROFL!!!!
~~
Dbest - I had forgotten about your underlying paranoia complex. It's not attractive.
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If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
posted on January 3, 2004 08:34:11 AM newThe reason listing is up is because of FLD. Have you looked at a chart lately??? But before FLD, listings were going down and after FLD, listing will go down.
This is actually a pretty poor example. During the Christmas shopping season (which online is from Late September till the first part of December, you will find that listing numbers are up as well as sales. Your example shows that listing numbers were down just before FLD. DUH !!!! Ever since I have been doing ebay auctions, a damm long time now, they have always had the Christmas free listing day for it's sellers as a gift to them. The guess was when it would be. In turn, the sellers tend to wait to list items until the FLD, so in turn the listing numbers will go down. Of course when a FLD comes the listing numbers will sky rocket and then go back down after. I for one put every single items I have on and on items that I have more than one, I will run a new auction for that item instead of running a dutch auction. The reason for this is quite simple too. If that item don't sell, I get to use that auction as a possible listing fee refund auction on a relist. But I would never relist all my items at once. That is where you get into trouble. You use your web site as your main selling tool and that is great. I have one as well, but how do you think I promote it? I use ebay for that. When a person bids, in my winning e-mail I give them that link and it goes from there.
posted on January 3, 2004 09:13:44 AM new
I always thought you were her. I never thought you would admit it. Now Meg if you don't lower those fees your business will fell. People are tired of you taking all their profits and giving little in return. We want our right portion. Why can't we post our web sites on our ebay listings? Why are you so greedy? Why can't we email some of those poor bidders and warn them about the dangers of losing money on ebay fraud. Why don't you police your employees better, stop their bidding up prices and then pulling the plug? Why do you allow your employees to shill this board, acting as though they are just another seller? One day people will wake up and realize that honesty is the best policy.
Could I make another suggestion that I believe will enhance your business? Have more free lising days maybe one per month. That way you will have more business and your company will become more respectable and enjoyable. If changes are not made your employees will be the ones to suffer.
posted on January 3, 2004 09:34:41 AM new
Thank you for your suggestions and questions. You will be pleased with the new programs we are rolling out in the new year.
- No more listing fees
- No more final value fees
- If your items don't seem to be selling , we will buy them from you at whatever price you ask.
- If you don't have anything to sell, we will just send you a wad of cash.
- If you are within 50 miles of our offices we will bring your breakfast in bed; otherwise we will send you a box of Krispy Kremes every week.
I am eBay, eBay c'est moi!
[ edited by Damariscotta on Jan 3, 2004 09:35 AM ]
[ edited by Damariscotta on Jan 3, 2004 09:38 AM ]
posted on January 3, 2004 10:41:45 AM new
Glad you could enter into the discussion Meg. Can you tell us how many of your employees buy on eBay to keep their jobs?
Of course eBay isn't the place it use to be. You have to remember that there are many more sellers than there was when they started. One of a kind pieces of jewelry became 10 of a kind because everyone one had a piece but in their geographical location they were rare. Not many things are rare on eBay. I did list a rare item on FLD and it didn't do to bad. I don't understand dbest as he comes in here and bashes eBay why not just leave as if you read these posts these sellers aren't doing bad. One thing I enjoy about eBay is the contact with other parts of the world that I would never have. Getting Japanese emails, french emails, German emails. It's all in the thrill of what you sell and who and why they are buying it. That is my opinion. I will never make a living doing this but it is fun and I don't mind paying my way to do it.
[ edited by Libra63 on Jan 3, 2004 10:43 AM ]
posted on January 3, 2004 01:43:26 PM new
Well Meg see you next free lising day. If it does not come then i will never see you again. Awwwwaaaaayyyyyyy
posted on January 3, 2004 03:29:26 PM new
I have a basic concern about the viability of your business.
With gross sales or $5000 and only $600 in gross profit makes your margins razor thin. I am pretty sure that it is not possible to operate any business on such razor thin margins.
In the real world retail margins, with very few exceptions, are 66% (i.e $5000 in gross sales results in $3300 in gross profits) I was able to sell for margins at or greater than this for many years on ebay.
Now I can get perhaps 30%, which I refuse to accept. I am only selling off my remaining inventory, which has been paid for many times over in the past 5 years.
However, it is true that ebay's listing fees are way too high. Many people simply do not realize how much it really comes to. I would be willing to bet that ebays income from listing fee's exceeds it's income from FV Fees by many many times.
posted on January 3, 2004 05:23:38 PM new
I enjoy doing the FLD,but I also do mainly relist or try something I don't usually sell. I don't have the sell though rate on FLD I do the rest of the year,this year I only sold 1/3 of what I listed. I had sold 56% the month before. No I agree with alot of sellers the sales aren't what they used to be.
