posted on January 5, 2004 01:36:38 PM new
Hello everybody!
I posted this in the thread about the new ebay fees structure, but I figured that some might miss this part, which is something that has been the subject of many a rant and complaint.
I just read the announcement on Ebay, and it does have some good points.
I will quote some:
Non-Paying Bidder Re-list Credit - Currently, an item listed on eBay.com that is won, but not paid for by the buyer, is not eligible for an insertion fee credit when the seller re-lists the item and it sells. As of February 2, 2004, qualifying NPB items will be eligible for the standard re-list credit.
Second Chance Offer if Reserve Not Met - Currently, a reserve price item that ends without the reserve price being met is not eligible for a Second Chance Offer. Beginning in mid-March, sellers will be able to make a Second Chance Offer to under-bidders on items that do not meet the reserve. In addition, the reserve fee will be refunded if the Second Chance Offer is accepted.
The part of "NPB" is something that everybody has been complaining about, but on the other hand they will make it up with higher fees.
I'm not trying to open many threads, but I figure this will make some people happy.
posted on January 5, 2004 01:52:24 PM new
tabletop: I am going to have re-read that part of the policy. I am trying to figure if you can now do that with reserve, do you start the item at the price you want, or list it with a reserve,see what it gets and then maybe offer it out??? hmmmm...
posted on January 6, 2004 01:29:30 PM newtabletop: I am going to have re-read that part of the policy. I am trying to figure if you can now do that with reserve, do you start the item at the price you want, or list it with a reserve,see what it gets and then maybe offer it out??? hmmmm...
Wonder if we will now see more reserves?
the ruling says
Currently, an item listed on eBay.com or eBay Motors that is won, but not paid for by the buyer, is not eligible for an insertion fee credit when the seller re-lists the item and it sells. As of February 2, 2004, qualifying NPB items will be eligible for the standard re-list credit.
So if you use this new improvement you must file the final NPB notice on a deadbeat buyer. I don't see how it would effect Reserve Auctions any differently than regular auctions?
One good thing is that maybe some lazy sellers will now file their NPBs and get some deadbeats booted ( and make them go through some effort to get a new account ).
-------------- sig file ----------- *There is no conclusive evidence that life is serious*
[ edited by auctionACE on Jan 6, 2004 01:30 PM ]
posted on January 6, 2004 07:20:39 PM new
That's good that listing fees will be refunded for NPB's. But will ebay also refund the listing upgrades like gallery, bold, etc.? The first time (and last time) I did a "Featured" auction, the buyer was deadbeat and ebay kept the $19.95 fee.
posted on January 7, 2004 02:07:52 AM new
It's not a true refund like the FVF refund for an NPB. It's a free relist if the item sells? It looks like if the item does not sell on the second try then you are out another listing fee? Ebay made that as clear as mud.
-------------- sig file ----------- *There is no conclusive evidence that life is serious*
posted on January 7, 2004 11:45:54 AM new
AuctionACE:
What they are doing (based only on my reading), is offering a free re-list, which in a way does make sense. Since the buyer didn't keep the terms, and the sale is annulled, it goes back to the point of being before the sale. This gives you a right to re-list, but not your money back.
This reasoning is not terrible. Many seller might be happier with a full refund, but life being what it is...
In the past, the biggest complaint was the fact that in addition to losing the deal, we would be out the listing fee as well.
It is not clear what the time limitations are, but I assume that you would have 30 days from NPB filing. Anyone knows more about this.
Finally, "ebayauctionguy" does have a point. According to this logic, ebay should allow the re-list to be of the same type as the original listing. In other words, if you had "boldface" or "featured" etc., you should get it in the re-list without being charged again.
posted on January 7, 2004 12:21:11 PM newWhat they are doing (based only on my reading), is offering a free re-list, which in a way does make sense. Since the buyer didn't keep the terms, and the sale is annulled, it goes back to the point of being before the sale.
No, it doesn't. Your reasoning is faulty.
If I list an item and it doesn't sell, I can relist it for free if it does sell the second time. Right? If it doesn't sell the second time, I am out two listing fees.
If I list an item, I get the deadbeat from hell and end up filing FVF, I get the relist for free if it sells the second time, just as in the first scenario. I *do* *not* get a fresh listing of the item (which would entitle me to a free-relist-if-sold) AND I am still out one listing fee, the original.
It does not go back to the point of being before the sale. This seems to be where you are confused. It goes to the point of this-item-was-listed-but-did-not-sell. Not the same thing.
In the past, the biggest complaint was the fact that in addition to losing the deal, we would be out the listing fee as well.
Everyone still IS out the listing fee. You've let eBay's weasel wording blind you.
Let's be clear about what eBay is doing here, OK? It's possible you didn't get the great chorus of "All Praise Kind Beneficent eBay" that you were expecting because we understand what they're doing.
--
"What does the 'O' stand for?"
"Nothing."
[ edited by fluffythewondercat on Jan 7, 2004 12:23 PM ]
posted on January 7, 2004 12:36:13 PM new
In case that was as clear as a river of liquefied dirt, look at it this way. There are states an auction item can be in:
1) Never listed
2) Currently listed
3) Listed but did not sell
4) Listed and sold
5) Relisted because it did not sell
What eBay wants to do now, when you file FVF, is to take your level 4 (Listed and sold) item and revert it to level 3 (Listed but did not sell).
What I believe every eBay seller would prefer would be to revert the level 4 item to level 1 (Never listed), wiping the slate clean.
We want to be made whole when a buyer defaults. If eBay has to institute a mandatory credit card registration program for buyers in order to make wronged sellers whole, then so be it. It's way past time.
posted on January 7, 2004 02:28:58 PM new
Hey Fluffy!
Your analysis and especially the second post (with the number system), certainly beats mine.
I agree with you, that if it is as you say, that it will revert to a level 3, it indeed is not fair at all. While it would be an improvement on the existing rule, it fall far short of the ideal.
Yet, I am not sure if it is indeed as you say, as there is no clarity in ebay's notice. Perhaps, this is deliberately so, but most likely, has not been issued in detail.
In any case, I am no ebay apologist, and hate parting with my money as much as anyone else. I just understood it differently. Now, I am unsure, and I wonder if anyone has some clarity on this.
Thanks again FLUFFY, for your posts, and especially the second one.
posted on January 7, 2004 11:04:58 PM new
You know, eBay for all of its rinky-dink candy-colored bluster, is an astoundingly hypocritical "venue".
NPB's and the tortuous processes imposed to recoup fees is just one example that belies a really pernicious let 'em eat cake attitude.
Not until 7 days to begin the process and then if you're 28 days late or whatever, you get their smarmy little "Whoops" you lose page.
This is truly representative of their attitude as a corporation. A complete disdain for any real notion of customer service. Inflexible, imperious, aloof..Swiftian, really; had he a computer & the courts of Europe a Meg, I'm sure he would have written another book.
"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people and I require the same from them."- John Wayne/The Shootist"(from the novel by Glendon Swarthout)
posted on January 9, 2004 04:44:48 PM newIt does not go back to the point of being before the sale. This seems to be where you are confused. It goes to the point of this-item-was-listed-but-did-not-sell. Not the same thing.
Fluffy,
This a true. But what you fail to post is the alternative or the way it is now. The way it is now is if you get a deadbeat, you are out your original posting fees. Then because it doesn't qualify as a relist, it becomes a new listing and you are out the same fees again, no matter if it sells or not.
Original fee 1.10 dollars.
New listing fee 1.10 dollars. If sells, no refund.
Total listing fees 2.20 dollars.
Relist again 1.10 dollars. If sale, refund -1.10 dollars. If no sale.
Total listing fees spent 3.30 dollars.
The new system will consider the deadbeat listing as a relist and will be eligible for a listing refund. Yes, if it don't sell, you will be out the fees, but that is the way it is if the item didn't sell on a normal relist. And what if the deadbeat was on a relisted auction? You would get a second chance on a relist which you wouldn't get under a normal relist and non-sale item.
Original fee 1.10 dollars.
Relisting fee 1.10 dollars. If sells, refund -1.10 dollars.
Total listing fees 1.10 dollars.
If no sale, total listing fees 2.20 dollars.
This system is much more fair. We all list in hopes of making a sale. There is no guarantee that it will, even on a relist. But at least they are giving us the chance to make the sale on a deadbeat relist and that is all we really are asking for anyway. I don't see this a a weasel out way for ebay. We were listing the item anyway. It is simply giving us a realistic shot to complete a sale.
[ edited by stonecold613 on Jan 9, 2004 04:52 PM ]
