tomwiii
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posted on January 21, 2004 07:04:33 AM new
Ralphie stumbled upon around 30 GIN BOTTLES from the 1700's!
He met a Rhodesian Ridgeback, whose human was an oilman in Nigeria during the 1960s -- apparently, these bottles were in rivers & the locals fished them out & sold them for pennies!
Ralph will post pics tomorrow, but I was wondering if anybody here knew anything about 18th CENTURY GIN BOTTLES??
These are all mint, but without any paper labels 
THANK YOU 1&ALL!
Ralphie loves Mr Blonde:
"Are you gonna bark all day little doggie, or are you gonna bite?"
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/vidrat/
[ edited by tomwiii on Jan 21, 2004 07:05 AM ]
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tomwiii
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posted on January 21, 2004 07:16:09 AM new
BTW: what is a pontil?
THANK YOU!
Ralphie loves Mr Blonde:
"Are you gonna bark all day little doggie, or are you gonna bite?"
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/vidrat/
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bunnicula
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posted on January 21, 2004 07:32:12 AM new
http://www.bottlebooks.com/pontil_medicines.htm
Pontil medicines are medicine bottles made primarily between the years 1830-1860. they are called "Pontil" because of the way they were made.
The base of the bottle has a "pontil" scar made by an iron rod tipped with hot glass. This rod was attached to the base of the bottle to hold the bottle while another one of the glassblowers formed the neck and lip of the bottle. When the rod was detached, or broken off, it left the sharp pontil mark.
Other names for the pontil mark are a punty mark, pontil scar. Polished pontils were pontil marks that were ground off then polished smooth. Iron pontils (much rarer in medicines) left an iron residue, sometimes black sometimes reddish embedded in the glass on the base of the bottle. By 1865, Glassblowers had figured out a way to form the neck and lip without leaving the pontil scar thus making it easy for us to determine the age of the bottles with such marks. Note: Some reproductions and modern bottles have pontil marks if they were made in the old way.
Censorship, like charity, should begin at home; but unlike charity, it should end there --Clare Booth Luce
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ltray
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posted on January 21, 2004 08:23:44 AM new
Well, Ralphie, as you said, there were hundreds, no thousands, no gazzillions of these gin bottle that were "drink and sink".
The gin was used as ships ballast on the voyage out. (It kept the sailors happy). And then when the ship arrived at the point of lading, the bottles were pushed over board for better paying cargo.
They are so common that the market for them now consists mainly of people who want to boast "I have a 300 year old gin bottle".
Unless you have an unusual color or shape, or a very good ad writter, you can expect $10 or less on these.
I'm serious on the story here. Look up Ancient grecian urn. Sailors have been using wine vessels for centuries for ballast.
THIS POST HAS BEEN MADE BY THE PROUD OWNER OF SEVERAL 300 YEAR OLD GIN BOTTLES!!
BTW, I am by no means an expert. I learned about all of this from a bottle collector I used to date.
[ edited by ltray on Jan 21, 2004 08:27 AM ]
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ltray
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posted on January 22, 2004 12:31:04 PM new
Hey Ralghie, I didn't mean to scare you off yesterday with my comments.
Have any pics of the bottles yet? Maybe you have a rare amethyst or aqua? Or a special pontil or even a glass stamp.
Come on, roll em' out and let's see what ya got!
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tomwiii
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posted on January 22, 2004 01:45:00 PM new
Nice kitty-kat trademark (Serval)? Does anybody know if these bottoms are "pontil?"
THANK YOU!
Ralphie loves Mr Blonde:
"Are you gonna bark all day little doggie, or are you gonna bite?"
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/vidrat/
[ edited by tomwiii on Jan 22, 2004 01:46 PM ]
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ltray
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posted on January 22, 2004 02:27:02 PM new
Hi Tom, is that a hole I see in the bottom of those? That is strange. To answer your question, no those are not pontil bottoms. They appear to be molded.
Neck looks right with the applied rim. "Applied" means the neck had a hot glass wrap added after the bottle was finished.
Tha cat is kool! And embossing is good. "Embossed" is when the makers name is applied in the mold and these appear to be mold blown. Can you see any traces of seams on the sides that are not embossed or on the corners?
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ltray
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posted on January 22, 2004 02:32:34 PM new
Not be any means a definitive list of pontils, but a good start...
http://www.antiquebottles.com/bottoms/
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tomwiii
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posted on January 22, 2004 02:42:41 PM new
No hole -- it's like a little pimple!
Well, now I can't age these suckers for beans!
The necks do NOT have the seams, but the bases aren't pontil!
Now I can't decide how old they are!
The engineer who got these in Nigeria, told me that the kids dived for them & sold them to visitors -- gawds, I hope these ain't repros! Although, they do have GREAT BUBBLES!
Ralphie loves Mr Blonde:
"Are you gonna bark all day little doggie, or are you gonna bite?"
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/vidrat/
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max40
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posted on January 22, 2004 02:50:33 PM new
I'm no expert on case gins, but you have some VERY interesting bottles. Most of the case gins I've seen have no lettering. Your bottles date to around 1900-1915. Maybe slightly older.
Life is not a dress rehearsal
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kiara
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posted on January 22, 2004 02:51:35 PM new
These are case gin bottles and contained gin from Holland usually. I think they were blown in wooden molds and the one with the indented bottom may have been a cup-bottom mold.
This info is just off the top of my blonde head and may be right or wrong. 
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ltray
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posted on January 22, 2004 02:54:21 PM new
My bet would be after 1860 to 1910, but its real hard to say since I'm not an expert. Plus I rely a lot upon just the "feel" of a bottle when I handle it. Once you've handled enough glass , you can almost judge the age by weight and feel and then use the identify mold marks and makers style to date it.
I think you can probably do well with these just because of the interesting embossing.
Plus there is the best appraisal of all... list on eBay!
I tried to google serval bottle, but had no luck... That cat intiques me. I bet it will interest others too. Plus the olive color is great! Just make sure your pics are as close to the real color as you can get. It is amazing to me how the slight color difference in a canning jar can mean the difference between a $100 and $800.00!
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max40
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posted on January 22, 2004 03:14:43 PM new
Example of a pontiled case gin. In this case the pontil rod was made of glass. Iron pontiled bottles will have a greyish dimple depression in the base.
[ edited by max40 on Jan 22, 2004 03:16 PM ]
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tomwiii
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posted on January 22, 2004 03:39:11 PM new
THANKS to yowse guys (& gals!)!
Ralphie loves Mr Blonde:
"Are you gonna bark all day little doggie, or are you gonna bite?"
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/vidrat/
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tomwiii
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posted on January 23, 2004 06:10:41 AM new
Yippeeee! THANK YOU 1&all!
Listed kitty-kat last night & got 2 bids already!
Ralphie is DELERIOUS with JOY!
 -pup!
Ralphie loves Mr Blonde:
"Are you gonna bark all day little doggie, or are you gonna bite?"
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/vidrat/
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ltray
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posted on January 23, 2004 10:45:12 AM new
YEAH Ralphie!!!
Quick, list them all!!! Might want to check though... Is it African Tea Co, or African Trading Co???
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tomwiii
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posted on January 23, 2004 10:51:23 AM new
Oh poop!
Good question!
They all are marked "African T Co" & I ASS-U-med the T was TEA???!!!
As Ralphie said after helping his Daddy change the tire: "Oh, FUDGE..."
Ralphie loves Mr Blonde:
"Are you gonna bark all day little doggie, or are you gonna bite?"
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/vidrat/
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tomwiii
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posted on January 26, 2004 03:32:17 AM new
I listed three more & the collectors are banging on my door!
Here's a delimena: one that looked like a LION to me should actually be listed as a BUFFALO, and, according to one collector, is valued at $200!
It already has 1 bid at 19.99 under the mis-labeled title!
Should I cancel his bid & revise??
Oh! Quandry, quandry!
On a brighter note: KITTY is up to $42
Ralphie loves Mr Blonde:
"Are you gonna bark all day little doggie, or are you gonna bite?"
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/vidrat/
[ edited by tomwiii on Jan 26, 2004 03:32 AM ]
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rarebourbon
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posted on January 26, 2004 07:49:03 AM new
I would definitely add something to your description stating that the "pimple" is NOT a hole -- because it sure looks like one in the photo. You say "no chips, no cracks" but that doesn't cover holes!
Very pretty piece! Good luck!
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tomwiii
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posted on January 28, 2004 06:23:08 AM new
Ralphie's been a'singing & a'dancing -- his KITTY-CAT bottle is up to 18 bids/$115 with 1 day left
He is one SMART doggy with a SUPER nose for glass & pottery
Ralphie loves Mr Blonde:
"Are you gonna bark all day little doggie, or are you gonna bite?"
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/vidrat/
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earthmum
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posted on January 28, 2004 07:23:48 AM new
Tom - you have the best situation with your kitty bottle - two newbie avid collectors that are in a bidding war!! Lucky Ralph, lucky Tom!!
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parklane64
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posted on January 28, 2004 10:32:31 PM new
Pretty good auction action. You should get some two buck chuck and Ralphie should get two chuck bones. Good finds.
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glassgrl
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posted on January 31, 2004 12:01:46 PM new
gee Ralphie did really well sniffing out these bottles huh? Is he doing the happy dance?
BTW tomwiii - do you know how to blow a bosun's whistle?
I LOVE Endicia! You will too – Click here!
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tomwiii
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posted on January 31, 2004 12:55:52 PM new
Isn't that the trick question that got PeeWee Herman arrested??
Ralphie loves Mr Blonde:
"Are you gonna bark all day little doggie, or are you gonna bite?"
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/vidrat/
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Libra63
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posted on January 31, 2004 01:07:40 PM new
Ralphie has been at it again. What do you do let him run loose in the alley to snife out the good stuff?
Yes, I would cancell that bid and explain to your buyer what has happened then relist it. But I would allow the bidder ro rebid.
The name of the game is trying to get the best buck for your items and if you don't think it's a lion cancell and relist and see what happens.
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ltray
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posted on January 31, 2004 01:10:00 PM new
of course he does. Hmmm, and just why did they kick you out of the Marines???
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glassgrl
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posted on January 31, 2004 01:17:54 PM new
no REALLY! we picked up a very old bosun whistle today but by just blowing into it, it doesn't make much of a sound. thought maybe there was a trick to it.
it looks exactly like this one:cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3700429584&category=4399
your auctions are doing stupendous! do you really take Ralphie with you when you go bargin hunting? our yorkie goes with us everywhere, but he only shops for himself, ie BONES and BALLS!
I LOVE Endicia! You will too – Click here!
[ edited by glassgrl on Jan 31, 2004 01:21 PM ]
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