posted on July 17, 2004 09:06:21 AM new
Hi Everyone,
Just received an email this am concerning an auction I'm running for a cameo. The cameo is of a mother and her child. I listed it as Vintage Cameo of a Mother and Child. The email I received was from an individual from *** Enterprises stating that he has a trademark on the words and phrase "Mother and Child" and would I please either change the auction title or remove the auction completely. He stated that he was giving me the chance to change it myself prior to going the VERO route.
Does this sound right to you?
Can someone actually trademark an everyday phrase like "Mother and Child"?
That's like saying no one can use the phrase "Peanut Butter and Jelly" or "Night and Day", etc.
I'm not pulling the auction nor am I going to change the wording. I'm going to wait to see what ebay does with this type of VERO complaint. If they pull the auction I'm going to argue the point.
posted on July 17, 2004 09:21:16 AM new
Hi Capo Lady, thankfully I never had any experience with the VERO process. I honestly think your hunches and instincts are correct. I was always under the impression that the person who initiated any offending auctions were automatically contacted through the Vendio/Ebay process.
I do know they offer a list of participants in this Vero program. I am sure you can check out if this person is who he claims he is. If it were me I would have a hard time restraining myself not to write this person back but I feel you are doing the right thing by holding off. I hope this does not ruin your day.
reenie
I don't get even....I get even better Jimmy Hoffa
posted on July 17, 2004 09:37:31 AM new
I think someone is just messing with you and your auction for something to do. Must be pretty bored! Trademark or not, you are using the term descriptively. There's a ton of items on eBay with "mother and child" in the description. Puleeeeeez! Do let us know if you hear from VERO, have a nice cup of tea (or coffee), and relax.
posted on July 17, 2004 09:46:08 AM new
No, they're not just messing with you.
Yes, the everyday phrase "mother and child" can be trademarked, but only with respect to a narrow usage (jewelry). In this case, the wanker who sent you the email sells jewelry. Awful jewelry. Truly ugly jewelry. I am sure your cameo is much prettier than his m***** a** c**** design.
How do I know all this? Simple. He hit one of my auctions two years ago for the same reason, same phrase.
earthmum: There may be a ton of items using the phrase, but this individual does in fact hold the trademark for m***** a** c**** with respect to jewelry. I looked it up.
Now, if you want to sell "mother and child loaves of bread" or "mother and child matching handcuffs" or somesuch, he has no basis for complaint. (Unless you consider handcuffs to be jewelry. Depends on your social circle, I guess.)
capolady: You should pull the auction. Not because his rights are being violated -- I have little respect for this man -- but because if you don't, that's one VeRO strike against you. You don't want that.
WAIT! Don't forget: There would have been a section of his notification where he informs you ever so kindly (NOT) that he has also trademarked variations on m***** a** c****. You're far safer just pulling the auction and using completely different words when you relist it later on.
This feels like a humiliating, dehumanizing experience and your first instinct is to tell him to go pound sand. (That would be my second and third instinct as well.) Clearly this individual has a hate on for eBay auction sales, since there is no way on this planet that the sale of your cameo is going to affect sales of his cruddy jewelry. Unfortunately, owning the trademark gives him the right to throw his weight around.
--
(edited because as usual I forgot something)
(edited again because I forgot something else)
[ edited by iareateacher on Jul 17, 2004 09:48 AM ]
[ edited by iareateacher on Jul 17, 2004 09:54 AM ]
posted on July 17, 2004 10:16:19 AM new
I checked the US patent office website for Mother and child. There are a few patents for this term. Quickly checking, found one for shampoo and one for jewelry but there are more. I hope this helps
posted on July 17, 2004 11:10:34 AM new
I saw that one. There are a few others as well. I am trying to find out if there is more info give than stated on that page.
I am sorry, I can't work on this anymore right now. I have to take the dog to the vet. Maybe someone can pick up from here. Here is the list of all the mother and child patents
posted on July 17, 2004 03:17:21 PM new
How does iareateacher know who wrote the e-mail? And if this guy really has a complaint and has a trademark on the phrase, why did he bother to e-mail you? Seems like he would have just done the VERo thing.
You not using the term as a Brand Name anyway. Your using it in a descriptive way. I wouldn't pull the auction myself. I would make him prove he has a right to ask you to.
Debbie
Be kind. Everyone is fighting their own secret battles.
...Author Unknown
posted on July 17, 2004 03:43:38 PM newHow does iareateacher know who wrote the e-mail?
You know, as informative as these boards can be, I really hate having to repeat myself for the benefit of those who can't be bothered to read the whole thread.
I know who wrote the e-mail because the VERY SAME PERSON CONTACTED ME in January 2003 over an auction I had that contained "mother and child" in the title.
There is only one trademark holder of that term for jewelry. Ergo, it is the same man. And it makes sense that there would only be one anal-compulsive person hassling harmless eBay sellers.
why did he bother to e-mail you? Seems like he would have just done the VERo thing.
Sigh. That IS the VeRO thing. VeRO rights holders lose none of their rights by emailing the seller to order them to take down the auction.
capolady, if you want to listen to these know-nothings, go right ahead, but it's your eBay account at stake...not theirs.
posted on July 17, 2004 04:06:17 PM new
iareateacher..I read the thread. I was simply asking how you knew because I didn't see it anywhere. I truly apologize for missing it in your reply that he had e-mailed you.
Sigh. That IS the VeRO thing. VeRO rights holders lose none of their rights by emailing the seller to order them to take down the auction.
capolady, if you want to listen to these know-nothings, go right ahead, but it's your eBay account at stake...not theirs.
I am a VERo rights holder. ARE YOU?
You will not be kicked off eBay if he turns you in. You can question his right to have your auction closed. If he can't prove it, he is the one in trouble. Here is what he will have to sign when he reports you.
Dear eBay:
I, the undersigned, state UNDER PENALTY OF PERJURY that
* I am, the owner, or an agent authorized to act on behalf of the owner,
of certain intellectual property rights ("IP Owner";
* I have a good faith belief that the listings identified below (by
item number) offer items or contain materials that are not authorized by
the IP Owner, its agent, or the law, and therefore infringe the IP
Owner's rights; and
* The information in this notice is accurate.
Please act expeditiously to remove the listings identified in the
addendum.
You will have to have at least 3 violations to get NARU'd.
Listen to Tom, he makes a lot of sense.
Be kind. Everyone is fighting their own secret battles.
...Author Unknown
posted on July 17, 2004 04:08:32 PM new
it just doesn't seem right to have that copyrighted. There ought to be a way around that, like by just putting mother/child or madonna and child. I would think (I haven't read but one of the copyrights) that it's the Mother AND Child that is copyrighted. The guy can't own the whole english language can he?
posted on July 17, 2004 04:18:23 PM new
I listed it as Vintage Cameo of a Mother and Child.
If this is the way she listed it, she can't be violating anything. She is just describing it. The key words are "of a". If she listed it as "A Mother and Child Cameo" like that is the name of it, she may have a problem.
I still think if he had a leg to stand on, he would have gone through VERo and not bothered to e-mail.
Be kind. Everyone is fighting their own secret battles.
...Author Unknown
posted on July 17, 2004 04:34:28 PM new
Can you say Mother plus Child, or vise versa.
Mother with beautiful child or beautiful mother with young child. I think you can put a few words in your title that will reflect the piece that you have.
It the same with Shabby Chic. You can't use that and they just rearrange everything so that both names are in the title not just next to themselves.
When you get right down to it some sellers are greedy and don't like others to succeed but I know you will be able to list your piece and get a good price. Cameo alone or maybe if it is a Shell Cameo will bring buyers to your auction. Good Luck
posted on July 18, 2004 01:50:17 AM new
What a pain in butt for you, capolady! ... I would just add different words within the title, as others suggested, to make the three words 'mother and child' not appear right next to each other ... that is what most sellers did with the 'shabby chic' controversy.
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