posted on June 16, 2005 06:02:35 AM new
I might be premature on one of these, but...
Up for your consideration is buyer #1: lucy585. Receives piece, then sends email that the hand has been restored, a chipped this, etc. But, now that she looks, this was seen in the photo, so it wasn't shipping damage. Checked her feedback, and has some negatives for busting people's chops for refunds. I'll see how this plays out, but the feedback recommended running for the hills if you see her name show up on your screen; I think she deserves a presumption of guilt.
Then, there is #2: kirynt. Wins $35 auction for some Fisher Price little people. Sends me this email: "Just to let you know prior to my paying for this item , I have sent an email to EBAY regarding your fantom bidder "djk3217" If you would like to withdrawl my higher bid I may consider it , but otherwise we can wait for EBAY investigation. Thank you".
I email her (twice) and basically indicate that if she means shill bidding, she is off base. djk3217 has purchased from me in the past, and she and I have exchanged 6 feedback, which we wouldn't do if we were trying to be secretive. She appears to buy only from me, but I can't help that. She is local and picks items up to avoid shipping fees. She's a sweet lady, a little dotty in a charming way, and she was very grateful that I let her off the hook once when she bid on something that was really not appropriate for her. I don't know why she doesn't bid on other people's auctions, but that's not a crime or outside eBay's rules.
I emailed and spoke with my account rep, the lovely Molly at eBay. I didn't want to complete the transaction; I feel that I have been maligned and that kirynt's email comes very close, if not over, the line of extortion. eBay says I have to follow through if paid.
Then I get an email from kirynt saying she hasn't heard back from me (!), and wants to come to an agreement so she can get this birthday present from her son. I get her contact information, and call her.
She sounds insane. It is "clear as day" that I have used shill bidders, and in fact used 3 of them in a previous auction that she won from me a few days prior to this one. eBay's investigator agrees that there is a "suspicious pattern." Why, according to her, on the previous auction, there were three bidders with less than 5 feedback and they all created their IDs on the same day. I tell her that if it's true, it's kind of weird, but she must think I must have nothing but time on my hands to create 3 fake IDs to bid on some $41 item. I looked it up, and 2 of the 8 bidders did create their ID on June 6 -- coincidence, but a bit more likely than, say, winning the lottery. I told her that on the same night that her auction closed, I had 2 used Louis Vuitton bags close ($400 average); if I were a shill bidder, wouldn't I have spent my time there?
Anyway, unfortunately she paid, so I shipped. I have not heard from eBay (other than Molly). What a serious waste of time and emotion. I'm sure that this will end up as a non-event to eBay, but I must say that being accused of being a crook is an emotional experience for me. This is my second time, but the first time didn't include a phone conversation.
kirynt told me that she was becoming an eBay seller now. In a variant of the old Arab curse, I hoped that she would get many buyers just like her bidding on her auctions
I'm still very very leary of saying Near Mint - Mint Condition - Minty or anything like that. That's the one that always comes back and bites you in the behind.........
When I don't say MINT or NEAR MINT or EXCELLENT or whatever, they always write me emails asking. I don't know how to get away from that subjective aspect of description. I do sometimes include a zillion photos and state that the bidder should decide for themselves.
posted on June 16, 2005 07:02:05 AM new
Man, can't hope for better photos than in that other auction LOL. There's one in there that I can't even see what it attempted to be of.
By the way Glassgrl, I couldn't find a suitable taco warmer (you recommended that a while ago), but I managed to get two syrofoam rings at a craft store that do the same basic trick for jewelry photos. I don't know if I ever properly thanked you.
posted on June 16, 2005 07:51:28 AM new
you have very nice pictures! Waah - I want the Estee Lauder Yorkie perfume but it's always waaaay more than I'm willing to pay for something so small! Your pictures on your EL poodle are great.
Hotcupoftea (don't know if you're a longtime VD'er or not) sold a lot of fine china and such. She's the one that taught me about saying the Mint condition. She said what I might consider to be mint, might not be mint to a serious collector. I just always say it's very nice but please view the enlarged pictures for themselves. And I say the pictures really DO get bigger since so many don't. I'd rather understate something than overstate the condition. And I always say that if the picture is still not big enough that I'm happy to email them even larger pictures. Never had anyone ask for that though.
posted on June 16, 2005 08:17:48 AM new
Cash: I sure hope you've blocked that crazy-lady bidder who's local! She's an accident waiting to happen, thinking you're using shills - AND knowing where you live. I don't think her small purchases would be worth the hassle for me.
____________________________________
Here's a spooky quote: "Should any political party attempt to abolish social security, unemployment insurance, and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of that party again in our political history. There is a tiny splinter group, of course, that believes you can do these things. Among them are ... a few Texas oil millionaires, and an occasional politician or business man from other areas. Their number is negligible and they are stupid." -- Republican President Dwight D. Eisenhower, Nov. 8, 1954
posted on June 16, 2005 08:34:13 AM new
roadsmith: the local lady is the one who the crazy lady thinks is my shill. She's entirely harmless; very sweet actually. The crazy lady is in Washington state, probably belongs to a militia
Both of the buyers mentioned have been BBL'ed.
Glassgrl: Those poodles are on consignment, but I'd be happy to give you a 20% discount on a poodle in consideration of your help with my photography. Since I've sold so many of these things, that's what my commission is down to on each subsequent one but that's okay, since I am simply restarting each auction as the previous one ends. I haven't run out of them yet, but I can see the bottom of the box that they originally came in. I have shipped those to the UK and elsewhere; they must speak to the buyers in a way that I, a male, don't quite get.
posted on June 16, 2005 08:45:29 AM new
Whatever happened to HotCupOfTea? I just remember the stories about feeding her cats on antique china because it had a flaw.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
No, I'm saying -- I'm merely -- I'm saying what I'm saying. I don't know why I'm always having people say, are you trying to say -- you know what you can do if you want to know what I'm saying is listen to what I'm saying. What I'm saying is what I said ...
posted on June 16, 2005 09:34:23 AM new
Claude - I am in no way accusing you of complicity...but do you send your clients the auction number so they can "watch" their items? Is there a chance THEY (without your knowledge) could be bidding to drive the price up?
-------------------------------------
That didn't happen in this case. I do send out the auction number (that's part of the draw of doing it this way; a B&M consignment shop can tell you your item sold for whatever, and you can't confirm it; additionally many people consign with me for the entertainment value of following the auction more than the money -- they don't need the money as much as they're bored!).
Anyway, on the two occasions that I can think of where I noticed a consignor bidding on their own stuff, I've called them and told them that it probably met the definition of shill bidding and shouldn't continue. They had both already been outbid by the time I reached them, so I didn't make them retract the bid. As a practical matter, I don't usually know whether or not the bidders are my consignors.
There were an additional 2 cases, involving two consignors whose eBay IDs I didn't know until the end of the auction, who had won their own items. I told them that the auction was successfully concluded, that I would take my commission, they would get their item back, and that I didn't think that our "styles" of doing business were a good match. One of them actually had good stuff, but if it gets to the point where I need money that badly, I'll go into a different form of crime.
Maybe I should add a clause to the contract I make everyone sign that they won't bid on the auction. The contract is already long enough, but I guess it can't hurt too much to add it.
posted on June 16, 2005 10:19:44 AM new
It could cover your tuckus if it ever does happen and ebay investigates and discovers that the internet IP addy of newly registered bidders belong to your clients.
-------------------------------------
posted on June 16, 2005 11:17:29 AM new
I guess it can't hurt. I've added the following text:
6. Adherence to eBay rules
Both parties to this agreement will conduct themselves in a manner consistent with eBay's rules of conduct. Specifically, it is agreed that Consignor may not bid on any auctions started by Consignee on Consignor's behalf, an action commonly referred to as "shill bidding."
That will have to be close enough; I'm not paying an attorney to turn it into perfect language (that's probably 2 pages long).
posted on June 16, 2005 01:04:59 PM new
I've just had some nice emails with one of the two: lucy585. She's a tough cookie, but I don't know if she deserves BBL.
posted on June 17, 2005 05:04:05 AM new
Your auction on the porcelain piece says, "This piece is in near mint condition; there are no chips, cracks, or repairs. There are a few discolorations"
If there has indeed been a repair, then you need to do a full refund regardless of whether or not the repair is visible in the pictures.
Just for the record, I can't see a repair on piece when using my laptop screen. As a collector, I would be extremely upset to receive a "near mint" piece that had any type of damage. Any detectable repair would be unacceptable also.
Not trying to be a hard azz, but most people willing to pay decent money for a collectible do have standards.
To most real antique dealers, mint and near mint are reserved for pieces with NO damage such as chips, nicks, repairs or cracks. Only slight shelf wear is allowable. Something else to keep in mind especially if dealing with high $$$ porcelain, ceramics or pottery, most repairs are detectable with a black light. If you sell a piece which says No repairs and the buyer finds a repair under black light, you would most likely be expected to refund the full transaction.
As for kirynt, she is a flake. Tell her bu,bye. Also make sure that you mark each figure you send her
( you DO have a black light marker by now , don't you?? <g>. From looking at her buying habits, I would be wary of her trying to swap some damaged pieces from her collection and demanding a refund.
Since I first posted, the porcelain lady and I have corresponded in a civil, almost friendly, manner. She acknowledged that she couldn't fault me for missing the hand repair, she herself said it was "expertly done."
Of course I'm giving her a full refund. I will relist it without the "near mint" indication, and will point out the repairs.
I don't sell that much porcelain, but I guess I should go get a black light.
posted on June 17, 2005 06:26:05 AM new
claude, blacklight is great to check for vaseline uranium glass pieces too ...
I had a milky custard color of glass lamp globe/shade a couple months ago, got in a box lot of glass lamp shades at an auction ($14/lot) ... brought it home and thought to test the custard glass one under the blacklight, just on a hunch, altho I'd never come across any milky custard/green uranium glass before. ... I was pleased it was a glowing under that bulb, and could title/list it as such, and it brought over a hundred dollars.
And Little Miss Snit Kyrynt?! If she keeps it up, I'd tell her my lawyer might have to send her a letter all about how unacceptable slander is nowadays and always.
kirynt left me positive feedback for her first purchase from me (one which she also accused me (on the phone) of shilling on, meaning that I apparently shill on all items related to Fisher Price). She's either the most forgiving person on the planet, or her medication kicked in.
posted on June 17, 2005 08:32:54 PM new
Claude...Even if she leaves positive feedback on the second purchase, I would still block her from further bidding. Her attitude and accusations in the email and on the phone should be enough to tip you off that this is either an unstable, or very volatile, individual. Even though the two auctions came to a pretty good chunk of change, you can't rule out the possibility that her medications will run out at the exact same time she wins another of your auctions, and that the next time may not have a happy ending.
A $75.00 solid state device will always blow first to protect a 25 cent fuse ~ Murphy's Law
. From looking at her buying habits, I would be wary of her trying to swap some damaged pieces from her collection and demanding a refund.