posted on June 24, 2005 03:52:41 PM new
We were the high bidders on what was advertised as an enameled pendant on ebay. The seller is in London and we are in Los Angeles. We paid promptly using our credit card through PayPal. Two days ago (Wednesday), item arrived using Royal Mail delivery with signature required. Pendant turned out to be an altered earring and there was no way you could have known this from the photos. Before we buy anything on ebay we always ask about damage, repairs, missing pieces, shipping charges etc. and this piece seemed fine.
We immediately emailed the seller (who appears to sell lots of jewelry) and said we would be returning the item per his TOS. These state the item may be returned within seven days. He responded indignantly, discussing the amount of research he does etc., etc., etc. and now says he must receive the item within seven days. He added he would not reimburse us for any shipping costs (which are significant).
We can argue about the difference between returning something within seven days and his actual receipt within seven days, and also whether we should get our shipping costs refunded (I offered to split them and he refuses). Bottom line – I smell trouble with this guy and I’d be surprised if he really receives the item in seven days because, in part, we took the time to email him first and will be mailing it back tonight (Friday).
Since the item was not as described can we mail the item tonight and immediately file a complaint with PayPal to get back all of the money we paid to this seller, including the shipping costs? If so, what do we tell PayPal? We’ll eat the return shipping charges.
I’ll add that right after we paid, he gave us a positive feedback. We have left nothing yet for him.
posted on June 24, 2005 05:32:59 PM new
Try filing with Paypal. I think they will cover it. If not, then file a chargeback with your CC. How much $$ is involved?
posted on June 24, 2005 06:15:17 PM new
The problem is that with PayPals "Not As Described" claim, you need to make the claim then let them make the decision to grant it. Once that is done you must return the item in a manner which is trackable online which generally means express. It's going to be a judgement game...do you want to pay $5 and chance that it will arrive next week thru Global Priority and the seller will honor the refund or do you want to play out the PayPal game and knowingly sacrifice around $20.
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No, I'm saying -- I'm merely -- I'm saying what I'm saying. I don't know why I'm always having people say, are you trying to say -- you know what you can do if you want to know what I'm saying is listen to what I'm saying. What I'm saying is what I said ...
posted on June 24, 2005 06:35:38 PM new
Fenix -- I would agree with you BUT, this was an international sale which *I think* means that paypal will automatically side with the buyer. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
posted on June 24, 2005 06:37:07 PM new
if you say 'item not as described' paypal would not do anything,you have to say 'item significantly not as described' ,then paypal may grant you a chance of winning the case.
Ebay being such a goofy place ,a pendant which was one time an earring,is this not as described or significantly not as described?
If it is not a lot of money,i would just keep it!!
-sig file -------
Eat grass,kick ass,never go belly up!
posted on June 24, 2005 06:56:25 PM new
The Brits actually have better buyer protection than we do, at least for the time being. They also have more affordable tracking methods. As long as they ship using Recorded Delivery they are protected and recorded delivery is pretty cheap compared to our available methods.
Thing is that Art cannot claim non receipt anyway since the seller now has email records of their receipt of the item.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
No, I'm saying -- I'm merely -- I'm saying what I'm saying. I don't know why I'm always having people say, are you trying to say -- you know what you can do if you want to know what I'm saying is listen to what I'm saying. What I'm saying is what I said ...
posted on June 25, 2005 12:23:41 PM new
Thanks Guys. We decided not to ship the earring and instead took your advice and wrote PayPal. It appears the specific phrase they want to see is “item substantially not as described” and we lavishly used it in our complaint. We also included a few of the seller’s ramblings hoping to discredit him.
Here’s how we described the problem in our email to the seller and in our complaint to PayPal:
Someone flattened the end of the ear loop and bent it inward. It cannot be worn this way since the loop is open which would allow it to slip off a chain. Nor could it be soldered closed because of the enameling on the loop.
We’re not talking big money here – only about $150. But, we’ve had problems with a few overseas purchases lately and I guess, out of frustration, this was the last straw.
When the seller reads the PayPal complaint he’s going to flip. I’ll keep you posted.
posted on June 25, 2005 05:19:14 PM new
Stop - just out of curiosity, how do you take a description of an earring that has been purposely altered and falsely marketed as a necklace pendant and interpret it as "defective".
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
No, I'm saying -- I'm merely -- I'm saying what I'm saying. I don't know why I'm always having people say, are you trying to say -- you know what you can do if you want to know what I'm saying is listen to what I'm saying. What I'm saying is what I said ...
posted on June 25, 2005 07:08:06 PM new
an earring that has been purposely altered and falsely marketed as a necklace pendant and interpret it as "defective".
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he said/she said situation here,Ebay is where you find goofy stuff,there are people who just look for weird unusual bizarre stuff all the time,like that pizza slice,like that ghost in a jar,like the bathroom paint ,like his girlfreind undie after they make love.
In the case of ghost in a jar,how do we know he has shipped the ghost ,how do we know buyer has received the ghost,would USPS DC proof anything??
and is the ghost defective just because he has not taken a bath for over a hundred years??
-sig file -------
Eat grass,kick ass,never go belly up!
posted on June 25, 2005 07:14:36 PM new
And that has what to do with the actual question?
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No, I'm saying -- I'm merely -- I'm saying what I'm saying. I don't know why I'm always having people say, are you trying to say -- you know what you can do if you want to know what I'm saying is listen to what I'm saying. What I'm saying is what I said ...
- Ann Coulter
[ edited by fenix03 on Jun 25, 2005 07:15 PM ]
posted on June 25, 2005 09:41:03 PM new
Fenixo3,
it is buyer's words against the seller,seller sold a piece of jewelry as a pendant and now in the opinion of the buyer,it is more of an earring pretending to be a pendant!!aka an IMPOSTER!!
Do you think any Indian is going to get involved in this he said/she said-pendant /earring controversy??with their infatuation with their gods and goddesses-Shiva who is the great destroyer,first he destroys and then he rebuilds;Ganesh who is half elephant and half human,or is it all elephant? i forgot.
Then the many consorts of this god and that god,and that monkey god Tenuman??and the mighty Kali?
It looks like we all need to refresh our Indian mythology .
-sig file -------
Eat grass,kick ass,never go belly up!
posted on June 25, 2005 09:44:14 PM new
I bet Paypal would rule as follows-
If an earring can become a pendant,then lets wear the pendant as an earring,problem solved!!
-sig file -------
Eat grass,kick ass,never go belly up!
posted on June 25, 2005 09:50:43 PM new
Do you actually use PayPal?
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
No, I'm saying -- I'm merely -- I'm saying what I'm saying. I don't know why I'm always having people say, are you trying to say -- you know what you can do if you want to know what I'm saying is listen to what I'm saying. What I'm saying is what I said ...
posted on June 26, 2005 07:34:52 AM new
I don't blame you ArtNouveau - $150 is a lot to lose. Sounds like they knew what they were doing and were just being deceptive.
posted on July 27, 2005 01:56:50 PM new
It looks like PayPal found in our favor. Now we have to ship the piece back to the UK with a tracking number. Even though we have to eat the return charges, anything we can recover from this is better than nothing. Can anyone recommend a cheap shipping method? I don’t care how long it takes. According to the instructions below, it just has to be shipped within 10 days.
My guess is the seller will refuse delivery so the tracking method should at least indicate that delivery was attempted.
We have determined that you are due a refund on this PayPal transaction, including shipping and handling, once the item, in its original condition, is returned to the seller. Please note that we may be unable to make a full recovery of your payment from the seller, as we are limited by the terms of our buyer protection policies. Before returning the item to the seller, please read the buyer protection policies in our User Agreement(https://www.paypal.com/ua). Please note that you are responsible for shipping and handling costs for the returned merchandise.
The seller has provided the following shipping address:
xxxxx
Please log in below to provide tracking information for the item you are returning within 10 calendar days. The seller will also receive the tracking information for this item. When the shipment is verified by PayPal, the refund will be issued to you. If you do not provide this information to PayPal, the investigation will end and the claim will be cancelled.
posted on July 27, 2005 02:42:33 PM new
if your not happy with the item, you must return them, and ensure that you get a receipt of postage. Also file your claim with paypal, you will get a full refund, however return of postage is not given, which can be quite a lot sometimes.
posted on July 27, 2005 02:46:53 PM new
I believe the only way you can track an international shipment is to send it via global express mail or fed ex.
posted on July 27, 2005 02:49:30 PM new
if a seller sells an item with false listings, you'd pay via paypal, you should get a full refund !! however you cant get back the return postage cost can you ??
posted on July 27, 2005 02:55:27 PM new
Ewora is correct - the only current form of shipping from the US to Europe that has the proper required tracking option is an Express method. Generally USPSs is the least expensive of the carriers for small packages such as a pendant that was an earring in its former life would require.
Good Luck!
AV - PayPal will not refund the return postage but will return the entire initial payment including the original postage. The only hitch in the giddyup is if the seller empties and abandons heir account. PayPal cannot dip into the CC/Bank accounts of it's memebers anymore (not they they ever could with their European members). If the seeler were to do this, Art would be out initial payment, return postage and the item in question.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
No, I'm saying -- I'm merely -- I'm saying what I'm saying. I don't know why I'm always having people say, are you trying to say -- you know what you can do if you want to know what I'm saying is listen to what I'm saying. What I'm saying is what I said ...
posted on July 27, 2005 04:13:52 PM new
for that kind of money,i wont be surprised paypal has already restricted the fund as soon as she filed complaint .
so the money is there for refund if buyer can proof return with online trackable delivery.
a small item like that,use USPS express mail
-sig file -------
Eat grass,kick ass,never go belly up!
