posted on June 14, 2008 05:49:48 PM new
Hello All,
I've had a dispute issued over the weight of a gold necklace. Here's the information so far:
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Total Messages: 4
From Seller: Sharon Johnson on 6/14/2008 17:35 PDT
Buyer wants me to refund the $150 BEFORE he closes dispute. PayPal rules say otherwise. I have suggested he return the chain in the same manner it was sent to him and I will refund in full. No answer yet.
From Seller: Sharon Johnson on 6/14/2008 14:35 PDT
Buyer has contacted me, the seller, through My eBay, saying he will accept a $150 refund. Can we close the dispute with that and what happens next?
Please advise. Thanks,
Sharon Johnson
From Seller: Sharon Johnson on 6/14/2008 13:03 PDT
Dear Mr. Kizer, In the auction, I stated that the necklace weighed 1 oz. and approximately 31 grams.
I am also wondering why you want your refund in a cashier's check or money order since you paid with PayPal.
Another question - necklace was delivered to you on 6/5/08. It is now 6/14/08 - why the delay in this complaint and why didn't you contact me direct for an easier resolution?
If you will return the necklace, the original one I sent and I will know if it's been altered, I will return your payment.
Please respond today. Thanks.
Sharon Johnson
From Buyer: JOHN KIZER on 6/14/2008 12:39 PDT
BUYER CLAIMED 14KT GOLD NECKLACE WAS 31 GRAMS AND IT ONLY WEIGHS 21.4 GRAMS A DIFFERENCE OF 9.6 GRAMS A OVERPRICED BY $150.00'S. WOULD LIKE TO HAVE THIS PROBLEM RECTIFIED IN A CASHIER'S CHECK OR MONEY ORDER BY THE AMOUNT OF $150.00'S.
SINCERELY,
THE GOLDMAN44
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Buyer responded in an email that I needed to refund FIRST before he'd close the dispute.
PayPal advised me not to send him a refund direct; only through them.
My auction did say "approximately 31 grams" but I don't have a gram scale so I'm willing to comply. Just don't know what happens next.
Any information from you folks with your experience will help. Do I have to refund without his returning the item? That hardly seems fair.
posted on June 14, 2008 06:21:22 PM new
$150 wasn't the total price he paid, was it?
In other words, he wants $150 back and will keep the necklace?
I'd offer a complete refund, not partial, upon return of the necklace in the same condition as when it was sent.
Smell a rat.
Now, why are you stating even an approximate weight without knowing actual weight?
posted on June 14, 2008 06:25:17 PM new
I believe he has to return the necklace to you first before you refund. You should not refund until your item is returned. And I also think that paypal tells them also to send it back to you and then he can have his refund. And you refund him the way he paid you, if it was through paypal then that's how he gets his money back.
The same thing goes for when you buy an item on a web site. You have to return it first before they give you a refund. Shipping back to you is his responsibility.
I have a dispute right now also going with paypal. Buyer said not as described, he bought a NEW pair of binoculars from me. I asked him what the damage was since these were brand new, he didn't respond to me, he just went and filed with paypal.
Plus I had to ship it to him 2x and pay 4.70 each time because he had his old address listed with paypal. When I told him it came back to me he said, "just reship to this other address"
I'm waiting for paypal to decide who will win, but I did tell paypal that I would refund his money after he sent me back my binoculars.
I hope things go well for you and for me.
posted on June 14, 2008 06:37:39 PM new
I would have the postman wait while you open the box to make sure that the item is inside. Sometimes it isn't.
Thankfully, my idiot sent back a 1 pound package when he was returning a pool vacuum. Even PayPal agreed that, notwithstanding a tracking number that showed delivery, he had not returned the item.
posted on June 14, 2008 07:17:08 PM new
Some one claimed to have shipped a plasma TV set and he has the green DC to prove it!
He lost the dispute and posted his complaint on Paypalsuck.com
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Google does not hire stupid people.
posted on June 14, 2008 07:19:03 PM new
Good advice from the above. You might even want to ask PayPal to reserve the funds, but not release them, until you have received the merchandise back and confirmed that it is the same merchandise you shipped. Edited to add: do you, by chance, have a record of the shipping weight of the item? Perhaps you could extrapolate the weight of the necklace by subtracting the weight of the shipping material.
[ edited by pixiamom on Jun 14, 2008 07:31 PM ]
posted on June 14, 2008 07:20:03 PM new
Gold bidders on Ebay know their stuff,if you are not sure of the weight ,you should take it to a jeweler and let him weigh it for you.
Some of them have device to test for gold.
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Google does not hire stupid people.
posted on June 14, 2008 07:39:40 PM newYou might even want to ask PayPal to reserve the funds, but not release them, until you have received the merchandise back and confirmed that it is the same merchandise you shipped.
You haven't had a lot of PayPal disputes, apparently.
Once the buyer's DC shows the item has been received by you, PayPal refunds them. YOU have no control over it.
Sure, you can file an appeal if you get a brick back instead of a necklace. I've never won an appeal.
posted on June 14, 2008 07:49:35 PM new
You're right, Fluff, I haven't. I thought that freezing funds until disputes were settled gave sellers a chance to prove that items were not returned. Perhaps I am wrong.
posted on June 14, 2008 07:54:38 PM new
GeneralFunds,
I noticed you listed some other 14k yg pieces without stating the weight and those people have already left you positive feedback.
As you now know, it's safer not to claim any particular weight. However, if you do state the weight in grams you could get a better price. It's a tradeoff.
Gold buyers work with the refiners that pay highest for scrap. Since they know what the refiner will pay, their margin depends on what kind of deal they made for the jewelry. Shorting him 9.6 grams probably more than erased the profit he expected to get on this necklace.
posted on June 14, 2008 10:58:49 PM new
Thanks everyone for your replies.
Because this chain was heavier than all the others, I took a chance and weighed it on my postal scale. It was 1.1 oz. I used an online calculator to convert to grams. This part is definitely my mistake.
I'm curious about whether the buyer can keep the chain and still get the PayPal refund. Anyone know how that works?
posted on June 15, 2008 04:54:15 AM new
"I'm curious about whether the buyer can keep the chain and still get the PayPal refund. Anyone know how that works?"
I've wondered this same thing and asked before but no one seemed to know the answer.
I know if it's listed as a designer brand and it turns out to be a fake - they can keep the item and get the refund. Other than that, I don't know.
posted on June 15, 2008 05:50:59 AM new
Well paypal just contacted me with the following information. As usual the seller don't win. So I am out 2 x 4.70 for shipping this item to him.
This claim has been reviewed and it has been determined that a full refund
of the PayPal transaction (including shipping and handling) should be
awarded to the buyer once the item, in its original condition, is returned
to you. The buyer is responsible for shipping and handling costs related to
returning the item to you.
So it cost me 9.40 to ship out of my pocket, and I get back what he claims to be a damaged pair of binoculars and he gets all his money back.
As usual paypal comes through for the buyer and #$#$ the seller
posted on June 15, 2008 06:26:39 AM new
"I'm curious about whether the buyer can keep the chain and still get the PayPal refund. Anyone know how that works?"--------------
In your case,it is up to you,he is asking for a partial refund to make up for the shortfall in grams,he wants to keep the item.
If you go to Paypal now and issue him a partial refund,then he should close the dispute and Paypal would consider the case closed.
Once closed,it is a done deal,neither of you can reopen the case.
If this were a dispute going through the credit card issuer route-he returns the merchandise and you refuse to accept the item,then he will get to keep the item and the money too.
(Like Fluffy said,some of these bidders work with refiner ,they have their set up to test for gold and weigh the item in troy ounces.
So next time if you are not sure,go to a jeweler and he will weigh and test it for you)
*
Google does not hire stupid people.
posted on June 15, 2008 06:40:06 AM new
This is a problem when it comes to person to person buying and selling-
If I buy a gold coin from an established coin dealer and return a subway token,the credit card mediation board will side with the dealer and deny my claim.
But when it comes to selling on Ebay and you are just an individual who sells a coin today and an ashtray tomorrow,how can Paypal or VISA/MC mediation board know who is telling the truth?
Take a picture of the item at the post office?Mark it with a special pen?
An affadavit from your mailman?I dont think the Post Office wants their employee to be moonlighting on the job?
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Google does not hire stupid people.
posted on June 15, 2008 07:01:09 AM new
I just called paypal and asked them why I am not going to get back my shipping fee because of the seller having the wrong address listed with them.
I was told that if the buyer has the incorrect address listed with them and the item comes back I should have asked the buyer for additional shipping money. If the buyer didn't want to give it to me they could make a claim with paypal and say "never received item" in this case paypal would give me right because the buyer didn't have the right address listed for shipping.
But because I shipped it the second time at my expense then the buyer's claim right now as stated "item is damaged" he wins the case.
I was told that once the item comes back to me (He has 10days to return it) and the buyer gives Paypal the tracking number I have 3 days to respond to paypal. Example: if the box came back empty or if the item was not the right item returned to me or for whatever reason. They do not automatically return his money when he puts in the track #.
posted on June 15, 2008 07:30:33 AM new
But Toni,how is Paypal going to know if he returned an empty box? The postage paid and decide it is an empty box?What if he is smart and put enough stamps on the box?Post office does not care if he overpaid .
Then there is this feedback problem,if he loses,he could leave you a NEG.
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Google does not hire stupid people.
posted on June 15, 2008 07:43:57 AM newMy TOS says All Sales are Final!
If you accept PayPal or have your own merchant card processing, there's no such thing as a final sale.
Sure, I still put that in my auctions, but it's mainly to discourage people who want to try jewelry on then return it.
At this point, since the error in weight was yours, it might be better to grant the partial refund. You could email or call the buyer and tell him you'll partially refund but since this item was on consignment with you, you need a photo of the necklace on a gram scale (showing the weight) for your records.
posted on June 15, 2008 05:06:57 PM new
hwahwa, I don't know how it can be proven, also what if he sends a different pair of binoculars? But either way I do know I will be returning all his money because that's how it works with paypal.
In 10yrs of selling I had 3 buyers contact me with a problem and each time I return all there money and paid for them to ship the item back to me. It just seemed like the quickest and easy way to get rid of the problem.
But this guy didn't give me a chance to correct whatever the problem is, I asked him to tell me what was damaged and the next thing I knew he made a claim with paypal.
Guess I will find out what the problem is when the binoculars are sent back to me.
posted on June 15, 2008 05:31:42 PM new
I dont know how Paypal can decide who is telling the truth if he returns a different pair of binoculars?
If you are an established merchant in that field,you will win,but if you are an individual selling on Ebay,I dont know.
Say that you are 47th Street Photo or BestBuy or Nieman Marcus,they will take your word for it.
posted on June 20, 2008 07:23:46 PM new
Just a quick update. He returned the necklace - I refunded his money. I've been notified the dispute is closed.
posted on June 21, 2008 06:56:42 AM new
you can always sell it back to him outside Ebay this time around since he has seen and weighed the necklace,it should go by current market price.
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Google does not hire stupid people.
