posted on March 14, 2011 02:27:23 PM new
I just bought 10 items all the same from auction 250710534253. I ask for combined shipping, which he says he does. I paid it with pay pal. I took a look at the order when it came in, and saw $7.02 parcel post shipping charge. He charged me $17.49. on a total of $29.90 worth of goods. Is a 130% surcharge in shipping reasonable? It is not to me, this seems very excessive, in fact obsene. It was a simple box 8" long. He wrote this on the billing.
This is the combined shipping price. Each additional item ship for $1.50 per item. If you bought 10 items from the next cheapest guy on Ebay, you would pay 59.79 total or $12.00 more than what you are psying with me.
Thanks.
Should I NAIL him with a bad feedback and a 1 for shipping and handling? I have only given a few in 11 years.
posted on March 14, 2011 02:35:25 PM new
Give him a chance to refund excessive shipping costs. Email him, and state your case first. State your concerns and ask for a refund of overcharge. Do not threaten to give low stars, or feedback.
If he refuses to refund all or some of the excessive fees, which were not enumerated beforehand - leave appropriate feedback and DSRs.
posted on March 14, 2011 02:52:28 PM new
I would normally do just that, but he already knows he overcharged me for shipping, and feels justified in it because he feels his price of his item is so cheap (it is not, his is about average).
This is not an accidental oversite, it is an intensional act to tack on huge fees to make up for what he consideres a cheap price. By excessive shipping, the items are no longer $2.99 each, But 3.99 each ($10 divided by 10 items). Do you really think I should give him a chance. I ship a lot of stuff, and I give my buyers back money on shipping if it is more than a dollar or two. I would be ashamed to rip them off like this, regardless of the cost of the item.
posted on March 14, 2011 04:35:18 PM new
Your both wrong, which in eBay terms means the seller is wrong.
The price for shipping is dead on. That listing shows $3.99 for the first item and $1.50 for each additional item. He charged you exactly what the eBay listing shows, up front, you would be paying for shipping.
Where the seller was wrong, and where you can nail them, is that the shipping method was listed as Expedited Shipping. eBay's own shipping section shows this as "Expedited Shipping (USPS Priority Mail®)" - but he sent it as a Standard shipping - NOT EXPEDITED.
So, you paid the correct amount, but the seller shipped a different/cheaper method and should refund the difference.
Everyone knows that sellers have to make a little on shipping when your selling a $3 item on eBay, but then you better be providing the exact service your promoting in your listing.
posted on March 14, 2011 06:15:29 PM new
I cannot believe that any seller would encourage a buyer to leave bad feedback. It is hard enough to sell with all of the crazies out there leaving bad FB for no good reason. I especially hate the term NAIL them.
If you got a good deal even if the postage was over priced, let it go. Many businesses use a stealth program and you do not know what the exact shipping costs were. The Ebay gods are out to get us as it is, let's not turn on each other.
posted on March 14, 2011 08:46:31 PM new
I don't think his combined rate is outrageous. You agreed to it when you purchased it, however, with that said, he should have shipped it Priority Mail and you should be entitled to a refund for paying for a Honda, when you got a Yugo.
I find it disturbing that buyers get upset about what they perceive as being overcharged for shipping. They agree to shipping terms when they purchase an item. You have every right to not purchase the item if you think shipping is too expensive. The seller deserves all 5 stars for shipping fees if you agree to it in the first place. The idea of hurting a seller after someone agrees to a fee is wrong.
With that said, you should email him and ask for a refund for the difference because he used a slower service that was not part of the terms he stated in the listing. Be polite, but let him know that you had no problem paying for combined shipping if you were getting what he advertised, which is Priority Mail. Find out what the difference should be and ask for exactly that amount. I do note that his $3.99 charge for Priority Mail is about $1-1.25 less than what he is being charged. It sounds like he has some adjustments to make.
If he declines, then I would consider giving him lower DSRs and stating that he charged for Priority Mail while shipping Parcel Post.
posted on March 15, 2011 03:04:17 AM new
It is pretty clear in the listing what you were going to pay.
You should have asked him if you buy 10 could there be "anymore" of a break in shipping.
Yes if his standard shipping is $3.99 there is no way that is priority shipping. Sounds like a listing error to me.
However you were expecting priority and got parcel post, so you do have a point there.
If all 10 items would fit in a flat rate priority box - that what he should have used.
I would request a refund and see if you can both agree on the amount.
I would not give him a 1 in shipping but I would let him know that he should not advertise priority and then ship parcel post.
posted on March 15, 2011 06:31:47 AM new
If the rates are posted, even for combined shipping, the guy should not be NAILED. If you have a concern ask the seller prior to payment if there is any wiggle room in discounting the shipping fees. If he wants you as a repeat customer, he will probably agree.
As others have pointed out, 3.99 is below the staring price for priority, so it is either an old listing or an error. Ebay frequently messes up the type of shipping I have listed in my ads when the notice arrives. For some reason "large flat rate priority" seems to appear on many of the end of sale notices when it clearly states medium flat rate as one of my options, not large. I guess it is a bug in the system.
posted on March 15, 2011 08:58:26 AM new
I guess I run in a different set of ethics than the rest of you. I am selling my huge collection of personal stuff, not shipping. I consider it unethical to make a profit on shipping ON EBAY. I did not mention that I did send him an email and got one back about cutting the shipping cost. He said it would be a lot cheaper for 10 than he advertised, so I did the buy it now. That is why he put that justification for keeping the projected shipping costs rather than closer to actual, a slight of hand, then sent it by a cheaper method with some sort of justification.
I keep track of all of my shipping costs from year to year, and make sure that at the end of December, I am within a $100 +/- for the whole year.
In fact, I do the opposite of what he does. I offer parcel post, one flat rate and almost always upgrade to priority. On the other hand, this is a hobby to me, not a business. I sometimes lose on California and win on New England. I have almost a 50% repeat buyer clientel.
However, you have made me realize that my ethics are different than most of yours. I do not fault you on them either, just have a different viewpoint is all. I have decided to leave no feedback at all, and put him on my "do not buy from list". I still do not consider it ethical on ebay to charge excessive shipping other than a $1 or $2 an order. But I did learn something, and I thank you for your responses and your time.
And Merrie, the hidden postage thing does not work. All I have to do to check it out is take the weight, the type, and run it through the USPS paypal site and get the exact cost anyways.
posted on March 15, 2011 09:17:54 AM new
If I was you, I would consider leaving neutral feedback stating that the buyer charged you for Priority Mail, but shipped Parcel Post and refused to issue a partial refund. I would also leave them a lower DSR on shipping costs and item description since the shipping method was part of the description. You need to do what is right so that other buyers know what to expect.
-------------------
I use this as a perfect example of how one person projects their ethics...
There is a woman here in Portland who is in the same business as ours. She will only list 10 items a day on Craigslist. She believes this is the maximum anyone should list, though there are no rules limiting the number any person can list. When another dealer lists more than 10, she complains about over posting. I was quick to point out that there are other people out there who only list 1 item a day, and may feel that her 10 listings is over posting.
eBay sellers are both individuals and businesses. I don't think it is fair to hurt a seller on shipping costs if they state it up front and you agree to it. You have the power to say no to the terms and not purchase it. I believe it is unethical for eBay to allow buyers to rate shipping charges since they agree to it when they purchase it. I don't care if the mark up is a loss or 1000% higher than they paid.
You may be smart enough to understand the difference and want to spend time figuring that out, but most buyers don't. I have received low DSRs for shipping cost, even though I have shipped the same item for a loss in shipping. If you have ever shipped a large lampshade (say, 12"H x 16"D) you realize that the weight is 5 pounds, but you are charged on the dimensions which may cost you $40. Also, you can easily look up charges on USPS, but its not as easy to do son on Fed Ex or UPS.
Some buyers think that any and all shipping charges are wrong, so they leave low DSRs.
The only way to fix this problem is eliminate the shipping charges DSR. Either a buyer agrees to buy it at a certain shipping rate, or they don't.
There are two issues here though. One is shipping charges and the other, which truly applies here is the seller bait and switching the shipping method to their financial advantage.
posted on March 15, 2011 09:48:28 AM new
"If I was you, I would consider leaving neutral feedback stating that the buyer charged you for Priority Mail, but shipped Parcel Post and refused to issue a partial refund. I would also leave them a lower DSR on shipping costs and item description since the shipping method was part of the description. You need to do what is right so that other buyers know what to expect. "
posted on March 15, 2011 10:00:34 AM new
drj: re stealth shipping. We can all go to the trouble of calculating the shipping if it is not visible, but few people do. I cannot be bothered. I would not have bought from this buyer if his policies did not please me from the get go. There are so many sellers to chose from that I would pass on any deal that is not worthy of all 5 stars especially since you contacted him prior to the sale. I am thinking that you got some items at a great deal or items that were not easily available elsewhere. I assume these factors were taking into consideration prior to you buying.
Switching the type of shipping is another story.If priority was agreed upon, it should have been delivered. Sometimes parcel post is just as quick and about the same price depending on zips.
posted on March 16, 2011 07:59:55 AM new
I just considered I got "bait and switched". He stated in an email that the costs for 10 units would be smaller than advertised. However, he did not say how much. the shipping time was also excessive as I paid for priority mail, and needed the cables quickly. It was the usual 9 days in coming.
I decided to write him a letter. I told him I would not be giving him any feedback, for I don't believe in Ebay's changes into one way feedback. Sellers cannot tell which guy is scamming people "after the sale" for discounts because of imagined problems or just plain lies. I further told him that I will not be buying from him again, and that I thought he ripped me off for shipping, and the switch in shipping from parcel post from priority which I paid for. I further told him I tend to buy repeatedly from sellers who have ethics and honesty, and my business could mean $100, or even $1000 of dollars. He did not write back as of today. I guess he does not want to piss me off as I did not leave a bad feedback and fears I could change my mind.
I just want to ask all of you a question, and to me, deserves an honest answer. On ebay, do you sell products, or do you sell shipping? I sell products and USPS sells shipping.
posted on March 16, 2011 08:05:29 AM new
And again, thanks to all of you for your responses. I have a few new views to digest and you spend your time without charge to explain different points of view. Don
posted on March 16, 2011 08:46:09 AM new
I am going to explain why buyers shouldn’t nickel and dime sellers to death over stated shipping costs. This does not get the seller off the hook for shipping on a cheaper method while charging for a more expensive method. That is wrong.
--------------------
You bought 10 of these items for $2.99 each. Say, they cost this seller $1.25 each.
$29.90 for 10 pieces
$17.49 shipping
________________________________
$47.39 TOTAL BUYER COSTS
Profit Difference: $20.75
10 pieces is $2.08 per piece profit
** Hidden costs. The buyer may have paid shipping to order these items, they may have to drop off packages at post office so they pay gas and time, they may have purchased these at a close-out sale, garage sale, etc so they may have had fuel and time added in. They may have other overhead costs outside of eBay such as storage, payroll, utilities, business insurance, health insurance, etc.
Had they charged you only $10 shipping for Parcel Post, their profit would have been $17.77 or $1.78 each piece.
What kind of profit should a seller make in the eyes of the buyer? Is it really any of our business? I know I wouldn't want to explain this to my buyers, because the reality is that they don't care. A buyer wants it for as cheap as they can get it. If they like the price + shipping, they will buy it. If they don't, they will look elsewhere.
Lastly, $1.25 wholesale on a $2.99 item is low. Generally, a retailer pays 50%-60% + shipping costs to acquire new product.
[ edited by shagmidmod on Mar 16, 2011 09:36 AM ]
posted on March 16, 2011 01:20:28 PM new
An extra $2.45 at 14%.
The biggest issue with eBay's "community" is that eBay groups all sellers as businesses while buyers treat sellers like their equal.
Many buyers view eBay as the "bargain center" where they can buy things at garage sale prices because they think sellers are just dumping product.
You should see some of the emails I receive from people complaining about an asking price. They just make things up. I had some very old bark cloth fabric in pristine condition, and something there is no others on eBay. One guy emailed me complaining I was charging over $100 a yard. Problem is that my buy it now price includes shipping and still wasn't close to $100 a yard... plus they can always make an offer below the asking price.
I had another person try to tell me that another seller has the same thing for much less. Why bother me when they can get it from another seller for less??? Because the seller they refer to doesn't include free shipping and their item was in terrible condition. I wouldn't get nearly as many of these types of emails if I sold these things through my own site.
posted on March 16, 2011 02:02:12 PM new
"I wouldn't get nearly as many of these types of emails if I sold these things through my own site. "
That is so true. There has never been a low ball offer on any item that we sell through our store. However, I should note that we are swamped with offers to sell us collections on a daily basis.
posted on March 16, 2011 02:41:19 PM new
shadmidmon. I read your "cost analysis". I DO understand where you are coming from. But the problem is again, are you selling product or are you selling shipping? Now that ebay is going to rip the sellers off by charging on shipping, we have a horse of a different color coming.
When ebay does that, YOU ARE selling shipping, and it is ebays way to make it a shipping free (or free shipping) network. that is their ultimate goal. You will put a single starting bid on your items for sale, and that will include shipping, insurance, whining etc.
the big problem with ebay is they really do not have any REAL competitors, thus they have a monopoly. I would not be surprised that ebay soon will get a long pile of law suits. With the control they are putting over the buyers, they can no longer claim they are not part of the sale, which is going to be a huge liability.
They have already made paypal a requirement, in effect "coining money" and a violation of the US constitution. The last time I looked at my dollar bill in my pocket, it said for "all debts, public or private". Ebay says our US dollar is no good, and they coin their own money in pay pal.
In another 2 years, my collection will be sold and I will be complete. I would also suggest everyone to get their own website like a lot of people do, and get off of ebay.
By the way, I am starting a new method of feedback that might move things that way. When I leave feedback, I will start putting.
"fast pay". any problems, email me at [email protected]. In case you were not aware, ebay is removing email addresses from "as a question" messages, they did it to me. Since ebay has no ethics and no competition as I have learned, then they are open to competition.
If I was in business, I would use ebay only as a front, may sellers are already doing that. Many now include their addresses, phone numbers, email, company website links in their ads. I wonder when ebay is going to come down on that? Build you own customer list off of your ebay sales!!!
posted on March 17, 2011 08:26:33 AM new
This is like the chicken and the egg question.
The answer is simple. You can sell products all day long on eBay, but how are you going to get them to your customer outside of local pick up? The answer is shipping. You choose which shipping method to use, so technically you are selling a product and a service.
I buy several things online, whether it is music, printer cartridges, computer/phone accessories, books, cologne... etc. I shop eBay first, but Amazon is where I end up b/c it is less expensive and better service. Almost everything I buy is either directly from Amazon or Amazon fulfillment. I have never had a single issue with Amazon. I would say that an average of 6 of 10 transactions I have done on ebay have gone perfectly. 2 transactions go ok with some minor issue, and the other 2 are disasters b/c a seller misleads me to believe an item is what it isn't. Not the best ratings compared to Amazon.
A 2.5 foot tall lamp that weighs 15 pounds costs me about $25-30 to ship. When I passed this on under shipping fees, I was having problems with some buyers who thought shipping costs were outrageous. Six months ago I realized I accumulated a few low ratings under shipping costs and I lost my 20% discount for two months.
I changed my strategy and started using "free shipping", which I pay eBay fees for bundling shipping into. The net effect for me:
1) My sales have increased
2) my customers like what they perceive as "free"
3) DSR for shipping cost are now automatically a 5.0.
4) I don't risk losing my 20% FVF discount.
5) All of my DSRs have increased, likely because buyers aren't disgruntled about the shipping costs and take it out on all of my DSRs.
Shipping costs alone have easily doubled in 10 years, and will continue to rise as fuel prices skyrocket. I really believe eBay sees this as a financial opportunity to make more revenue. However, there are some interesting issues with this change in fee structure. If sellers raise their prices to offset the costs, it won't affect sellers bottom line... unless it turns off buyers from purchasing b/c of the increase. Sellers won't be the only ones to see the cause and effect of this, eBay will as well. As shipping costs continue to increase, the bottom line increases for buyers. This will mostly affect sellers who offer new, readily available items such as ipods, new clothing, etc. Collectibles, particularly rare/unique pieces won't see this issue as much b/c there are less available.
posted on March 17, 2011 08:40:09 AM new
by the way, I have two accounts. One I sell vintage collectibles and the other mostly new clothing.
I offer free shipping for both.
My clothing business seems to average 25% higher sales prices than other sellers. I have concluded this is because:
1) I have clear, vibrant photos that are better than someone taking photos on a ugly mid-90's pattern comforter on a bed where the lighting is poor and you see no details.
2) I offer free shipping and make an offer.
3) My templates are professional and organized.
People want professionalism, they want their item quickly, and they don't want problems. My TRS status helps as well.
I had to start watermarking my images with my name/logo to prevent other sellers from stealing them. I also include copyright disclaimer in the listing.
I have found a few sellers stealing my images and I report them immediately. I shouldn't work to take photos for my items so that someone else can use them. There are stock images available for them to steal, but eBay frowns on stock photos... yet promotes stock images. Go figure.
posted on March 17, 2011 08:42:57 AM new
As always shag you have summed up the problem very nicely. My question, concerns mainly auction items as apposed to FP. How can you bundle in shipping? If you start an auction at an appropriate price to accomadate shipping costs, people will stay away. If you start the item lower to encourage bidding, you can get caught losing money on each transaction if the item sells for the starting price or an amount that will not give you any profit, perhaps even a loss.
posted on March 17, 2011 09:31:36 AM new
shag, for many items you cannot include the shipping costs. The items just would not sell, too many variables.
posted on March 17, 2011 09:54:19 AM new
that is why i use FP. it costs less to list, though FVF are slightly higher. overall it costs a % or two more, but I don't have to worry about it. It sells when it sells and I have make an offer on it.
I had the same problem when i used to list auctions. I loved auctions, but my sell through rate was diminishing.
