posted on March 25, 2011 04:30:10 PM new
My neighbor bought some items off Ebay ,one of them is a piece of gold jewelry sold as 18k and he tested it and it turns out to be less than 18K.
He filed dispute as item not as described,the seller offers a partial refund to make up the discrepancy in gold content,but he would rather return the item .
Now Paypal is asking him to prove item not as described,that he should find a third party to state the content and issue a letter on company stationary ,providing name,address and phone number of the third party.
He could take it to a jewelry store or pawn shop and have it tested,but why should a store bother to write a letter??
And who is available in the office to type and sign a letter?if there is a back office behind the store?
He then called PAYPAL and explain the situation,Paypal staff starts talking like a parrot and keep saying get some written proof.
then he said what if I file a chargeback with my credit card issuer,then the PAYPAL PARROT said we will defend the chargeback.
What is the best way to handle this?
Also why cant the seller prove the content as 18k ,is this not the job of the seller to prove his merchandise is as described?
*
There is no 'Global savings glut',only wild horses and loose bankers.
posted on March 25, 2011 04:58:40 PM new
It really doesn't matter what the gold content is if the buyer isn't happy with this item or any item they should be able to return it for a full refund no Q's asked.
posted on March 25, 2011 05:41:53 PM new
is this the PAYPAL POLICY?
They keep asking for written proof?
*
There is no 'Global savings glut',only wild horses and loose bankers.
posted on March 25, 2011 07:01:16 PM new
Why can't he type a letter and print it out stating that the item is less than 18K. Then he could have them test it and just sign the letter. A small charge could be worth it.
It sounds like paypal is now taking a better look into buyer's complaints. Maybe that's a good thing (for sellers).
posted on March 25, 2011 07:09:52 PM new
My question is why did they go through Paypal?
This should be handled through eBay. If I was the buyer, I would file the claim through eBay and send it back immediately. Make sure to insure it and send it registered mail so that it has to be signed for and it is secure. This will cost the buyer about $6-10. It is well worth it though.
I understand that Paypal wants proof of less gold content, but in essence, it is an appraisal and that will cost money.
As a seller, I am glad this is done to protect me if I know I am in the right, but if I was the buyer I would be really ticked off and would consider buying items outside of eBay in the future. If this is what is going to start happening, then this will start leveling the field between buyer and seller when it comes to INADs. I am very surprised by this though.
Finally, if this doesn't work out, I would most definitely call the credit card company and let them know what happened. Often times good credit cards offer warranties on purchases including fraud protection.
posted on March 26, 2011 06:19:18 AM new
This is an off Ebay transaction,if it were Ebay,then he can contact Ebay.
Good idea ,write the letter himself and ask the appraiser to sign it,but these days with so much scam,people are leary of signing any piece of paper and PAYPAL wants the third party name,address and phone number and the letter preferably on company stationary.
Now how many stores are willing to go back to the office and whip out a company stationary and then pick up the phone when Paypal calls (may be from India or Costa Rica),how many clerks are in the store and the person who signs it may not be in the store when Paypal calls?
But my point is -why should the buyer bear the burden of the proof?
why cant the seller proves it is authentic ,why cant the seller does due diligence before he/she start describing an item as 18k gold or 18th century Meissen or Antique archaic Chinese jade?
It would be interesting to hear from MC/VISA,Federal trade commission ,consumer bureau who should be proving the item is authentic?the buyer or the seller.
*
There is no 'Global savings glut',only wild horses and loose bankers.
posted on March 26, 2011 07:48:03 AM new
PP doesn't know either party so they are telling the buyer if he or she want full payment under the not as described clause they must provide evidence that the item is not as described.
posted on March 26, 2011 08:47:25 AM new
why cant Paypal tell the seller if you want to keep the money,you must prove it is authentic,like an invoice from the source where you get the item.
I had a dispute once from a buyer who wants to return an item after 30 days and I explain these figurines after 30 days of sitting on shelf is no longer new and bears scuffled marks and I cannot resell them as MIB new,I show Paypal an invoice from the manufacturer and encourage them to call them.
I won the case.
*
There is no 'Global savings glut',only wild horses and loose bankers.
posted on March 26, 2011 08:53:12 AM new
If we use our credit card or even cash to buy an item from a brick and mortar store or a mail order catalog,and we want to return the item because it is not as decribed,do we have to go and find a third party to sign and testify it is not as described?
I remember buying a pair of sandals from a mail order house,the description makes it sound like it is made in USA and like Birkenstock,and it turned out to be cheaply made in Israel,I have no problem returning it,I dont need a third party expert to sign and swear it is not as described.
Even Harry Winston,Neiman Marcus estate jewelry dept,Macy,Walmart can make mistake,do they ask us to go all over town looking for third party expert to sign a paper?
*
There is no 'Global savings glut',only wild horses and loose bankers.
posted on March 26, 2011 08:58:19 AM new
Why can't he type a letter and print it out stating that the item is less than 18K. Then he could have them test it and just sign the letter. A small charge could be worth it.
It sounds like paypal is now taking a better look into buyer's complaints. Maybe that's a good thing (for sellers).
///////////
ebaytreasures,
The seller offered a partial refund since it is not 18k gold,by doing so ,the seller is admitting it is not 18k gold,so why should PAYPAL still want a piece of paper to prove gold content?
I think Paypal should change its policy and ask the seller to prove authenticity.
I wonder what the consumer bureau has to say about this policy?can you imagine if MC/VISA asking the buyer to prove,they will just say return the item.
*
There is no 'Global savings glut',only wild horses and loose bankers.
posted on March 26, 2011 10:50:34 AM new
Paypal processes payments. They are not a judge and jury or court of law.
There are plenty of issues of fraud on both sides of the fence, and Paypal is in the middle. How do we know the buyer didn't switch the piece of jewelry? How do we know that the seller is offering a partial refund just to satisfy the buyer? Offering a partial refund doesn't admit guilt or that the item is not 18K gold. Whether good or not, it is nothing more than a gesture.
I have to put some blame on the buyer in this matter. Paypal clearly states this policy in their TOS. I would NEVER use Paypal to buy something expensive because of their terms. I would ALWAYS use a credit card that offers me protections against things like this.
Either way, the buyer still has to jump through hoops to file a claim.
I won't ever buy a computer or electronics using anything other than a Visa/MC/AMEX credit card that has fraud protections and extended warranties in their terms. As they say, "membership has its privileges".
Those Best Buy credit cards offer no protections once the manufacturer warranty expires, but a good Visa/MC will often extend it 2-3 years at no extra charge.
I recently helped my cousin with a $1500 MacBook Pro computer he bought. The computer came with a 1 year warranty. He had a problem with the headphone jack going bad on it. He took it to the mac store where he purchased it and they told him it was out of warranty and he didn't buy the AppleCare that would extend it. The repair cost was over $400 b/c the headphone jack is part of a larger board.
I told him to call the credit card company to have it warrantied. 30 days later he has a brand new macbook pro computer... an upgrade from a 1.5 year old model. They didn't want to pay $400 to repair it.
posted on March 26, 2011 10:58:40 AM new
I just bought an extra mount for my GPS unit on eBay. I paid $12.99 plus shipping for an OEM TomTom model.
From the listing:
"For sale is an official TomTom "EasyPort" windshield mount for GPS models listed below. This is the official genuine TomTom additional mount that is sold out on TomTom's website. Mount is extreme for how small and lightweight it is; we tested it with 30 lbs of force and it still stuck! Avoid the cheap china aftermarket products, all of our TomTom products are official TomTom brand and ships from the US."
I received it just 3 days later, but it isn't OEM. I paid a premium price for a TomTom model. This is no different than the aftermarket pieces on eBay for $5-8 less. There is nothing "wrong" with it, and I am sure it will work fine, but why should I pay $5-8 more for something that isn't as advertised. I emailed the seller. We'll see what happens.
posted on March 26, 2011 01:10:58 PM new
Shag,
many internet sellers ebay or off ebay do nothave their own merchant accounts so Paypal is the only way they accept credit card payments )or Google),so to do as you suggested,buyer will first empty his paypal account ,then click option,use credit card for payment,that way he can go to his credit card company and file a chargeback against Paypal.
It will hit Paypal first and then Paypal will ask the seller to present his side of the story,then pass it on to MC/VISA.
I understand it is MC/VISA now who mediates the dispute,not the buyer credit card issuer.
It would be interesting if Paypal sides with the seller and insist the buyer go all over town looking for third party authentication .My neighbor works for a big retailer in town,he is going to consult inhouse legal counsel.
*
There is no 'Global savings glut',only wild horses and loose bankers.
posted on March 26, 2011 01:23:01 PM new
Paypal wishes we all use our paypal fund or bank transfer to pay for our purchase but if you file and win a dispute with PAYPAL and the seller has no money in his paypal account,you are #*!@ out of luck.
You can only hope he keeps selling on internet and payments will come into his paypal account so Paypal can send them to you.
Paypal seller or buyer protection only covers up to so much,if the amount gets too big,say a few hundred dollars,PAYPAL will not
provide protection
*
There is no 'Global savings glut',only wild horses and loose bankers.
[ edited by hwahwa on Mar 26, 2011 01:24 PM ]
