posted on August 7, 2001 05:19:14 AM newI still cannot link right
[URL*]the/whole/"http"/address/here[/URL*]
To make your link clickable, do it exactly as above BUT don't type in the asterisks. Don't put spaces between anything while typing, it has to be one continuous, unbroken line. Come on now...it's easy...try it.
posted on August 7, 2001 05:35:53 AM new
From the 'news' page (8-2) on that URL.
Pakistani Christian Ayub Masih has until August 24 to make a final appeal to Pakistan's Supreme Court after the Multan High Court rejected his appeal last week. Ayub was sentenced to death by a judge in the Sahiwal district in 1998. He has been in prison since being charged with blasphemy in 1996.
And:
VOM is urging Christians around the world to contact President Musharraf, urging the release of Ayub and reform to law 295 and Pakistan's treatment of Christians.
How fortunate I feel to live in the USA where a person can choose to practice the religion of their choice (or be free to practice none) without facing imprisonment or death.
posted on August 7, 2001 10:05:06 AM new
Yes, indeedy, being in America guarantees your right to religious freedom -- unless its not an approved Western-style religion or cult, that is. Witness the overt community hostility at the Church of Satan, for instance. And when the Rashneesees were here in Oregon, religious bigots did everything in their power to destroy their small ranch community. Jewish synagogs aren't welcome everywhere in small-town USA as they tend to get burned down in the middle of the night too! Yes, it's a good thing that here in America, everyone is allowed to practice and worship as they please.
sp.
[ edited by Borillar on Aug 7, 2001 10:06 AM ]
posted on August 7, 2001 10:23:40 AM new
Thank you for this link.
We had a church burning a couple of weeks back in a nearby town. The church was a black church next to a Kroger store. After viewing the security tapes from the Kroger parking lot, they found it captured in full view the culprit torching the church...a black fireman.
T
posted on August 7, 2001 10:34:06 AM new
okay Borillar - I'll try to clean that up, just for you.
Our government won't put you in jail or to death for your religious beliefs. Nor will they do so if you choose not to believe for follow any religion. You know....religious freedom and all that.
Individuals and hate groups are a whole different matter.
posted on August 7, 2001 07:07:12 PM new"Our government won't put you in jail or to death for your religious beliefs. Nor will they do so if you choose not to believe for follow any religion. You know....religious freedom and all that.
For how much longer, I wonder?
With seemingly so many Americans so willing to tear down the walls that seperate Church and State -- which is why our government does not imprison or kill people for their religious beliefs, it will be in our lifetimes that the force of government will be used to do just those things.
posted on August 7, 2001 10:18:52 PM new" ... they found it captured in full view the culprit torching the church...a black fireman."
I wonder what the members of the community there had to say about it? Any recollections as to the town, state, and date of this incident? I'd like to read more about it. Maybe they have a local newspaper online for me to go read up on it.
posted on August 7, 2001 11:31:43 PM new
The only story that I find is an EARLY story. It has since been carried on the news with more information and later developments. I don't know why the paper hasn't followed up. He confessed to this fire as well as multiple others, including buildings and cars. In each case, he was there to be the "hero".
posted on August 26, 2001 04:21:44 PM new
Well hello outoftheblue - It was my post you quoted, with the exception of the rest of what I stated = Individuals and hate groups are a whole different matter.
Why don't you share with me, specifically, what case you're referring to. I'm always open to learning new things. Has our government put people in jail simply because of their religious beliefs or practices?
posted on August 26, 2001 04:45:50 PM new
Well anytime their religeous views have stood in the way of paying taxes/responding to the draft or following the cultural norms of the majority there have been people put in prison or been thrown out of their jobs/school or had their property confiscated or children removed.
Mormans
Quakers
Jehovah's Witnesses
Amish/Menonite
Christian Science
Mormons for polygamy.
Quakers for the draft and sheltering slaves.
Jehovah's witnesses for the draft and flag salute and seditious literature here and in Canada.
Amish/Menonite for draft and refusing social security numbers and payment and refusing to swear an oath in court.
Jehovah's Witnesses
Amish/Menonite and
Christian Science all for medical issues
People who apply for entry into the US today are asked if they intend to practice polygamy when they are entering from countries where it is legal to have 3 wives. I assume if they affirm their marraiges they are denied entry - unless they are a big wig Saudi prince.
posted on August 26, 2001 05:02:04 PM new
I never understood, why, I think its Jevohah Witness' that do not have to have their children immunized to get into public school. If my child was late on one shot, believe me I'd hear about it.. what medical reason can they give that gives them the right? not to immunize their children? Some of those diseases are still around. Its seems insane to me.
posted on August 26, 2001 05:06:16 PM new
It never ceases to amaze me the amount of mis-information that goes around.
>>"I think its Jevohah Witness' that do not have to have their children immunized to get into public school."<<
This statement is absolutely false. I have know several JWs over the years and they have nothing against immunizations.
My wife's sister and brother-in-law on the other hand do not believe in immunizations. They are a non-denominational faith. That's their business and I'm not going to put them down for it...
[ edited by outoftheblue on Aug 26, 2001 05:10 PM ]
posted on August 26, 2001 05:24:23 PM newNeartheSea: it is the Christian Scientists you refer to in regards to immunizations. They are against that and blood transfusions--indeed medical science in general.
Their belief is that such go against the will of god,IIRC. That prayer alone should be used. There have been cases publicized, where children have died because of this. Adults as well, of course--but adults have the privilege of deciding for themselves, while kids must go along with their parent's beliefs will-they, nill-they.
posted on August 26, 2001 05:44:02 PM new
bunnicula thanks, I wasn't sure which it was that didn't have to be immunized, and isn't it law that all children be immunized to enter a public school in the U.S.?
Thats what I have a problem with, if all need be, except the ones that belong to whatever denomination, this doesn't seem right, nor safe, medically that is.
Sorry outoftheblue, was not sure what denomination it was. I know one, that whenever they were having celebrations; Christmas, Birthdays etc... some kids were excused and went to the library instead.
But my kids are 19 and 20 (thank God ) and I don't need to worry about all the stuff that needs to be done for school. YES!
posted on August 26, 2001 05:47:57 PM new
We did have a case here, where the Christian Scientist parents refused to have their child treated for appendicitis. A neighbor, who happened to be an EMT, heard the kid crying in the yard, and went to see if he was hurt. He had obvious signs/symptoms of a "hot belly", and the guy told the parents. Even offered to call 911 for them. Parents very kindly refused, and took the kid inside. He watched for a while, and when they never left the house, he kinda got the police involved. By the time all was said and done, the kid was dead. Very sad...
Last I heard, the parents were still in court fighting the whole thing, based on their religion.
posted on August 26, 2001 05:49:49 PM new
You know immunizations are an interesting thing to bring up.
They often benefit the group more than the individual.
If a certain critical number of the group are immunized then the ability of a disease to propagate through a population is curtailed.
Often an uninoculated person in a group is as safe as if he were also immunized if he does not have significant contact out side the group - but is it fair to take that benefit and avoid taking the risk the others took of being one who gets sick from the immunization without contributing to the group safety?
If you have uninnoculated children obviously they can't say the others are at risk from them because they can't get the disease from them. So it is their OWN RISK they are being told they can not assume for the disease but MUST assume for the treatment.
posted on August 26, 2001 06:08:58 PM new
The following is an excerpt from an article about religious tolerance.
This is a very informative and interesting site.
"On 1999-JUN-22, President Clinton commented on the gradual, step-wise descent into genocide in Kosovo. He emphasized the symbolic role that the U.S. Armed forces played. Within the military, there is respect for religious diversity and freedom for minority religions. He gave a congratulatory talk to troops at Aviano Air Base in Italy, recognizing their efforts during the air war against Yugoslavia. He said in part:
"...tomorrow's dictators in other places will have to now take a harder look before they try to destroy or expel an entire people simply because of their race or religion...
I want to say a special word of appreciation to all of you in our Armed Forces for just being here. If you think about -- I want you to really think about it -- you think about what Kosovo is all about. People were taught to hate people who were from a different ethnic group than they were, who worshipped God in a different way. They started out by being afraid of them and misunderstanding them. Then, they came to hate them. And then after hating them for a good while, they came to dehumanize them.
And once you decide that someone you're looking at is no longer a human being, it's not so hard to justify killing them, or burning them out of house and home, or torturing their children, or doing all the other things you have heard. It all starts -- it all starts with the inability to recognize the inherent dignity and equality of someone who is different from ourselves.
The composition of our Armed Forces, with people from every race, every ethnic group, every religious persuasion, from all walks of life, that make up American society -- the fact that our military has all of you in it is the most stunning rebuke to the claims of ethnic cleansing."
We would love to see the above textposted in every classroom in North America. But, as President Clinton spoke those words, religious diversity and freedom within the U.S. militarywere under attack by Congressman Barr, Governor Bush of Texas, other political leaders, and a coalition of conservative Christian groups.
posted on August 26, 2001 06:32:59 PM new
bunni, what I never understand with that "God's will" statement, is how do they explain wearing glasses or contacts?
posted on August 26, 2001 06:40:14 PM new
Hi Helen,
There's a lot of great information in those links. I'll have to take some time an look them over carefully.
I especially like this quote: "The term "cult" is generally used as a hateful snarl word that is used to intentionally devalue people and their faith groups. It creates fear and loathing among the public, and contributes greatly to religious intolerance in North America. The word "cult" carries a heavy emotional content. The word suggests is that this is a group that you should detest, avoid, and fear. In reality, the only "crime" of most "cults" is that they they hold different religious beliefs from whomever is doing the attacking."
posted on August 26, 2001 06:47:01 PM new
Kraft! I never thought of that one! They do wear glasses (and or contacts) don't they?
I would like to know if they do, if they do, what is the reasoning they do, since they don't want 'scienctific medicine' brought into their lives.....
(did that make sense? )
ConnieM, thats terrible, and I have heard of those type cases also, and I really don't know what to say. Something like appendicitis that can be treated fairly easy enough (though everyone knows ANY surgery is a risk) the option is there over certain death.
posted on August 26, 2001 06:56:41 PM new
NearTheSea
That's ok.
I have just seen a bit too much religious intolerance in my lifetime and I think it should stop. I pesonally know of people who have been beaten and almost killed, in this country, by mobs of angry religious zealots. In some cases, law enforcement officials were involved.
Mis-information about the beliefs of others is a big contributor...
posted on August 26, 2001 07:14:57 PM new
outoftheblue
Yes, I like that attitude toward cults also. There is a wealth of information on those sites.
Another good link for those who just need a basic understanding of all world religions...such as myself ...may find the following link very informative.
Has our government put people in jail simply because of their religious beliefs or practices?