"WASHINGTON (CNN) -- A change in the way the Bush administration calculates payroll taxes revived the Social Security debate Thursday, with congressional Democrats calling the move a gimmick meant to hide the impact of the Bush tax cut on the Social Security surplus."
Contrast that to these articles on Bush and Social Security during the Presidential campaign:
"So far, Bush says he will treat the Social Security surplus as an inviolable ''lockbox'' despite fellow Republicans' repeated raids on it."
posted on August 16, 2001 05:47:28 PM new
I'm new here (reformed lurker), but saw the title of this thread and it reminded me of that Saturday Night Live skit where Bush and Gore were being spoofed on the debates...
"You may think you know where the Lockbox is, but only I know where the Lockbox is....it could be under the fender of my car, but afar, near or far, but I have the key to the Lockbox, but no one knows where the Lockbox is.....Oh yeah, where is the Lockbox?"
posted on August 16, 2001 11:04:06 PM new
And you're surprised by this?!? The only campaign promises Bush has kept so far are the ones to the corporations who funded him. Them he's paying back in spades!
posted on August 17, 2001 05:10:25 AM new
Right! The Cato industry has been working on privatizing Social Security for 20 years.
On Social Security, Cato and the White House think and act as one. For the White House, Cato is an indispensable source of expertise--with two decades of pro-privatization research and lobbying under its belt, it knows more about the issue than just about anyone else in Washington. For Cato, this is the moment the think tank has been awaiting for years: the chance to privatize the largest government program in the world. There's just one danger: If the public thinks Cato is really running the commission, the crusade to privatize Social Security is probably dead.
posted on August 17, 2001 09:38:37 AM new
I am so happy that my dear prez, in his all-bright, dinosaur pea-size brain wisdom, decided the "Privatized SSS" is the way to go...Sure, take our money and INVEST it in the Stock Market....No fear...The Stock Market is down by ONLY 142 points as of this morning, 9AM, PST; it is still early...it could get worse, and most likely will...
******** Gosh Shosh! My "About Me" Page
posted on August 17, 2001 11:22:44 AM new
Thanks for the links, Helen. If the Bush dynasty and the member of the CATO Institute would be willing to put their family's fortunes where their mouths are and put a guarantee tp back up Social Security in case of a market failure -- I'd concider it. Of course, they're all for privatization and dumping Social Security into the sotck market, but if the market goes belly-up ... oh well!
posted on August 17, 2001 11:36:34 AM new
I have been watching this "lockbox" idea since the presidential campaigns had the first Presidential Debate. I've been an advocate of this idea for many years, as it has not just been the Republicans who have been routinely raiding Social Security and leaving I.O.U.s behind, but the DEMOCRATS as well! They're ALL GUILTY of stealing OUR money!
You have to understand that Social Security may be collected as taxes, but the money DOES NOT belong to the US Governement like ordinary tax collections would. That money is OUR MONEY; and when ANY member of government dips their hand into the Social Security Till, it has the legal standing of THEFT and FRAUD! Oh, but our "elected" officials have made laws that put themselves ABOVE THE LAWS that you and I have to follow -- remember?
I read an interesting article written by Congressman Pete Stark who has tried to warn us about how Bush has set it up so that they can cleverly raid Social Security through a back-door loop-hole that they made. One would have called him an "alarmist" earlier this year, but in the thread link above, this is EXACTLY what it happening!
posted on August 17, 2001 07:42:58 PM new
SS and the Stock market... If that were to occur, that would create a huge bull market the likes we've never seen and those who jumped in early would really benefit.
Think about it... Supply and demand... If all of a sudden TENS AND HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS of dollars started getting invested in stock, there would me far more buyers than sellers causing the markets to soar!
That would pull the Dow and Nasdq out of the duldrums and those that got creamed investing (and still holding stock) in Amazon, Ebay, Cisco, Nortel and the other high tech and telecom stocks would also benefit.
GW has accomplished a lot for the country, but you Sore Losermans refuse to acknowledge his due.
Hey, if you don't want your tax cut, send it back if you think that will help.
The government was on track to get a lot of the country's business done until the Senate Majority was lost by some nothing Senator from Vermont who wanted his 15 minutes.
Now, the Dems are going back to their stall tactics, name calling, personal attacks (except against their own) and BS about the environmental issues.
I've been a Sierra Club member for about 10 years and I get so sick of their BS propaganda... The ecological waste of their fundraising is truly amazing! I must get 50-75 pounds per years of mailers asking for donations. Plus they hire marketing firms to do their fundraising and actually get a fairly small net dollars compared to the gross receipts because they probably spend/waste 60-75% of the dollars they receive on the marketing costs!
Do you Dems really believe that GW wants to damage the wildlife refuge. Sure, they want access to a tiny but important area. We should go along with his plan unless you are all willing to cut 30-50% of your electricity and gasoline consumption. Yeah right, I thought so... You can criticize, but you won't be part of the solution, you will only continue to be part of the problem.
In Clinton/Gore's 8 years, their energy policy was non-existent... Ditto with Gray Davis from my California... But amazingly, you Dems blame the Prez and the GOP... You people suck! Fortunately, the city of Los Angeles had a Republican for a Mayor and he signed long term power agreements with the power companies, so Los Angeles has had no problem with black outs... L.A. was even selling our excess power to the other parts of the state for some big bucks... hee hee... But now we have a new Dem Mayor... Let's see how bad he blows it...
Those Dems on the Hill should SHUT UP unless they ride a bicycle to work instead of their chaffeured limos, and practice what they preach... Well, I suspect they conserve water... by showering with an intern...
GRRRRrrrr okay, I'm getting off my soap box... Hey Rush, are you out there?
posted on August 17, 2001 07:50:52 PM new
My issue with the SS program is that the people we elect are not *in* the SS system themselves. They vote in the rules/laws and regulations, but they aren't even participating in it themselves.
IMO, if they were like the rest of us taxpayers, and were participants in the system, I'd bet we'd see a whole different program set up for our retirement years.
posted on August 17, 2001 08:07:48 PM newhuge bull market the likes we've never seen and those who jumped in early would really benefit.
Those who are already in would be the ones to benefit. I'll give you 3 guesses which political party's constituants this will help the most.
Think about it... Supply and demand... If all of a sudden TENS AND HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS of dollars started getting invested in stock, there would me far more buyers than sellers causing the markets to soar
I have thought about it. Billions of dollars in over valued stock is what would be backing up the Social Security System. God, I hope this doesn't happen.
[ edited by Microbes on Aug 17, 2001 08:18 PM ]
posted on August 17, 2001 08:35:50 PM newDarrelll:GW has accomplished a lot for the country
And just what would that "a lot" be? Please, I would really like to know. The only thing even slightly positive that he's done so far are the tax rebates that were sent out. Those *weren't* cuts--they were a rebate of the $ you're paying toward taxes this year--and if that rebate makes you come up short next April 15, you *will* be forking over the dough anyway. Now, Bush *has* put forward a tax cut, but his own party has ambushed that.
Otherwise, the only things we've seen so far are a plan to alllow drilling in a pristine wilderness area (& once that toe is in the door no doubt logging, mining, etc. would inevitably follow), the raising of allowable arsenic levels in water, the backing of a missile system that not only doesn't work but also raises the hackles of every other nation in the world (but, hey, we're due for a war anyway, aren't we?), a foray on the Social Security system, a plan to make social welfare faith-based--but only if the faith is approved, etc. etc. etc.
Come to think of it, those in the country who believe in a god should probably fall to their knees and thank Him/Her/Them that Bush *does* spend so much time on vacation--just think of the mischief he could get into if he was on the ball...
edited cuz "tax" has an "x" & not a "c"
[ edited by bunnicula on Aug 17, 2001 08:36 PM ]
posted on August 17, 2001 08:37:12 PM new"Do you Dems ..."
Welcome, darrel, to the Round Table! I hope you'll stick around long enough to have some great disccusions on here. The Repubs on this messageboard don't have the ... uh ... "fire" that you do.
As far as Dems go, I'm not one of them, so I'm not sure if you were addressing anything that I had to say.
As far as the rest of your commentary goes, every one of those statements are twisted -- and that can be easily proved. Are you really, really sure of your facts?
sp.
[ edited by Borillar on Aug 17, 2001 08:39 PM ]
posted on August 17, 2001 08:55:50 PM newMicrobes: Oh, I agree with you. By "slightly positive" I meant that this is the one thing he's done so far that has aroused approval, if only by short-sighted people who can't see farther than the measily $300 (maybe) or $600 (maybe) checks in their hands.
posted on August 18, 2001 02:15:25 AM new
darrelll, are you by any chance twinsoft's roommate?
So you say that by destroying the only security left to people, that investment over time employed that transfers along from job to job and remains no matter the situation a person may find themself in will "That would pull the Dow and Nasdq out of the duldrums and those that got creamed investing (and still holding stock) in Amazon, Ebay, Cisco, Nortel and the other high tech and telecom stocks would also benefit"?
Don't you really mean that it's a desparate attempt to restore the economy to the levels that were maintained throughout the Clinton administration, right up until the time that investors began to be concerned that GW might actually become president?
posted on August 18, 2001 02:20:27 AM new
Don't you know that pillaging the social security system is the only way that dumbya could hope to have funds for his hairbrained schemes and keep the government operating?
posted on August 18, 2001 07:49:41 AM new
I think that we're just being strafed in here. I wish Rush Limbaugh himself would come in here to tell us "how it really is" -- horns, claws, tail and all. Until then, I'm sure that many will pass through and simply strafe us -- unless we can capture a Rushite and force them to participate in the forum.
Speaking of Rush Limbaugh, guess what may be his new job? That's right - co-Anchor on CNN Headline News! CNN is trying ot get him onboard with his entertainment show. Talk about Fair & Balanced reporting!!
posted on August 18, 2001 03:14:38 PM new
To JerkoBush fans: If bushytail is SO great and has done SO MUCH FOR THIS COUNTRY (?????...Between VACATIONS, I guess...). how come he has already lost a member of his own party (giving back control of the House to the...DEMS...), and as of YESTERDAY, has lost his TOP MAN in charge of the "Faith-Based program"...Uh???Uh????
posted on August 18, 2001 08:28:26 PM new
Yes, I know it was the Senate. I was just poking a little fun at a, not so informed, " tax and spend" democrat.
