posted on October 16, 2001 08:28:38 PM new
And our smallpox shots and our plague shots and our botulism shots? I get a flu shot every year around this time. I wouldn't mind standing in line for an anthrax shot too.
posted on October 16, 2001 08:34:58 PM new
Don't panic but the Strain of anthrax they have detected in these threats the Ames varity is the only one the shots can not protect you from that they know of at this time.
How ever this strain does respond to meds very well..
posted on October 16, 2001 08:42:46 PM new
wel vacine yes there is but there is only one company that produces it at this time .
even though its been proven safe for Humans they are still waiting for FDA aproval for use untill then its only been used on the military.
problem with the vacine is that it requires 3 shots over 30 days 3 more over the next 18 months and then boosters yearly to guarentee protection.
So even if they started giveing shots today there would be no guarenteed prtection for 18 months after you start them but the company does have enough supply at this time to start vacinateing millions only need government approval its not likely they will get been waiting since the gulf war for the FDA .. http://www.Dman-N-Company.com
Email [email protected]
posted on October 16, 2001 09:39:08 PM new
I think it could be time to start vaccinating those millions. We can still be fearful about this sort of terrorism but there would be a sort of end point to it after the eighteen months.
posted on October 16, 2001 10:08:53 PM new
After looking at the odds I'll pass on Anthrax shots. I've got better odds at winning a jackpot at the casino, and that ain't going to happen either.
posted on October 16, 2001 10:33:17 PM new
Instead of planning to get an anthrax shot while you're standing in line for the flu shot, maybe you'd better plan on not standing in line at all for awhile. I heard in passing that the flu shots are a bit scarce, they're asking those that are healthy to put off getting them so the old and sick can get them first.
"Don't panic but the Strain of anthrax they have detected in these threats the Ames varity is the only one the shots can not protect you from that they know of at this time."
I bet that's no coincidence. Around the time they first started referring to this as "The Ames Strain," or a variation on "The Ames Strain," one of the newsguys linked it to Iowa State University, in Ames.
But my best friend is a scientist at ISU, (though not in this field), and he says he doubts it came from ISU, but, rather, from a place in Ames called something like - USDA Animal Disease Center, a place with cattle, deer, etc., on the grounds, the whole place surrounded by razor-wire topped fencing.
We're probably getting hoisted on our own petard, or a variation of our own petard.
posted on October 16, 2001 10:49:27 PM new
The nose-picking theory. Works for me.
What I meant to say was that, rather than this strain of anthrax being "discovered" at the state university in Ames, it was probably actively developed at the USDA center in Ames to be vaccination-proof.
posted on October 17, 2001 02:32:19 AM new
The facts in that news piece work fine until they discovered that the form sent to the congress is weapons grade.
posted on October 17, 2001 02:54:21 AM new
No, it's bovine grade. Weapons grade is a hard crystaline form that can be formed into 155mm projectiles and fired as far as 15 miles. That kind is mostly used fused to airburst and is called Stardust.
posted on October 17, 2001 11:13:57 AM new
A little off-topic but I think I've noticed some of the news reports that may be a little confusing since they aren't giving really in-depth explanations. Back as a college summer job I actually worked at a virus research lab which also discussed bacterial public health concerns like anthrax so I still maybe have more background than most of the public.
What I can see as possibly puzzling is the talk of spores, exposure, then a blood test, then ANOTHER blood test and so forth. First, spores in and of themselves are harmless but if they come in contact with skin or, worse, are inhaled, quickly germinate, essentially like a seed (bacteria are plants) into the bacteria rod organisms. The bacteria grow and reproduce and start pumping out toxins... chemical poisons. If these growing bacteria are coming from a large number of spores deep in the lungs, they may have produced so much toxin by the time symptoms appear that the victim is doomed... antibiotics will kill the bacteria but not cleanse the body of the toxin poisons which continue to destroy body organs even after the bacteria are reduced drastically. If the bacteria are growing on the surface after getting started in a small cut in the skin, the body can wall off the infection for a longer period of time as the black-centered boil being described; that's such an obvious infection that antibiotics will usually be prescribed in plenty of time to result in a complete recovery since the toxins aren't being pumped out internally.
Now, some of the tests like nose swabs and I would guess swabbing up areas on desks and so forth, involve wiping the swabs onto petri dishes containing a nutrient gelatin. I don't know what the details are for these tests, but I think the investigators look at these dishes with microscopes after a few days, after any spores would have turned into bacteria and multiplied, to see if the characteristic rod-shaped bacteria are present. (Perhaps DNA testing is used, too, that's more recent than my experience.) If they are, they can drop a bunch of different antibiotics into the bacteria colonies and see which ones kill those exact bacteria; this is one way of narrowing down which genetic strain it is from that location. "Wild types" will tend to be killed by most antibiotics, and bioengineered types may be resistant to one or more, which resistences will indicate which labs they might have come from. They also learn which antibiotics will be necessary.
People aren't "infected" by having a few spores present in their noses or lungs or on their skin. It's entirely possible, and I'd think even common, for a few spores to germinate into bacteria and for one's immune system and white blood cells to kill the nasty buggers off with no effect or further trace. However, since these are obviously serious doses of spores involved in at least a few of these incidents, they're talking millions and millions of spores in the dust in one of those envelopes. Therefore, it's not too difficult for someone to get a sniff of dust with tens of thousands of spores going in with a few breaths. (I saw a report that the guy who died was near-sighted and held the letter up to his face to see the writing.)
Now... say someone inhales thousands of spores and the start germinating into live bacteria in a person's lungs, the victim's immune system will start producing antibodies, compounds that attach themselves to particular locations on the bacteria's outside walls and eventually kill them. It takes the body a period of time to ratchet up antibody productions and of course if too many spores are inhaled the body can be overwhelmed by the bacteria and their toxin production. The *blood tests* they talk about are looking for these antibodies... anybody who has had an anthrax vaccination will have them, as will anybody who had a much earlier exposure and fought it off.... soooo what the health people look for is an *increase* in antibody levels ("titre" from one test to a second a week or so later.
THAT's why all this stuff about "come back for a second test, we don't know if you're actually infected yet." They have to see an increase in antibody levels to be certain there's truly an active infection that the person's immune system is ratcheting up antibodies to fight off. It's also possible that somebody could have spores found in their nose, start taking cipro, and thereby kill off the bacteria as spores germinated so they would never be shown by the blood tests to actually be infected.... though they likely would have been had they not started the antibiotics.
Hope this all helps some rather than confuses more. Btw, I don't have the slightest inclination to buy a gas mask, stock up on cipro much less start taking it, or worry about opening my mail. I do plan to get a flu shot as soon as they're available, and keep my tetanus immunity current... they're worth general personal concern, anthrax isn't, IMO.
I'm not a doctor... go to yours and follow his advice on these issues!
posted on October 17, 2001 11:21:26 AM new
I'd much rather have a smallpox vaccination, since I didn't receive one as a child. Do some internet research on the disease, and you will see it's much more serious than anthrax.
posted on October 17, 2001 11:38:25 AM new
You could always go to Mexico with the hoarders crossing the border and stock up on Cipro, just in case. You don't even need a prescription.
Wonder if they know that Cipro has a shelf life?
Wonder if they know that if they take it, just in case, that they could build up an immunity to it?
posted on October 17, 2001 01:17:42 PM newValleygirl: the only two surviving samples of smallpox are held in one of our government laboratories and, IIRC, a Russian lab. It is one of the few diseases that we *have* been able to wipe out totally.
So unless terrorist are able to get their hands on one of the two samples, you are pretty much safe from smallpox...
posted on October 18, 2001 06:42:52 PM new
pyth00n, I think your post is *very* helpful!
bunnicula, for some time now I've had a sense of knowing that not all of the surviving samples of smallpox are accounted for. Is this incorrect? Perhaps what I heard was that the ones in Russia may be thought to be vulnerable for being "misplaced". Oh well, might as well make it those in the US too.
posted on October 18, 2001 06:56:46 PM new
While I was in the car Monday, I caught part of a program on NPR, possibly "All Things Considered" , on which the guest said that an agent designed to work on the toxins produced by Anthrax was about two years away from being tested on humans.
posted on October 18, 2001 07:01:42 PM new
Please send all extra supplies of the anthrax vaccine to me in Boca Raton so that I can continue to go to the main post office and mail out customer packages without worrying.
thanks!
it's actually the mail sorting bins in my garage that I have books stacked in that I worry about...
posted on October 18, 2001 07:25:00 PM new
Samples were kept because they were essential to develop smallpox vaccine. There'd been planst for the last surviving samples to be destroyed in 1999, however after unconfirmed reports that "terrorists" had made off with the Russian sample our government decided to hold onto our sample just in case it was ever needed.
posted on October 18, 2001 10:41:26 PM new
Hmmmmm...Infected with Samllpox??? SO how does it feel to be a Native American...this disease/bacterium has been a weapon of war for MANY years!!!
Keith
I assume full responsibility for my actions, except
the ones that are someone else's fault.
..
from one test to a second a week or so later.