posted on October 31, 2001 12:49:54 AM new
There's something that's been bothering me these last couple of weeks concerning all the posters leaving AW, and it's this.
The posters who are leaving must all be freeloaders who contribute nothing to the financial viability and ongoing future of the site.
As it is they have still not been asked to contribute anything financially.
As a signed up user of Auction Watch services my credit card is already on file with them and has been for a long time. I am charged monthly for whatever fees I am contracted to pay.
There has never been any errors or abuse of that credit card registration.
I assume that all users of Auction Watch's services are treated in the same way.
It therefore follows that all the deserters who refuse to register a credit card are obviously freeloading and not using any of the pay as you go services. If they were using the available services their card would be registered.
They are happy to use for free the facilities that paying members are funding.
The financial resources plus physical resources needed to run and maintain the boards must be sizeable, yet they are not prepared to contribute to the financial viability of a site that most profess to call home.
Bear in mind, that posters have still not been asked to make any financial contribution for being allowed access to the boards.
Perhaps if they were to have supported A/W by using just some of the pay as you go services then there wouldn't be a whole bunch of good folk out of work right now.
It seems to me that a lot of folks haven't thought this whole thing through and are being gripped by mob mentality and the heat of the moment.
By many of the posters now leaving own admissions, these boards were home, yet in the same breath they don't want to pay rent.
How many will slink back, cap in hand, wearing a new name badge? I'm willing to bet a good number.
As for me, I'm staying. Even if I do end up having a conversation with myself and wearing a flak jacket!
I would bet that I am not the only one who would be willing to pay an annual fee to keep AW as their home, moderated or not.
AW did not put forth that option.
Having a CC# on file is not going to fill the coffers.
We would still be non-paying users of AW.
It seems to me that your post would have been more appropriate for those who did use AW services, other than the boards, and left when AW started charging.
They were the ones who deserted AW.
Support? Support for any site comes in all forms. Many were brought to AW by word of mouth. You can't buy that kind of advertising.
I really like you, Bob, and I hate to think we could be separating on such a sour note.
posted on October 31, 2001 05:19:44 AM new
I don't think you'll be talking to yourself here Mylanta...
Each person needs to decide for themselves how they wish to handle the situation, some will stay and some will go. Whatever they decide I respect their choice and wish them well. I admit to wishing that more would stay and it is hard to see them go. I gave them my PayPal credit card number even though I don't currently use their services. I might now, though, as long as the credit card number is on file.
posted on October 31, 2001 05:22:52 AM new
I have had a CC on file with AW since I use their auctions services. I also post on these boards, but read them much more than I post.
I do NOT consider any of the posters to be deadbeats! Just because someone does not utilize AW's auction services or chooses not to put a CC on file does not justify this "label". It neither negates the information they bring to the boards, nor the wisdom they share with those of us just starting out. Sometimes it may be to provide a different way of looking at things.
It is definitely NOT a convenience for the people who do not use AW's services to come to this board and post. I, for one, am grateful that they take the time to come here and offer what they have learned and experienced - their refreshing views.
I realize - and appreciate - everyone has an opinion, and the author of this thread is entitled to his. My opinion is if this reflects the new attitude these boards will be taking, this is one paying customer that will not be back...
posted on October 31, 2001 05:30:18 AM new
I agree with Bob, whoever he is, though I think that the requirement should be more than simply a filed card. I think that users should be signed up to use one of the variety of auctioning services whether they in fact use them or not. There's a pretty good set of them here, or have any of you noticed? They work in a very troublefree manner and for the same amount a person can use as many selling IDs as he or she wishes without compounded fees. Nothing is charged if nothing is used.
I have several different registered ebay IDs and switch between them according to the type of junk that I sell. It allows me to peddle things that I would not want associated with my 'krs' ID, if such comes my way, and I find the AW system completely flexible to any use I could imagine. The image hosting does not restrict me to any particular site and allows me to sell in non mainstream places with ease. In all cases nothing whatever is charged me until I have used a service.
This place is obviously struggling to survive. The space for forums costs money. Within the forums are a myriad of people who have enjoyed the free availability for years. Now AW has found it necessary to take extreme measures in tightening it's belt and still it does not propose to charge anything for use of it's forums.
Yet there is this great hue and cry of the unfairness of it all, of being abandoned, of having the door slammed shut behind so many people who have been so helpful in their freeloading all of this time. So much snivelling and whining.
Oh! Buit WE built AW! WE made it what it is!! Bull. What did you make except trouble?
posted on October 31, 2001 06:41:55 AM new
Frankly, I have to agree. I'm bewildered as to why there is such indignation and outcry about registering a credit card number. It appears that people are afraid their "privacy" is going to be compromised. I'd have to ask just what kind of "privacy" do y'all who do business regularly on the internet think you have? I have credit cards on file many online companies with whom I do business on a regular basis, including ebay, Amazon, paypal, Marriott, American Airlines, JC Penneys, Macy's, Country Curtains, and many others. I don't see how it compromises my privacy. Here's a newsflash! ANY company you do business with sell your consumer profile to other businesses for marketing purposes, whether you are doing online business with them or not. This includes your bank, homeowners insurance, department stores, grocery stores (for those of you who use the swipe cards), investment houses, gas companies, etc. etc. Unless you go to the trouble to notify each individual company that you wish to "opt out", they sell your information to others. So what is the big deal?
posted on October 31, 2001 07:11:07 AM new
Oh. Were those charges from "hacking"? And here I thought my husband had been bored one day.
Seriously, though, you don't have to have to be online to have your credit card number charged fraudulently. A few years ago, one of my cards was charged for hundreds of dollars of long distance phone calls to South America and Northern California. Never did find out how they got our credit card number.
Edited to add this was before we even had a computer.
KatyD
[ edited by KatyD on Oct 31, 2001 07:12 AM ]
posted on October 31, 2001 07:25:44 AM new
pwolf... I did have some charges from the Bibliofind hack on our business credit card... never heard of anything like that happening with AW. I still do business with Amazon using my credit card BTW. And I still registered my credit card with AW a few days ago.
The worst fraudulent charge on my credit card occurred when our credit card number was taken from a slip at a restaurant in an upscale local mall. We had $375 worth of china charged on our card at a department store in Dallas. We got it reversed but it was far worse than anything that has ever happened online.
How many people here would refuse to ever use a credit card at a restaurant?
KatyD is right, no matter where you use your credit card the information gets passed on somehow unless you've got an airtight optout agreement on file. How many people here used a credit card to sign up with an ISP so they could access the Internet and thereby use Ebay and AW etc? I know I did.
posted on October 31, 2001 07:52:10 AM new
I doubt anyone feels worst than I do about the loss of the moderators. I also feel very bad at how AW has been roasted by some for a business decision. Many of the comments weren't unexpected, but I saw some real nasty remarks from people I respected that makes me feel I saw something I never saw in that person's posts before.
posted on October 31, 2001 08:04:59 AM new
Bob - The posters who are leaving must all be freeloaders who contribute nothing to the financial viability and ongoing future of the site.
I have been a registered user both on ebay and AW for approx. 4 years. In 1997 I was a buyer mostly, then became a seller. Lately I sell a little here and there, but mostly consider myself a buyer. I have never used AW services, but have never felt myself to be a 'freeloader' here.
When I first started viewing AW EO I learned so much, and that has never stopped. Any news or changes relating to auctions, I read about them here first, on AW. When there were questions I felt confident I could answer came up, I did. To repay the AW boards by returning what I had received from them. When sellers asked how buyers felt about this or that, I contributed my opinions. I don't believe that's being a freeloader, or being one who has contributed nothing.
The AW RT is a different matter....little in here is auction related. If AW were keeping their moderators, I'd use my CC to help defray part of the costs of their salaries. But since I am not purchasing anything from them (their service etc.), I'm not willing to give a CC # to chat or to contribute to their site. I can receive and get auction related information from other sites that aren't requiring this form of info. for ID purposes.
pwolf - Same thing happened to us when egghead.com was hacked.
posted on October 31, 2001 08:05:44 AM new
Freeloader? Geez.
I like being able to post here w/out having my eBay ID involved. It gives me the freedom to post w/out auction interference.
If AW gets purchased/swallowed by eBay in the next couple of months, that freedom will be gone.
Air is free and I breathe it. Got an address where I can make a contribution so I can stop being a freeloader? By the way, the services offered here are nothing I can't do for free. Just because you decided to go into business online w/out learning the simple stuff to do it in a financially smart way, is no reason to call people names.
I trust AW just fine. I don't trust the PTB at eBay any further than I can throw them.
By the way, if AW doesn't get purchased in the next few months, I'll probably register my card, if the boards are still fun. And I'll be back as sadie999 if the name is still available.
Your broad generalizations on the people who are leaving show a lack of respect for anyone who thinks or behaves in a way different from you.
posted on October 31, 2001 08:12:39 AM new
This thread opened on an insulting "us and them" note(i.e., those staying and those leaving) and has remained pretty faithful to that tone throughout.
One thing I've noticed this past week is that while there have been several threads created to trash people who, for whatever reason, don't want to give AW their credit card information, there haven't been any threads created to deride those who have so easily acquiesced to what many consider an absurd requirement.
I guess that's the difference between "us and them."
posted on October 31, 2001 08:38:02 AM newIf AW had posted a notice that they needed contributions to keep the boards open and the moderators employed, I would've gladly sent them a money order
Same here. The only online vendor I've given my credit card number to is eBay, and only out of grudging necessity.
posted on October 31, 2001 08:45:29 AM new
It's not about submitting credit card information. It's not about who has the information or why. It's about why should I pay (even though there's no current discussion of money exchanging hands) for a 'service' (ie: chat) that I can get for free from 1000's of other places online?
AW's services do not interest me. I am capable of writing my own HTML. I am capable of hosting my own pictures. I do not need a bulk uploader. I have no need to submit credit card information for something that I do not need.
Do I need chat? It's a diversion, but I don't need it. If I do need it, I can get it elsewhere. Do I need to stay uptodate on what problems w/ ebay? Sure, but I can get that directly from ebay and their message boards and chatrooms~ or I can go to other auction related message boards. I don't need to get it from here.
So, please tell me why I should submit CC information to them....... for any of their numerous services that I do not need. Chat will never be a big enough "need" to warrent paying for it.. and in my book, if it is, then there's something seriously wrong with priorities.
posted on October 31, 2001 08:49:45 AM new
[i]"those who have so easily acquiesced[/i to what many consider an absurd requirement.
I guess that's the difference between "us and them."
Really Spaz? And how would you define the above bolded portion of your post?
For my part I haven't "aquiesced" to anything. I've been using these services for a long time simply because they make it easier than doing it sadie's free way which I was doing before AW ever appeared on the scene. Nevertheless, I don't find any invasive move here on the part of AW, and I'm not going to engage in the sort of sky is falling BS that those who rationalize their timidity with do, nor am I going to attempt a windy overinflation of any perception of the value of "my contribution".
It's really sort of cut and dried isn't it? If you like the place enough to demean yourself in whining over the loss of it, go put in a cc number. Tra La! No more whining display. If you don't, don't.
posted on October 31, 2001 08:50:13 AM new
AW needs to consider the boards part of their advertising budget....and the moderators should be considered salepeople.
posted on October 31, 2001 08:57:54 AM new
I have to agree with Femme - this sounds so unlike the usually gentle and accepting Bob that I've come to cherish and respect.
I'm unwilling to give my cc number (and I really am not PASSIONATE about security issues at all) - but I don't feel AW has given a logical explanation as to why it is being required. My gut is telling me that this is just step one of a plan to bill users in the not-so-distant future. "It's easy, we already have your credit card information on file, so you don't have to do anything to enroll/pay/subscribe". If they were to ask upfront, I'd gladly contribute (using the payment method of my choice), but this feels underhanded to me. It will be interesting to see what happens.
If I have a change of heart (and I can be very wishy-washy at times) then you'll see me here as TwoBit Rose. The Rosebids25 name is too similar to Rosebuds, and it feels as if I'm infringing on her name-rights. Just an explanation in advance for possible new name-badge.
I'll be seeing most of you in one place or another, but I probably will only be a lurker on AW. At least for a while.
Rosie
*There is no conclusive evidence that life is serious*
