gravid
|
posted on June 10, 2002 04:45:03 PM new
Makes me feel bad for this guy. You know the younger daughter would not be fooled by her own dad abducting the older sister and then slip back in bed, so what do they think? - that he hired someone to abduct her? For what? A scheme for money?
Sounds like grasping at straws. Why not do the Mother also?
|
Helenjw
|
posted on June 10, 2002 05:17:36 PM new
Utah Dad & Polygraph
Maybe it's just a routine procedure? But I would think that the mother should be tested also.
Helen
[ edited by Helenjw on Jun 10, 2002 05:19 PM ]
|
Borillar
|
posted on June 10, 2002 05:25:51 PM new
It really is common practice to polygram all of the adult family members, and sometimes, the teenage members as well. The father is first, possibly because an unsoken sexual motive may be possible; whereas, that would not be the case with the mother. That is not to say that the father did anything wrong, but if a family member did, Daddy is usually first in the line of suspects; then other males living in the home.
|
Helenjw
|
posted on June 10, 2002 06:31:13 PM new
How Accurate is the Polygraph?
The accuracy of the polygraph seems to depend on lots of variables.
According to the American Polygraph Association, over 250 studies have been conducted on the accuracy of polygraph testing during the past 25 years and it is estimated that the accuracy of decisions is generally in the range of 90-96% for specific issue investigations. Some of the most frequent errors may be caused by lack of training, non-functioning equipment, failure to properly prepare the examinee for the examination, poorly worded test questions, failure to assess the examinee's emotional and physical condition, improper use of testing techniques, a lack of quality control review, and misreading of the physiological data on the polygraph charts.
|
kraftdinner
|
posted on June 10, 2002 07:00:26 PM new
Thanks for the link Helen! I've heard too that the family is always considered suspect first until cleared. That must be terrifying for innocent family members already trying to cope with a crime. 
|
Linda_K
|
posted on June 10, 2002 08:22:56 PM new
I remember feeling the same way when Holly Klass was abducted. I couldn't believe they were putting an already emotionally stressed father though that. He willing did so...said he wanted to prove he was not a suspect so the police could quickly move on and find the abductor. I still thought it was horrible.
But then.... we saw what?? three more sets of families where the parents did have something to do with it?
I respected Mark Klass for not taking it personally and getting the focus of the police going in the right direction.
Wanted to add to: You know the younger daughter would not be fooled by her own dad abducting the older sister What I heard the day following the abduction, was that the intruder was wearing a mask and the room was dark. And the daughter did say [when trying to id the intruder] that he was about the height of her dad. So...maybe ??? that's why they only asked him.
[ edited by Linda_K on Jun 10, 2002 08:28 PM ]
|
kraftdinner
|
posted on June 10, 2002 08:47:28 PM new
Holly Klass...what a nightmare for that poor father. It really amazes me how these innocent, grief-stricken parents turn things around by becoming part of the solution to help others or move to change laws. What a tribute imo.
|
Linda_K
|
posted on June 10, 2002 08:52:52 PM new
Kraftdinner - I agree. I can't begin to understand what the parents must go through.
I do have a lot of respect/admiration for John Walsh too. After what happened to Adam he made it his lifes work. And look at all that has been accomplished because of his dedication.
|
kraftdinner
|
posted on June 10, 2002 09:27:23 PM new
I know. Isn't that something what he's done with his life? Especially after what he and his wife went through. He's the first to do a story about any missing child which must be sooo difficult for him as each new case must remind him of his own loss.
(You know, if these perverted child killers were the only ones that got the death penalty, I'd go along with it.)
|
Linda_K
|
posted on June 12, 2002 03:34:54 AM new
Watched Marc Klass being interviewed yesterday. He seemed to be implying this childs uncle was being un-cooperative in working with investigators in this case. I wonder why that would be.
But the head investigator sure sounded like they have narrowed down their suspects. Sounding a little more positive....hopefully.
[ edited by Linda_K on Jun 12, 2002 03:36 AM ]
|
Julesy
|
posted on June 12, 2002 05:24:06 AM new
POLLY KLAAS; not Holly Klass.
Brought me out of lurk mode.
|
Linda_K
|
posted on June 12, 2002 05:32:08 AM new
Well....whatever it took....it's good to see your userid 
Hope all has been well with you and the girls.
Polly Polly [write it on the blackboard a hundred times, Linda]
|
kraftdinner
|
posted on June 12, 2002 09:46:35 AM new
Polly Klass...ooops! Thanks Julesy
I heard that they were very close to finding who did this as well Linda. I take it though that she's not being held but has been murdered. I hope I'm wrong.
I'll go see if I can find any updates.
|
kraftdinner
|
posted on June 12, 2002 07:45:08 PM new
It's now being said that there is a man wanted for questioning in this case.
SALT LAKE CITY, Utah (CNN) --
Police in Salt Lake City released the
name of a man Wednesday wanted for
questioning in the abduction of
14-year-old Elizabeth Smart.
The man was identified as Bret Michael
Edmunds, 26. Edmunds is a transient and
faces outstanding criminal warrants
charging him with fraud and assaulting a
police officer.
For that reason, said police spokesman
Fred Louis, "we do consider him
dangerous." Police said Edmunds is not
considered a suspect.
Here's a link to the rest of the story.
http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/06/12/utah.teenager/index.html
The home that she was abducted from was over 6000 sq. feet. How would a so-called 'transient' know how to get in and out without being heard if he didn't know his way around the house?
|
clarksville
|
posted on June 13, 2002 09:20:56 AM new
Just heard that when an extended family member did a polygraph test, it raised eyebrows and the screen looks like it was cut from the inside to look like the entry.
In 45 minutes there will be a press conference about the extended family situation.
We built this city, we built this city on rock an' roll
|
Linda_K
|
posted on June 13, 2002 01:16:06 PM new
The home...was over 6000 sq. feet. How would a so-called 'transient' know how to get in and out without being heard if he didn't know his way around the house?
Yes, to me Edmonds is unlikely...even though he was seen in the area a couple of days before she went missing. He's too large a man to go along with the younger daughters height description. But...you never know.
You mentioned the house. Did you see the picture of the house on TV? It's huge and gorgeous.
Clarksville is right...other things came out too.
One thing still bothering me is I've never heard if the house had a security system. Sure seems to me that houses like that would normally be equiped with a security alarm that would have sounded when someone entered. Maybe (??) some one knew the secret code and that's why the police might think it's a family member or neighbor.
|
kraftdinner
|
posted on June 13, 2002 06:23:46 PM new
They have theorized that because the older of the 2 girls was taken, the abductor wasn't a pedophile but could be a sexual preditor (rolling eyes). Comforting words for the parents to hear. Yuck!
I agree that it doesn't make much sense because there were so many rooms. How did he know which one to go to? Especially in the dark. The police cheif said he thought it was someone who knew the inside of the house well.
I haven't heard a word about an alarm system either but they're really not saying much about anything. I wondered about that too.
|
auroranorth
|
posted on June 13, 2002 08:18:32 PM new
So tell me what fills you with more terror this kind of crap of some arab ? and how will the super ashcroft poice help us ?
|
nycyn
|
posted on June 13, 2002 08:49:31 PM new
This is a bizarre case. No request for ransom. A lot of work for mere sex (then murder?) with young girls, unless of course it wasn't a lot of work. Revenge? Obsession, due to her age, talents, and beauty. She's angel-like. Just strange. And sad.
Or am I romanticizing her and she staged this with her boyfriend to run away?
|
stusi
|
posted on June 14, 2002 03:47:55 PM new
An as yet unidentified man was just arrested in Texas for questioning in this case. Hopefully it will lead to the missing girl.
|
gravid
|
posted on June 14, 2002 04:33:13 PM new
I read that the home alarm system was not usually used because it included motion sensors that the kids would regularly set off if they got up in the night. - That is just stupid lazyness - If the system does not work for your situation you create a core area that still has a perimeter around it that is active. Obviously they did not think they had any reason to need such a system. I have news for them - big town - small town - noplace lacks wackos.
|
hepburn101
|
posted on June 14, 2002 08:50:01 PM new
Has anyone heard anything new on this case? THey keep saying "extended family members" are suspect, but dont say anything else. THe window screen was cut from the INSIDE too, supposedly. Been at work and havent seen any new news lately.
|
nycyn
|
posted on June 14, 2002 09:00:44 PM new
The NM car thief turned out to not be the drifter they are looking for. One Uncle's poly was "inconclusive". The drifter's license plates were found by a kid in a Utah Park.
|
kraftdinner
|
posted on June 14, 2002 09:11:36 PM new
Hi Hepburn! The 24 year old guy they were looking for apparently is no longer a suspect, even though they say he never really was. They are still looking for him for questioning but it seems like they don't have any other leads. (Unless they do have someone in mind but aren't saying.)
As I said before, I just don't see how a stranger could have entered the home without making a sound. That's why a stranger doing this doesn't make sense to me.
|
hepburn101
|
posted on June 14, 2002 09:24:07 PM new
Something "smells" about this case. Personally, I think the kid ran off with alittle help from a boyfriend or family member..maybe a cousin or something. In short, I think it was staged to make it look like a kidnapping from someone entering and the news about the Westerfield case is the one that got the idea in their heads to plan it this way.
Edited to wave at KD
[ edited by hepburn101 on Jun 14, 2002 09:24 PM ]
|
kraftdinner
|
posted on June 14, 2002 09:46:23 PM new
That's weird....I was just thinking the same thing Hepburn.
Nothing makes sense in this case. One reporter said that their dog didn't even bark. That's the first i've heard that they had a dog. That's makes it more weird imo. They also said that she went back to get her shoes. What criminal would let someone do that?
Your version actually makes more sense than what I've heard so far.
|
gravid
|
posted on June 14, 2002 09:55:59 PM new
That bad Poly for a relative could be intertesting. How many middle aged guys would fail a polygraph for sexual thoughts about a beautiful long legged 14 year old girl? They might have quite a few that sweat extra under some pointed questions.
|
Linda_K
|
posted on June 14, 2002 11:24:12 PM new
You're right....something's fishy.
I watched Greta Van Susteren's show [on Fox News] tonight and get this.....
she's questioning a guy who says he's the milk man....milk man??? [they still have milk men?] Anyway...he says he saw a man driving around this area the Monday before Elizabeth was taken. Greta asked if this was the Edmunds fellow. No....after seeing Edmunds picture, that wasn't the man he saw it was someone different.
Greta asks if he's shared this information with the investigators...he said he called them and told them BUT....here's the weird part [to me] that was that. Greta asks if he'd been questioned by the police, or sat down and talk with them after his initial call, had the police asked him to do a composite drawing of the person her saw....NO!!! NO?? Why aren't the police checking all leads? This guy calls in and says he saw a man driving around the neighborhood a couple of times and the police aren't interested in hearing more about this??? Weird ...
That's not all though....
|
Linda_K
|
posted on June 14, 2002 11:33:59 PM new
As Greta [God, I love her] is questioning this milkman she asked him if he knew what Elizabeth looked like. He said yes, he'd seen her a couple of times when she and the other children were waiting for their school bus.
BUT THEN.... he said [paraphrasing here] I often stop and talk with the kids while they're waiting for their bus. I talk to them and give them free treats...and such.
While listening to him speak, I got a funny feeling in my stomach. Don't know why. Just something very odd there.
Why would a milkman take the time to stop and visit and give treats to young children he didn't know, while on the job? To make friends?
Odd....very odd.
|
Linda_K
|
posted on June 14, 2002 11:41:44 PM new
Can you tell I've been listing again? lol
gravid - Yes, the uncle's polygraph
test was inconclusive.
And just like you said, you can have those security sensors set in places where the family won't be going during the night. Of course, they have a 7 bdrm. house so...
But like in our house, we had them under the carpet on the stairs going up to the bedrooms, three feet inside each outside door and the windows could only be opened so far or the alarm would go off. And then, of course, you tell the kids where they are so they don't trigger them during the night.
Good Night....
|
