bunnicula
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posted on July 11, 2002 03:25:41 PM new
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_2122000/2122619.stm
U.S. scientists have created the first artificial virus. How thrilling. Actually they created it using the genome of an already existing virus. And the one they chose was...polio.
One can only assume that they are out of their minds. Polio?!? Yes, and have used it to infect and kill mice, just so they'd know the new virus worked. "It was easy" one scientist said.
And this will warm the cockles of your heart: it was stated that soon even recreating the smallpox virus would be doable! Oh joy.
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antiquary
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posted on July 11, 2002 03:40:06 PM new
Incredible. I wonder who funded the research.
"Now people have to take it seriously. Progress in biomedical research has its benefits and it has its down side. There is a danger inherent to progress in sciences. This is a new reality, a new consideration."
It's not new. That's been one of the most widely discussed and debated subjects of the twentieth century.
grammatical edit -- I plead a state of near speechlessness. Seriously.
[ edited by antiquary on Jul 11, 2002 04:22 PM ]
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snowyegret
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posted on July 11, 2002 04:13:58 PM new
Ok, there's plenty of stores of the real virus. Why recreate deadly viruses artificially? I truly fail to see the purpose of this, other than the look what we can do factor. There are millions of virii out there that aren't deadly. Why not recreate one of those? And what if they flub it up, and create something deadly that can jump species?
Do viruses dream of electric sheep?
Progress in biomedical research has its benefits and it has its down side. There is a danger inherent to progress in sciences. This is a new reality, a new consideration."
Well, if he specifically wants to discuss biomedical research and bioethical debates, one of the more famous is:
Tuskegee Syphilis Experiment
Wimmer is no Lister!!!!
You have the right to an informed opinion
-Harlan Ellison
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junquemama
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posted on July 11, 2002 05:02:07 PM new
Good grief! Some of those idolts are hell bent on wipeing out the human race.
And all those different cancers,I still
believe, Aids was man made.
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gravid
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posted on July 11, 2002 05:15:50 PM new
The whole point was to sound a warning. They keep pretty close watch on the whole live virus samples, but a snippet of DNA you can buy by mail easy as can be. That is a stupid as banning atom bombs but selling all the components seperately by mail with no checks.
In theory you could make a virii from completely non-biological sources but that would still be difficult - but this is not very difficult at all to string together sequences. No telling what you could make also - completely new diseases with no immunity response in any organism.
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bunnicula
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posted on July 11, 2002 05:20:47 PM new
well, they'd better hope that the new artificial polio virus they concocted responds to the same vaccine the old one does. Because you just know that in a few months time we'll be hearing about how it accidentally escapes from their stringent security measures... No one who knows *anything* about the polio epidemics in history would think that recreating the virus was a good idea.
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auroranorth
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posted on July 11, 2002 05:30:27 PM new
Live polio virus still can be cultured from the mud of the Mississippi river.
There is little doubt that the Virus ''Parvo''was created in a east European lab and released during the cold warto see how a virus would spread thru the free world.
I would like to see the International court issue a warrent for those who did this as enemies of mankind.
I would like to see the international court have the proper legal hearings on the issue and then issue warrents that allow any citizen of the planet to shoot on sight any one intentionally manufacturing harmful biological agents.
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snowyegret
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posted on July 11, 2002 05:40:36 PM new
Most things that fall under scientific progress at least have the potential for improving existing conditions. I can't see any such potential here.
You have the right to an informed opinion
-Harlan Ellison
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bunnicula
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posted on July 11, 2002 05:58:20 PM new
Uh, no, Parvo is believed to be a mutation of the feline panleukopenia virus. Since its appearance in the late 1970's, it has mutated *again*.
AIDS is believed to be a mutation of the simian immunodeficiency virus (SIV).
The polio virus *can* still be found in nature, of course--we only vaccinated against it. But it is still the same virus that the vaccination was made for. Why create a version that may not respond to that vaccine?!?
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gravid
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posted on July 11, 2002 06:05:32 PM new
Being able to create a custom virii will probably result in eventually being able to create a virii that will "infect" you with genetic material that you did not originally have to make you resistant to certain diseases less prone to different cancers and heart disease and eventually even confur such traits as perfect pitch or traits of a savant such as instant calculating or total recall.
You might be able to increase your ability to live in certain environments like high altitude or zero G. You may be able to increase your strength or how long you can hold your breath and lower responses of your body that sometimes work against you such as brain swelling when you have a head injury.
You may be able to choose qualities of your children such as no danger of sickle cell or height and thin or heavy frame. Even sculpt certain shape ears and noses or hair color. I suppose eventually you could pick skin color removing the application of prejudice if it still is a problem. That will probably be condemned by many but I bet a lot would be very willing to lay down the burden. I'd be happy to see season allergies eliminated and deadly food allergies such as peanuts.
[ edited by gravid on Jul 11, 2002 06:07 PM ]
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antiquary
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posted on July 11, 2002 07:52:46 PM new
Maybe I'm being overly cautious, but I don't feel too comfortable with any scientist fooling around with dangerous virii who would say, " There is a danger inherent to progress in sciences. This is a new reality, a new consideration."
I think I'll do some web searching and see if I can find anything on who funded the study.
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snowyegret
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posted on July 11, 2002 08:12:52 PM new
Following a recipe downloaded from the Internet and using gene sequences from a mail-order supply house, researchers have assembled a synthetic version of the polio virus to prove how easy it would be for terrorists to make deadly biological weapons.
from here
You have the right to an informed opinion
-Harlan Ellison
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rawbunzel
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posted on July 11, 2002 08:42:17 PM new
This is so disturbing. I see no value in it at all. Why on earth are the gene sequences for something like polio available at supply houses to anyone? Maybe it is time to take some things off the internet...way too many "recipes" out there.
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antiquary
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posted on July 11, 2002 10:20:49 PM new
Nothing about funding/grants.
Wimmer and others have been strong opponents to the World Health Organization's beliefs that polio can be eradicated and a schedule developed to end immunizations, which currently costs 1.5 billion. Another strong opponent with whom he has done some collaborative work is a USDA scientist named Chumakov. Intially the arguments were that it would be impossible to eradicate the disease, though the WHO's efforts appear to be close, and then adding the bioterrorism threat.
The bioterrorism threat appears to be the reason that he conducted the research. The strange statement that he made must have been directed toward those scientists, apparently a majority, who have argued that the polio virus could be eradicated, but he selected a rather poor choice of words. That's the best that I can construe it at least.
Junquemama brings up the question about AIDS being introduced through contaminated polio vaccine. I don't know if she knew this, but ironically Wimmer was one of the scientists on the study that concluded that it was unlikely. I found lots of reference to Wimmer and the AIDS question in the search.
That's about all that I found about Wimmer that relates to his "breakthrough."
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junquemama
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posted on July 12, 2002 09:19:55 AM new
Wimmer's face........ 
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junquemama
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posted on July 12, 2002 09:48:03 AM new
.... mischievous evil.......
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antiquary
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posted on July 12, 2002 11:17:47 AM new
Judging from that picture accompanying the story, Wimmer does look like he could sprout horns most any time, doesn't he. Or maybe it's that there's a hint of Dr. Faustus about him.
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auroranorth
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posted on July 12, 2002 04:25:12 PM new
Uh, no, Parvo is believed to be a mutation of the feline panleukopenia virus. Since its appearance in the late 1970's, it has mutated *again*.
I know that, why is it that a lot of people think they are the only authority on anything.?
Now I will repeat myself it was intentinally released it was intentionally manufactured by over filtering the feline panleukopenia virus. What you are taking about are sub strains like 2b which seesm to be the most prevalent and virulent. and this appears more to be biological divergence than genuine mutation, at any rate I stand by my information that it was an intentional eastern block release.
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bunnicula
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posted on July 12, 2002 10:19:25 PM new
And your sources are...?
Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
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auroranorth
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posted on July 12, 2002 10:47:57 PM new
and then you have the gaul to talk about the government what next ask where my papers are?
It was obvious from your post that you went and read something written by someone somewhere and that you made you an armchair expert. You do not have any first hand contact with this particular virus.
Who I asociate with to obtain information like this does not concern you.
Instead prove me wrong.
Better yet do some research on this and several other well known viral outbreaks and you will see an ongoing rather sinister series of supposedly unrelated incidents like the number of new aids cases just happening to match the number of free immunizations years ago in several african countries.
Just as a footnote to prove I do have an accurate grasp of the matter you will also find much to read about corona virus, but I can promise any pet owner this if your a breeder and you administer vaccine that has corona with the parvo vaccine or do 2 seperate both at the same time you will have animals that contract parvo because the corona vaccine inhibits the parvo vaccine and that is a dirty little secret in the vaccine industry.
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bunnicula
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posted on July 12, 2002 11:32:57 PM new
It was obvious from your post that you went and read something written by someone somewhere and that you made you an armchair expert. You do not have any first hand contact with this particular virus.
Au contraire, I have. I have nursed an entire litter (20 puppies!!!) that came down with parvo. They'd been vaccinated, but the mutated form resisted the vaccine that controlled the original version. Lost 5 of the pups, spent a fortune to insure the others survived, but since the virus can damage the survivor's heart, had to sell them all as pet quality. A breeder of Rottweilers I knew at the time lost almost her entire kennel to the new strain as well.
Just as a footnote to prove I do have an accurate grasp of the matter you will also find much to read about corona virus, but I can promise any pet owner this if your a breeder and you administer vaccine that has corona with the parvo vaccine or do 2 seperate both at the same time you will have animals that contract parvo because the corona vaccine inhibits the parvo vaccine and that is a dirty little secret in the vaccine industry.
Uh, no. The particular CCV vaccination you are referring to was a live virus vaccine introduced in 1983 but was pulled from the market when adverse reactions were seen. The same with a modified live vaccine introduced later. What is used today in the US is an inactivated or "dead" vaccine.
All of which still does not substantiate your claim that the Parvo virus was deliberately created and released by an "eastern" power...
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