posted on July 23, 2002 09:15:55 AM new
I have mixed feelings about this. It is the first time, I believe, that Israel has actually targeted civilians. (Though not the first time civilians have been killed.) Just a couple of days ago, Al Aqsa threatened to target the families of Israeli cabinet ministers who supported deportation of suicide bombers' families to Gaza.
In the Middle East, even in civilized communities, there is a deep, cold place where people still understand "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth."
I am still sorting my feelings out. No doubt the Palestinian terrorist groups have declared war on Israel. I don't know how the situation can be resolved without more bloodshed.
posted on July 23, 2002 09:33:18 AM new
Looks like the Israelis said - "OK we can play by those rules."
Now they can figure that if they live in an apartment building with a dozen other families that does not mean they won't be fired on. Better adapt to the new rules fast.
posted on July 23, 2002 03:11:35 PM new
Would you feel the same if the Palestinians bombed Sharon's neighborhood in order to kill Sharon and as part of this mission, his family and civilians in the neighborhood were killed?
posted on July 23, 2002 03:49:17 PM new
As an objective act of war, yes I would accept an attack on Sharon. That does not mean I support the Arabs winning the war or the objectives of the war.
The Arabs tried to do just that in the 1950s, the 1967 war and the 1973 war.
We have a democracy that the Arab world wants to destroy. I do not want the Arabs to do that.
The Arabs are the ones where the fault lies for any "innocents" being killed. They have attempted on several occaisions, with the express threat to destroy Israel and kill all jews, through conventional military efforts. It didn't work, they lost. Now they are trying to do the same thing with unconventional means. The objectives of the Arab world are still the same.
If the Arabs want to associate and be around combatant military commanders, terrorists, bankers for terrorists, suppliers of material for terrorists, leaders of terrorists, they must accept the risk of being destroyed with them.
If the Arabs wish to kill Sharon and those around him they are welcome to try, and accept the consequences.
Israel has defeated the united Arab forces in every war and against overwhelming odds. The Arabs have refused to accept defeat.
What does a just people do when their enimies refuse to accept conventional military defeat ? You do what the US and its allies did to Japan and Germany in WWII, you pummel them into ruin and re-build them. The alternative is a world filled with terrorism, uncertainity, murder, and suffering far worse than the cure.
It must be done soon too. The longer the West waits, the closer these people are to having WOMD.
posted on July 23, 2002 05:02:34 PM new
You're welcome Helen.
Don't think that your and others concerns are unwarranted. Without your detestation of war and death some might find it their life's vocation.
But when we are faced with a society that wants to destroy our way of life and kill us all, I don't think diplomacy and appeasement will suffice.
I don't think a Palestinian state will appease the Arabs. I don't think that total withdraw from the Persian Gulf and finding another energy source will appease the Arabs.
When their school books tell their children to kill jews and americans, there is nothing we can do but destroy this society or ourselves one day be destroyed.
This hatred and thirst for murder throughout the Arab world can not be abated through peaceful means. We knew this to be true about Germany and Japan. Both societies had to be destroyed at the cost of millions of lives.
I truely hope I am wrong. But what I see is the zealous march down this path by the Arab world. They have rejected peaceful association, peaceful assimilation, and have opted for extermination of jews and americans.
It is time to look at these two competing world views and make a rational choice of which cultural will dominate the earth. I will take American democracy with all its warts over the best the Arab world has to offer.
Our nation is going to have some extremely tough choices to make in the near future. That choice is between pre-emptively destroying those that are on a course to destroy us, or ourselves be destroyed or be severly wounded beyond repair.
posted on July 23, 2002 06:44:50 PM new
As far as being next to a target my wife took the day off when Pres. Bush and the Polish Prez. visited her university last week.
It was not a political statement at all. Just the fact he would be in the next building over across a narrow street and they would lock the campus down tight for 2 hours.
She has a Mom in adult day care and they expect to be able to call her anytime to come get her if there is a problem. Also the risk of being near any public figure that might be attacked. Look what happened to Reagans press secretary Brady! Well she is not compensated at all for any risk.
posted on July 24, 2002 09:03:32 AM new
Follow-up interview with Shimon Perez here.
Looks like Israel is using PLO tactics. Commit mayhem, then condemn the act. Hey, drop a one-ton bomb on a civilian neighborhood, what do ya' think is going to happen?
I do believe statements that Israel has held back on this type of response, until now. The situation is getting desperate. One concern I have is that Israel will resort to a kind of can you top this? response as in the 1970-80s. In southern Lebanon there were clear targets. Not so in the Palestinian refugee camps.
posted on July 24, 2002 11:28:14 AM new
While I would have wished it could have been done differently, I certainly understand. They wanted this Hamas leader badly. Did what it took to get him.
Suprised at Bush's response....but have heard it's because there is some clause/agreement between the US and Israel about using US purchased weapons only for defense.
If we knew Bin Laden was in that apartment building, and continually hid himself amoungst civilians...would we have acted differently that Israel did? I don't know.
posted on July 24, 2002 01:20:22 PM new
The US may have sent troops in for the same situation, but the last time the IDF sent troops in for an operation like this they had 28 soldiers killed.
I hope everyone remembers that soldiers are people too. It costs soldiers their lives when we send them into hostile areas with severely limited rules of engagement.
The "innocent civilians" know who these terrorists are, and how they operate. They purposely hide out among civilians with full knowledge that it is unlikely that the IDF will bomb them. They nestle among the civilians as a tactic.
I hope we see more attacks like Israel just accomplished. It sends the right message to the terrorists and those that knowingly live among them.
The US has couched in Bush's rhetoric that those that knowingly harbor terrorists will suffer the same fate. Israel just showed that it was more than empty threats.
I think the US response of calling the bombing "heavy handed" was too soothe the Egyptians and Saudis in the present negotiations. But I think behind the scenes it was supported.
posted on July 24, 2002 04:16:19 PM new
I wonder who Saddam is going to give the check too? Most of the family was wiped out. I am really torn on this one. One side does say it was heavy handed, the other says good job, maybe this will teach them.
.
Reality is a serious condition brought on by a lack of alcohol in the system
posted on July 28, 2002 03:50:13 PM new
>>>Israel called Shehade a "known terrorist" blamed for hundreds of terror attacks and scores of casualties.<<<
I'm sure he killed lots of inocent israely
people so it's not like they didnt have a reason to go after him...
Jihad propaganda is being done with Mickey Mouse telling the palestinian children to pray for blood of jews to flow through the gates of Jerusalem, most of them as young as 3-4 , so from early age they are being told to hate.
I'm jewish,so as far as I'm concerned...
I'm not concerned for people like that at all!
you had one bad attack on your counrty,
(please note I dont mean that badly, sadest thing that ever happend in my life! but
try living in Israel and have them attack you daily...even though on smaller scale,
still those who are killed are as inocent as the ones on 9/11)
