Who's fault is it? Anyone want to share their opinions on either this lawsuit or similar ones?
My opinion is unless someone was holding a gun to their heads, they need to take personal responsibility.
[ edited by Linda_K on Jul 25, 2002 09:49 AM ]
posted on July 25, 2002 10:15:37 AM new
I am fat and struggling with my weight but NO - I don't blame other people for my problems.
They forgot to add the usual; crap that it is classist racist genocide for offering such good deals that let you super size if you are poor for pennies more.
posted on July 25, 2002 10:29:00 AM new
It is a sticky wicket for sure, however, the Fast-Food industry is not entirely free from blame. Learned a few things when I read the book "Fast Food Nation". Having a choice and taking personal responsibility are things that the Fast Food industry has worked to eliminate in the many years it has been in existence. And it has been quite successful in its efforts. Fast food markets to young children, the younger the better. This ensures "hooking" them early so they will become proper fast food customers. They locate their businesses near, EVEN IN SCHOOLS. This is their plan to continue supplying their "junkies" so to speak.
When located in schools, they are require to "make available" healthy alternatives, which are so generally neglected in preperation as to make them "visually unappealling" or as the students says "EWWW, GROSS!!" And why should the school make the healthy food more appealling, they receive money based upon VOLUME. The more fast food the kids eat, they more they make. Coke had an agreement with one school to sell up to 45,000 cases of Coke a year. But anything over that amount, the school received a bonus. So the principal had Coke machines put everywhere in the school and encourage teachers to allow Coke in the classroom, allow students to leave the classroom to go get a Coke, etc. One student in another school was suspended from school for wearing a "Drink Pepsi" shirt on a day when the school decided to do a photograph of the student body wearing "Drink Coke" shirts to "Honor Coca-Cola" and possibly win some cash award from Coke.
There is so much more, it was so unbelieveable. But I see it more and more each day. That personal responsibility is a high and mighter thing to throw around and Linda_K, you are partially right. But we have and still are being brainwashed from birth. Why now and not then, because in the last few years, the fast-food industry has faltered, people HAVE been taking personal resonsibility. So the Fast Food industry has doubled their efforts, but in doing so, they exposed their hand, becoming blatant in their methods. Now alot of people see it and are taking action.
Is it the guy's fault....yes
Is it the Fast-Food Industry's Fault...Yes
.
Reality is a serious condition brought on by a lack of alcohol in the system
[ edited by mlecher on Jul 25, 2002 10:31 AM ]
Maybe I should sue beer commercials because it made my friends alcoholics. Ya think? Or maybe I should sue the local bakery because its all sweets and could cause problems with my health.
Everyone has a choice in what to stick in their face. I remember when McDonalds first started putting signs up that said "1 million served"...everytime they updated the board in front of the arches, it would be higher, and higher. They kept track, once upon a time. I also use to faithfully eat Taco Bell, and McDonalds too, when I was in my teens. I still eat Taco Bell stuff, but rarely, and only when I have a hankering (addiction craving?) for a Enchirito with no beans, extra meat and cheese, light on the sauce. I dont eat at McDonalds at all, unless I crave (another addiction?) their fries..and thats it. Dont like their burgers, but their fries are yummy. So, maybe I should sue them both, for thinking about the taste and then letting my mind take over that I GOTTA have that enchirito or fries, regardless of what it does to my heart.
Hogwash. Just another sue happy idiot who wont take responsibility for his own actions in stuffing his face.
posted on July 25, 2002 10:50:58 AM new
gravid - Hope you know that doesn't make me feel differently about you. We all have our struggles ...just in different areas.
Sorry that you see it that way mlecher. That personal responsibility is a high and mighter thing to throw around and Linda_K, you are partially right. I do believe we are the only ones who are responsible for our own decisions.
But I also agree with most of what you said about how the fast food industry is ...that the Fast Food industry has worked to eliminate in the many years it has been in existence. Sure it has....agreed...but what I was interested in learning was do you think when we fall into the 'entrapment' of the fast food industry then we should be able to sue them for it?
posted on July 25, 2002 11:12:41 AM new
Not worried too much about what people think or I'd never function.
Truth is I followed a restricted calorie diet last month my doctor gave me. Even came in over a period of time 200 caloies a day under what he asked. When I was done I weighted within a pound of what I started. He felt I should have lost a pound a day.
That shows how much doctors know about dieting right now.
At the start of the month I will start the Atkins diet. Never tried it but all the experts rant and rave like it is against some religeous principle if you mention it - so it must be good.
posted on July 25, 2002 11:20:32 AM new
gravid - You're right. Our friend who's probably about 150#s overweight...has also been placed on a very restrictive diet...and is having little success. There is a lot the medical community needs to learn.
I'm sure you're going to research the Atkins diet, but please be careful. Not knowing your age, I want to mention that 'some' older patients have had kidney problems when on that diet for too long. Be safe.
Hep....I agree...too many people want to put the blame for what they choose to do, on someone else.
posted on July 25, 2002 11:22:13 AM new
Is the Atkins diet the one where you eat all red meat, cut out all pastas, etc?
About the lawsuit.... its such a crock... they want money, this country is full of sue happy people
If they are gonna go after fast food chains then they BETTER go after food distibutors to supermarkets that sell potato chips, ice cream, candy, their own type of 'fast food' the deli in the supermarket and on and on and on....
These people are going to lose......the suit I mean
posted on July 25, 2002 11:26:24 AM new
The atkins diet is what we should be eating, meats, vegetables and fruits, and some grains. The whole kidney thing is a myth. Has anyone taken notice to the media coverage the low-carb diets are getting lately? All the local doctors are using it here, so I might try it too. The food pyramid is a disaster!
posted on July 25, 2002 11:29:53 AM new
Gravid, if you've increased your exercise regimen, the weight could be from a build-up of muscle. I've always found dieting frustrating if I watch pounds. I can gain three pounds, but go down a dress size by changing fat to muscle.
I went to a nice restaurant with my husband on Saturday for our anniversary. When the salad came, I thought to myself that it was a rather small size. The entree, accompanied by grilled vegetables, was delicious yet small. I even had room for dessert. The portion sizes really surprised me, but the clientele is really not after more but better. It was a remarkable contrast to all the chain restaurants and fast food joints in the area where bigger passes for better.
I think a little personal responsibility is in order here. What bozo doesn't know that fries are loaded with salt (and sugar). There's no way you'll convince me that that woman gained all that weight by eating two meals a week at a fast food restaurant.
posted on July 25, 2002 11:34:17 AM new
The Atkins diet you stop all carbs for two weeks - very restrictive. No more than 20 grams a day for two weeks. Yes you have to have good kidney function to do it. That is also a reason they have you drink lost of water.
Then after you have made your body switch over into starvation mode by those two weeks of no carbs you can start easing back into having some in your diet.
You are allowed all meat/fish/eggs/shellfish/oils nuts vegetables with very low strtch and sugar - greens - scallions - mushrooms - tofu - limited cheese
There is really enough there to have quite a varied menu for the first two weeks even.
I can do a lot with tofu and shellfish alone.
I love spinich and brocolli.
Scambled eggs with tofu onions and bacon bits. - wonderful.
Crab bisque with celery sticks and cream cheese and a spinich salad. See? - sounds like a decent meal.
I have never had high cholesterol no matter what my diet.
Nothing else has worked. May as well give it a shot.
[ edited by gravid on Jul 25, 2002 11:37 AM ]
posted on July 25, 2002 11:42:54 AM new
I don't get much exercise because I have arthritis so bad. That is when I started really putting the weight on - when my activity was limited by pain. I am doing a little in the pool where I am supported - but I have some major problems with the pain and I tried a narcotic patch for awhile but they give me an alergic reaction. The skin gets boils and then scabs over hard. It is an ongoing thing learning how to deal with all the interrelated problems.
The doctor now is talking about a gastric bypass but I want to try the Atkins first before doing something so drastic.
posted on July 25, 2002 11:52:30 AM newhe whole kidney thing is a myth
You might want to go study some physiology, blairwitch. That diet induces ketosis. He doesn't seem to have heard of the glycemic index either. If an MD told me to follow the Atkins diet and I did, I'd be compost.
As to the suit, was this person forced to eat there? Of course not. OY!
I used to love Enchiritos when I was in college. You have the right to an informed opinion -Harlan Ellison
posted on July 25, 2002 12:02:04 PM new
Gravid, definitely try the Atkins Diet before considering seriously gastric bypass surgery. A co-worker of my husband had that bypass surgery and died as a result of complications. It's a procedure of last resort.
I know what you mean about trying to find the right balance when dealing with exercise and physical ailments. I had an itchy skin rash that was misdiagnosed by my GP and several other GPs in that practice. Finally I pitched a #*!@ in the office and demanded a referal to an allergist or dermatologist. The dermatologist took one look at the rash and told me what it was. She ordered a skin biopsy to confirm it. Long story but the rash has an unknown cause and no known cure. Specialists think it's caused by heat and a reaction to sweat. How do you exercise and not work up a sweat? Finally I decided that I would drink so much water that I would flush this pest out of my system and I'd exercise to do it. It worked. After three or four years with this rash, I'm free of it.
Swimming is good exercise. A few of my older friends take water aerobics classes and have lost weight. It easier on the joints.
[ edited by saabsister on Jul 25, 2002 12:03 PM ]
posted on July 25, 2002 12:04:59 PM new
Just like all other corporations, profit is their guiding light and to hell with responsibility to the health or welfare of people.
They advertise this crap to children and attract them with toys and when they grow up, they are addicts.
They are even serving the junk at school for lunch.
posted on July 25, 2002 12:33:50 PM new
The schools have a responsibility to serve healthier foods. Kids do in fact get accustomed to eating fatty, starchy foods almost exclusively. A little creativity goes a long way. Fast food chains have NO responsibility to serve anything other than fresh food.
posted on July 25, 2002 12:45:49 PM new
Sorry so many of you feel the way you do. We all have been tremendously brainwashed throughout our lives. The Fast Food industry is one of the more insidious ones. In this present time of two-income, always on the run family life when a sit down dinner is an impossibility, they position themselves as the easy and convenient SOLUTION to a busy schedule. Never do they mention that even the eating of even one of their burgers is more unhealthy than nutritious. You can ask for the nutritional statement on their food, but don't hold your breathe waiting for them to find it. Or they will tell you where to SEND for it. But they never, never, ever openly post it. Sales would drop incredibly (a Burger King in a nearby mall tested it by posting it openly...they went out of business). The personnel are instructed to make near impossible to find for customers, but easy to find if it is a inspector. The cigarette companies have been sued for the same reason, not having full disclosure.
Now for some comments on the Atkins diet, gravid.
It is a hell of a diet. You can lose alot of weight. However, it is a dangerous diet, very dangerous. Not in itself, but people's screwed up attitudes towards diets. IT IS ONLY A TEMPOARY DIET, I believe 6 weeks at the most. Do not, repeat, do not go over the recommended time limit. What has hurt most people is since 6 wks worked well, 12 would be better. Having only proteins and fats for 12 wks WILL KILL YOU!
KEEP IN CONTACT WITH BODY AND YOUR DOCTOR. If your body doesn't feel right, it probably isn't. And your doctor should be monitoring you.
REMEMBER, IT IS ONLY A TEMP DIET. Be prepared at the end to go to another normal diet. A normal, balanced diet that you are going to have to live with for life.
.
Reality is a serious condition brought on by a lack of alcohol in the system
posted on July 25, 2002 12:48:32 PM new
I had no idea you were considering surgery gravid. That must be a big decision for you to make. Can I just rant a bit to you?
Although you might not take me seriously, I have read up extensively on the benifits of a high fibre diet. Each person needs about 70 to 90 grams of fibre a day. The average is around 12. You don't have to believe me, but if you forgot about all the crazy diets and started to up your fibre to at least 75 grams daily, you will start to notice a difference after about a month. The benefits to your liver, stomach, intestines, colon, etc., are great. The idea is pushing everything through your system quickly so calories can't be absorbed as fast.
Up your Vitamin C to 3000 mg. daily. and take Vitamin A or Beta Carotene, and Vitamin E suppliments. A mineral suppliment is a good idea as you'll lose minerals with the high fibre process (if you know what I mean!)
After about a month gravid, you'll notice yourself not wanting the same foods you used to and you'll feel better mentally. I swear by this for controlling and maintaining weight and good health.
P.S. I eat a lot of vegetables and have them with regular dips and dressings, not low fat. I hate the taste of low fat food, so this way, I can still enjoy everything.
posted on July 25, 2002 12:54:22 PM newSure it has....agreed...but what I was interested in learning was do you think when we fall into the 'entrapment' of the fast food industry then we should be able to sue them for it?
have you heard of channel One in schools? Paid for by the industry so they can also add their commercials. Imagine, 35 young minds per room, in learning mode, being literally forced to pay attention to company advertisements and in order to continue receiving the funding, suppressing the mention of the negative health effects. They didn't "fall" into the entrapment, they were pushed.
.
Reality is a serious condition brought on by a lack of alcohol in the system
[ edited by mlecher on Jul 25, 2002 12:55 PM ]
posted on July 25, 2002 12:54:50 PM new
mlecher- Contrary to what you say, I have seen many fast food restaurants openly post nutrition information and I find it totally ridiculous to imply that a Burger King went out of business because they did so. In the past few days, some reputable medical experts have said that the Atkins diet is worth a second look. Do you know of anyone who died from eating just proteins and fats for 12 weeks? I am not personally defending the eating of fatty foods but just keeping you honest on some blatant misinformation.
posted on July 25, 2002 01:04:59 PM new
The Atkins diet is a good but temporary diet. That is the point I want to make, it is temporary. I know one person who did make themself sick by going too long. I don't know of anyone who has died. But my doctor has had to treat people who had really damaged themselves. The better word should have been CAN not WILL. Follow it exactly. Don't try to make it any better.
I never see the nutritional statements posted anymore. It is always "available on request"
.
Reality is a serious condition brought on by a lack of alcohol in the system
[ edited by mlecher on Jul 25, 2002 01:07 PM ]
[ edited by mlecher on Jul 25, 2002 01:15 PM ]
posted on July 25, 2002 01:05:21 PM new
mlecher, why is a sitdown dinner an impossibility with a 2 career family?
When I started cooking, I found it actually took less time to cook than to load up the kids and drive to the nearest fast food joint. (I really did time the two activities for a few weeks to compare) It does take about 5 minutes to plan the week's meals in advance. And this was working 12 hour night shifts. Sure, I had to learn. But I went from burning TV dinners and burning pots to meals that my husband who grew up with a resturateur dad says are good enough for a nice resturant meal. And my kids are very rarely sick.
Advertising is brainwashing only if YOU let it be. You have the right to an informed opinion -Harlan Ellison
posted on July 25, 2002 01:06:39 PM new
This just another attempt to blame some outside large mysterious force for one's own lack of responsibility.
Why target "fast food". How about bakeries? Everything in one of them is "bad". I sure hope companies try and make their products appealing to consumers. I hope they even do extensive studies to make sure everything is EXACTLY the way I want it.
I was over a friend's house recently and his wife made burgers for lunch. The kid of course goes "I'm not eatin' that, I want MacDonalds".
Now this is NOT proof of evil corporaion corrupting youth, it's simply parents who are imbeciles.
posted on July 25, 2002 01:10:13 PM new
Stusi - I always misspell your name..sorry.
The schools have a responsibility to serve healthier foods. If parents would work with their child's school or school board to change what their schools are offering them for lunch...that would be wonderful.
If they can't get changes made, then as a parent I would speak to my child and explain why I object to them eating fast foods. If that didn't work then I wouldn't give my child lunch money to purchase their lunch. I'd provide a well balanced meal in a bag.
I realize children share their 'goodies' but doubt few would be willing to continue funding my childs want for a big mac [or whatever] for very long.
[ edited by Linda_K on Jul 25, 2002 01:23 PM ]
posted on July 25, 2002 01:32:16 PM new
mlecher - They didn't "fall" into the entrapment, they were pushed. I agree they are really pushing them. Still a personal decision. A concerned parent is responsible for teaching the child healthy eating habits.
There are a lot of things children are taught or see while growing up. The parents need to set the example according to their values.
posted on July 25, 2002 01:38:52 PM new
Actually they only cut almost all carbs out the first two weeks then gradually start bringing the carbs back until you eventually have more than the government recommended minimum.
The state of ketosis is what makes the diet work- but attaining that state by what amounts to a fast is a lot different than being in that state due to disease despite having sufficient food. If you are eating normal and go into ketosis it is a big flag that something is drastically wrong! But that's what your body normally does to cope with a lack of food.
I am hearing that a gastric bypass has complication rates from 10 to 20% and that is way too high for me.
Everyone acts like junk food is something new.
We used to have the most God-awfull lunches in North Carolina when I was a kid in the late 50's. They would punish the kids if we were caught trying to trade items. I still shudder to remember the FRIED BOLONEY - uugh.
posted on July 25, 2002 01:43:34 PM new
About low-carb and giving up bread/cereal products...
I think you can still have whole wheat flour products, including breads, cereals, pastas made of wheat flour. It's refined sugar that causes the insulin-producer-thingy to go into over-drive, thereby causing cravings, and around, around (I think).
[ edited by Julesy on Jul 25, 2002 01:44 PM ]
[ edited by mlecher on Jul 25, 2002 10:31 AM ]
