I have been waiting. I have refused to invest. I have been angry. I am not alone.
When the DVD format came out years ago, the encoding allowed 16 Gigabytes of information to be stored on it. A worldwide consortium of DVD producers got together to agree on a standard format. But at that meeting, Sony insisted that the format only allow 4 Gigabytes of information to be passed to any one disk instead of the full capacity of 16 Gigabytes. We all know it now that DVDs will store up to two hours of video per disk.
Why the cutting down? I mean, if there was 16 Gigabyte capacity as there actually is, you could either a) cram a movie longer than two hours onto one disk - plenty of those; or, b) Increase the overall quality of the picture and sound due to the increase in capacity. So why did Sony want to reduce the available space for no particular reason? There is no technical reason why not, so it has to be marketing, right? What marketing ploy could that be, you ask?
First came DVD: the 4 Gigabyte capacity disk. When they feel that the market is saturated with enough 4 Gigabyte capacity disks and equipment, they plan to turn around and offer, call it "DVD2", the 8 Gigabyte capacity disk! Of course, to take advantage of playing those new disks, everyone who has already purchases a DVD player will have to go buy a newer one. You see where this is leading, don't you? And don't think that 16 Gigabytes is full capacity either! Remember that the Japanese have offered for corporate use the mini-sized CDROM disk that can hold up to 24 hours of sound and full-color video since the mid1980's!
Now they are going to get GREEDY!
What? You think that they're already greedy? Then try this out for size: the new proposed format, going from a red laser to a blue laser will mean that not only will you have to purchase new players for DVD2, but also replace all of the movies that you've purchased so far! That's right: Sony's new proposed higher-capacity DVD not only gives more capacity, but prevents your old DVDs to play on it! Hooray! Hooray for Sony!!! Hooray!
Of course, like a fly in the ointment, Toshiba wants any new standard to be able to play the old DVDs. That's nice of them, isn't it? I honestly think so. But what makes me burn up mad is when I tell people that we need to build these kinds of things here in America, they lecture me about how our costs can be undercut, just like what happened to us in the 1970's and 1980's to cause the never-ending recession of those years!
Now we have the WTO, who, when America gives a slight break to companies to help them to export and compete in foreign countries, the damnable WTO slams us for it! Read the article here and the RT thread here. So, if America starts to get flooded by Japan again if we make our own brand new disk format with say, a one terabyte capacity on it, will the WTO step in and fine Japan billions of dollars and allow us to punish them for it?
When I first read about Sony planning on screwing us years ago, I've refused to purchase a single DVD disk or player. I have also made my complaints and predictions known to as many people as I can, in order to educate them as well. And now my thoughts have come about to be true. Let my suggestion that America create their own DVD-type higher capacity disk work just as well. And if the Blu-Laser Standard does come out and it is incompatible with your DVDs, what will you do? Will you buy your movies again in the newer format?
posted on September 3, 2002 10:45:49 AM new
Yes, but the thing is that the whole problem is not just limited to movies. DVD use is still so new to most people that they have not had a chance to see where this new technology is going to lead them. Let me give you a few of my imaginings on this:
Your Cell Phone not only plays games in Color, but also has a digital camera built into it. You snap the picture and send it via email to your computer. That's here and available right now.
Imagine when the price of digital video cameras comes down to mass-market? Combine that with broadband Cell Phone technology and the next time that there's a demonstration in Portland, Oregon, there will be live cameras going there with live feeds that you can tune into a web site on and watch for yourself. No longer will we have to rely upon the controlled-media for our news - we'll simply make it ourselves.
But how will we distribute that? On DVDs of course! And if we make our own DVDs, then our computers need high-capacity backup devices. Right now, CDROM burning is an excellent way to back up all of those digital photos and stuff that we' all know so well. But with everyone moving from still frame photos to full video productions, we'll need giant-sized backup devices and that means DVD-style capacity and higher.
In five or ten years, it will be as Bill Gates and other shave envisioned: the game machine that plugs into your flat-paneled, wide-screen TV set will also house your computer and process your communications and video. You can use remotes to go anywhere, send info anywhere to anyone. We are there now or at least well inside past the leading edge of this technology.
Yes, we could all dump our computers, our cameras, our videos, our movies, our entire way of life and hearken back to a 1950's-1960's style of technology and live comfortably and cheaply that way - but who would want to?
posted on September 3, 2002 02:46:40 PM new
Sorry, no new grand conspiracy. There are MANY new formats. Relatively recently, there were 3 major new formats with several huge companies adhering to each. The mfg as a whole had agreed in principle to "agree" on 1 standard to prevent a VHS/Beta situation. However, they spent most of the time jockeying to use their own group's version. A monkey-wrench just went into the works because another technology which involves recording on multiple layers yielding hundreds of gigs on a single disk has been developed.
Can't stop the better moustrap if it fits people's needs.
posted on September 3, 2002 05:26:58 PM new
Well, that's certainly nice news to hear. However, when you read that part about the former VHS/beta format problem, the author didn't know what he was talking about.
To make it short: The Japanese had the international patent rights to Beta. Amereican companies wanted to license the technology and produce beta-compatible machines locally. Japan refused. So American companies came out with VHS format, which purposely did not have the same format! While the quality is much poorer than Beta, you could record two hours more onto a single VHS tape than Beta offered. But that didn't push Sony over the edge. What happened was that somehow, the American VHS companies made Hollywood movie studios agree to stop releasing movies in Beta format. After that agreement gelled, Sony gave up the Beta Ghost, as it were. Instead, they held off on DVD for years until they could purchase Hollywood and all of the major studios so that Americans could never again use that ploy to defeat them. That's not a conspiracy theory, it's the actual history and events.
posted on September 3, 2002 06:15:54 PM new
Now the real story.
"So American companies came out with VHS format"
VHS was developed and licensed by JVC.
"While the quality is much poorer than Beta".
Both put out the same resolution 230 lines. The Beta tape loading path initially allowed for better effects than VHS. You will find no test articles from the period that say "Beta is better". And the "Beta is Better" crowd in blind tests could never find the Beta machine with any significant margin. Beta for the LONGEST time offered only 1 hr record times (Beta 1 speed AND better quality than VHS). VHS almost immediately (because of consumer demand) went to a 2 hour mode. VHS immediately jumped ahead in sales and never left, increasing almost geometrically. It was months and months before Beta went to Beta 2, by which time the race was over. The on the fence licensees all having joined the VHS camp by then.
Hollywood continued to issue movies in both VHS and Beta up until the very end. There was just nobody buying them in Beta.
posted on September 3, 2002 09:10:33 PM new
That story is baloney, DeSquirrel! I used to sell the machines since they came onto the consmer market. You could put two indentical TVs side-by-side, put an identical new same movie into one VHS format machine and the other into Beta format. You could ALWAYS tell the difference between the two: Beta always had the sharper picture. I remember this, because I usedd ot sell them for years and I often did these side-by-side comparisons for customers. Beta has about 15% to 20% better, sharper looking picture, which has nothing to do with the screen resolution in this case. VHS tapes and format turned out more fuzzy abd blurry than the Beta did.
Further, the VHS tape path inside the machine was and is much harder on the video tapes itself than Beta's design was, making VHS tapes wear out faster and VHS tapeheads wear out much faster.
Also, I recall when Beta tapes went to four hours and it wasn't at the last moment, the last gasp either. And as I pointed out earlier, the longer playing time did hurt Beta sales dramatically, but Hollywood had planned to stop producing movies in Beta format long before Beta died. I know because I was there in the thick of the battle. And where were you? Probably just your daddy's wet dream at the time!
posted on September 3, 2002 09:38:14 PM new
But how will we distribute that? On DVDs of course! And if we make our own DVDs, then our computers need high-capacity backup devices. Right now, CDROM burning is an excellent way to back up all of those digital photos and stuff that we' all know so well. But with everyone moving from still frame photos to full video productions, we'll need giant-sized backup devices and that means DVD-style capacity and higher.
We are in the process of putting all our old family videotapes onto dvd on the computer. In addition, I do a lot of backing up on DVD-R, and I've also copied my share of movies from rented disks..(call the RIAA, or whoever!!!) the 4.7 gig disks are getting cheaper by the day, and the burners prices have fallen thru the floor. My computer came with one a year ago, it does not have what I would call massive capacity, a 100gig drive and a 40 gig original drive, both internal. Currently you can buy a good 120 gig internal drive for under 200 bucks. For me, the technology has already more than paid for itself, so if I had to upgrade gear it would not matter much. It will be interesting to see how it falls out. Lots of stores are already phasing out there movies on tape, they are quickly going the way of cassette tapes, and good riddance I say..no more head cleaning, stretched and beat up/broken tapes....gotta love it, whatever the format.
posted on September 3, 2002 09:44:00 PM new
In 1980 a friend opened the 2nd Video Connection in NJ. Since that time I have helped out in sales, programming, et al. When that store opened the format wars were already over. Beta 1 was better than VHS, but became extinct on consumer machines when VHS provided the more useful 2hr mode. You will not find a test report declaring either format "better". And you also will not find any Consumer Reports panel review declare Beta 2 "the winner".
posted on September 3, 2002 09:50:41 PM new
"In addition, I do a lot of backing up on DVD-R"
Movies on DVD will not be obsolete for quite some time. But the flux in the recording end of DVD means buying a DVD recorder is like playing Russian roulette. The past issue of PC Mag had article by Dvorak about the shake-outs in DVD recording. One things for sure, a lot of people are going to get "burned" (no pun intended!) here.
posted on September 4, 2002 07:13:27 AM new
>230 lines is still 230 lines.
No, its not.
"IF" you started out with a crystal clear recorded source, THEN 230 lines is certainly the determining factor in picture clarity! However, images transfered onto tape and back again degrade - all without the help of 230 lines. There was a greater picture clarity loss recording onto a VHS tape than with Beta. Playback was also not so good as Beta. This is why a side-by-side comparison showed beta to be visibly superior. It had nothing to do with the lines of resolution on the TV.
Furthermore, I recall selling new beta machines well into 1984 and beyond. Your statistics are for prior formats.
posted on September 4, 2002 09:43:00 PM new
I'm sure when a dvd burning format becomes "standard" there will be a lot of folks who will feel burned because they bought the "wrong" format...for me, as I said, I've done hundreds of hours/gigs of burning family videos, still pics and commercial movies onto dvd-r, the gear I currently use was not expensive to begin with, and has already paid for itself in time saved and ease of use...as there is now a myriad of ways to transfer casette audio to cd and dvd, likewise the same possibilites for transferring video tape and even home film movies to dvd easily, I have no doubt there will be similar ways to re-record old dvd format home-burned disks on to what ever format Microsloth, Sony and Hollywood decide is to be the defacto standard...not worried about getting burned...often the folks who feel taken by tech are those who can't wait to have the latest and greatest, then don't use it once they have it until it has become "obsolete" a year or less later......
posted on September 5, 2002 10:38:52 AM new
Hey Ken you're going to have to clue me in about how the link negates anything I said. In fact the opposite seem true.
posted on September 5, 2002 01:26:14 PM new
Ken, I read that too. Whether or not the original patent for VHS was held by JVC does not negate the fact that Sony would not license American manufacturers to use it. American manufacturers were able to license the technology with VHS.
posted on September 5, 2002 01:28:40 PM new
>I have no doubt there will be similar ways to re-record old dvd format home-burned disks on to what ever format Microsloth, Sony and Hollywood decide is to be the defacto standard . . .
Prof, that sounds good and I am happy that you have such faith. But due to the RIAA Music industry, the Moive industry, and the Software industry, who are fighting and suing like crazy to prevent video tape movies from being transfered onto DVDs, I seriously doubt that in the years to come, that they will allow DVD copyright movies to be transfered to any existing new formats.
posted on September 5, 2002 01:33:15 PM new
If they wait to bring it to market too long there will probably be a completely new technology come along and beat them out of the market for their hesitation. It would not surprise me to see some solid state storage system - say printed on mylar and rolled up - come along and make the dic obsolete.
posted on September 5, 2002 02:24:42 PM new
That could be the case gravid. Memory devices such as the memory cards digital cameras utilize and similiar static memory devices, in my opinion will eventually win out over disc drives. The having no moving parts, which will increase the reliability and cost less to manufacture in most cases. How long it will take to come about who knows!
posted on September 5, 2002 05:33:12 PM new
" Whether or not the original patent for VHS was held by JVC does not negate the fact that Sony would not license American manufacturers to use it. American manufacturers were able to license the technology with VHS."
Sony began mass marketing of Beta VCRS in 1976. Zenith signed an agreement with Sony and began selling Beta machines in '77. In '77 JVC released VHS and quickly signed RCA to the format. By early '78 VHS sales were more than double Beta sales and no other American mfg would go near Beta, Zenith giving up in the early '80s.
An even though Ken's Sony link seems to say Sony was aghast that JVC "copied" their machine . The truth is JVC did not sign up because VHS was already "designed" and they saw no improvement.
Also:
"Comparisons between VCRs with similar features showed no significant differences in performance. In fact, most of the differences could only be seen with sensitive instruments, and likely would never show up on most consumer grade television sets. In particular, the qualitative differences between the two formats were less than the differences between any two samples from the same manufacturer."
posted on September 6, 2002 10:01:05 AM new
>to see some solid state storage system - say printed on mylar and rolled up - come along
That sounds really terrific, gravid. However, a one megabyte solid state chip about the size of a matchbox was created in the late 1970s for the home computer market that could digitally record and re-write all without moving parts. But for some reason, the floppy disk made it to the home computer instead. Maybe the Japanese will alow us poor Americans to experience the disk technology that allows up to 36 hours of video and sound to be recorded onto one mini-cdrom.
