posted on November 6, 2002 07:47:27 AM new
We were surprised at the way some of the different state initiatives went. Were there any that surprised you [in your state or another state]?
Like in our state, Arkansas, we were VERY surprised that the people in this state didn't vote to repeal the sales taxes on both our food and drug purchases. To me, this is the most hurtful tax to the poor. All need to eat and those who are taking drugs need to be. For those reasons alone, we were surprised it didn't pass.
And Arkansas generally is a strong democratic state.
posted on November 6, 2002 09:10:50 AM new
LindaK, Big surprize here,Tony Sanchez should have pulled in bigger numbers with the hispanic vote.Sanchez spent 100 million of his own money on this election.Something seems screwy to me,The hispanics need all the help they can get(visas,legal,houseing)Rick Perry is no ones hero,impatient little banty rooster.
posted on November 6, 2002 09:14:57 AM new
No suprised is Texas..The Democratic challenger for Gov was solidly beaten by Rick Perry (R). The people of Texas didn't want a Democrat (Tony Sanchez), (who owned a bank that laundered drug money), in our top office.
Gov Perry will continue the good work started by now Pres George Bush....
And I love it the Jeb Bush was reelected in Florida....I guess the Dems will blame that too on low voter turn out.
posted on November 6, 2002 09:21:05 AM new
The people didnt want a good old boy taking kick backs either,Good work,yeah if you count the most inmates fried.Not real good choices,all around,The lesser of 2 evils would have been independant.
posted on November 6, 2002 09:33:18 AM new
The state of Virginia had a surprise.
Well informed Tom Brokaw announced on the evening news last night that Senator John
Warner was running unopposed. Tell that to
the other two candidates who ran against him. They spent good money to run! They
were just not democrats or republicans. the
person with me had voted against Warner. Her
vote apparently doesn't count.
The FCC is now deciding whether if is
safe to allow the same companies to own and operate TV, radio, cable and newspapers in the same areas. Just what we need. We have such excellent communications networks now!
posted on November 6, 2002 10:02:15 AM new
junquemama - Isn't is surprising [all around] at the $$ being spent? Wow.
bear
aposter - LOL about being 'well informed' and running unopposed. I think there were a couple like that. I know what you mean about a third party though. Wish we could get a good, strong third party going.
posted on November 6, 2002 10:06:51 AM new
Here in Illinois we had an almost sweep of the top offices by the Democrats. It's not like it wasn't expected after the scandals.
The first time in 25 years (according to the news. I'm still trying to correlate 4 year terms with 25 years.) a Democrat has been elected to the office of Governor.
posted on November 6, 2002 10:12:19 AM new
junquemama
But the MAJORITY of TEXANS spoke their choice. As far as inmated fried, the govenor doesn't place them on death row, their own actions do that. It was their choice to do right or wrong..
posted on November 6, 2002 10:37:37 AM new
OT [calamity - Again, always so good to see you posting here. Wish you'd join us more often. Hope all is well with you and yours.]
posted on November 6, 2002 10:43:29 AM new
bear1949,Two men were almost fried here for a murder they didnt commit,dna freed them,dna testing is new in Texas.One of the men was so badly beaten in prison,he has the IQ of a small child and will have to be taken care of for the rest of his life.My money has to take care of him.When George was Gov.,He fried a young woman(guilt by assoc.)No reprieve,The next person was givin a reprieve and accused of hundreds of female deaths,His name, Lukas.
posted on November 6, 2002 10:49:26 AM new
"Walter Mondale loses in Minnesota and Georgia elects a Republican Governor" This would be a headline in an alternate universe, I don't know which of those two occurrences would shock me more; Together, wow! Everything I thought I knew about politics is stood on its head.
Inside Georgia, Tom Murphy, sort of our state legislature version of Jesse Helms, is out after more than 40 years, nearly 30 of them as Speaker of the House. This was a very powerful man in Georgia, more powerful than any of the Governors that served during Murphy's tenor. Speaker for Life Murphy gone. Another wow.
posted on November 6, 2002 10:51:23 AM new
The homeowners insurance rates were raised to another 700.00 to 1500.00 on most of the homes in Austin,5 months ago.Perry let it happen,And his big platform was to lower the insurance rates, Ha! Cause and effect.
posted on November 6, 2002 11:08:52 AM new
Donny - I'd appreciate hearing your opinions on why this happened.
junquemama - I think a lot of states are going to be experiencing the same increase in taxes IF the economy doesn't improve. Wow...that's quite an increase. In CA we had protection under Prop. 13. And here our property taxes are very very low, but the rumors are that's going to be changing soon.
posted on November 6, 2002 11:15:15 AM new
>This would be a headline in an alternate universe, I don't know which of those two occurrences would shock me more;
While neither party represents the majority of Americans, at least the Democrats haven't been telling voters that they DO represent them! Funny how a little white lie can get people to vote for you if only you'll tell them that you represent their interests.
posted on November 6, 2002 11:35:01 AM new
No surprises. It was common knowledge that the Republicans would take a beating for the 2000 Presidential election. It's almost a given for the sitting president to lose seats in the house and senate, history bears that out. There was a double wammy working against the Republicans. I think the governor of Florida was another example of the voters remembering 2000's election and a case of payback.
I suppose I better turn on the news and see just how bad things were for the Republicans. I'm prepared not to be surprised.
posted on November 6, 2002 11:42:09 AM new
LindaK,The effect has been,Not being able to pay city taxes on the homes,People are being nickel and dimed out of their homes.Summer energy costs kills us at the tune of 350.00 a month,Useing very little air.There is a summer cost and winter rate,has nothing to do with actual use.The poor people in east Austin have to make a decision every month,Eat or lights,Now that same decision is being made all over town.People try to move to the suburbs and small towns to escape the high costs of houseing,They have to move at least 100 miles.So here is something for you to look forward to,
posted on November 6, 2002 12:19:17 PM new
junquemama - Same thing happened in CA., energy issue aside. The voters rebelled and forced proposition 13 to be passed. Looks like your area is going to have to do something similar. I sure can understand your 'crying face'. boy...
posted on November 6, 2002 12:54:42 PM new
Well, Linda_K, as to Georgia...
Sonny Perdue, the Republican candidate, winning the Governorship of Georgia was so suprising it was almost THE big election story last night, it kept on getting brought up on whatever national channels I was watching. Since Governors are pretty much unimportant in the national scheme of things, for this to be brought up over and over again gives a sense of how shocking it was.
As of about a week or so ago, Perdue was 15 or 20% behind the incumbent Ga. Governor, Democrat Roy Barnes, there was no way Perdue was going to win. If you hadn't heard, Georgia has not had a Republican governor for 130 years, since the end of Reconstruction. Abraham Lincoln was a Republican, and that alone was enough to doom any Republican candidate for many many years. Of course, Georgia Democrats have never really been 'real' Democrats, they're conservative Republicans who call themselves Democrats, with a few exceptions, like Jimmy Carter, and even he wasn't "Liberal" like Northern Liberals are.
But Sonny Perdue hit on the one issue that Georgians would vote a Republican Governor in for - The presence of the Confederate Battle Flag on the Georgia State Flag.
Roy Barnes, faced with the possiblity that Georgia wouldn't be able to attract new industry, and would lose existing industry, because of the flap over the Confederate Flag being part of the Georgia State Flag, redid the State Flag in 2001. The pre-2001 Georgia State Flag was basically the Confederate Battle Flag with the Georgia State Seal squeezed over to the side. (Can't ever remember how to make a link, a picture of it is here - http://www.cviog.uga.edu/Projects/gainfo/gaflag.htm )
The new Georgia State Flag still has the Confederate Battle Flag in it, but much smaller - http://www.cviog.uga.edu/Projects/gainfo/newgaflag.htm
Roy Barnes (and Tom Murphy, who has been Governor in all but name for almost 30 years), did this without a public referendum. Sonny Perdue hit on this a few weeks ago, and found the one issue that would turn Georgia Political History upside down, and, in the last few weeks, Perdue kept on and on about that one issue, promising to bring to referendum the flag issue.
Tom Murphy was quoted, post-election, in the Atlanta paper, as saying something along the lines of that he could have assured his own re-election to the state legislature if he had drawn the redistricted lines of his own district differently, but he didn't do that because he wanted to favor his Democratic colleagues in adjoining districts, at his own expense. What a bunch of hogwash. Tom Murphy is an old political polecat, you can be sure he drew his own district in a way he thought would be most favorable to him, he hasn't stayed in politics for 40 years, and kept a lock on the whole state for 30 years, by being generous to his own detriment. The Georgia State Flag did Roy Barnes in, and put the final nail in Tom Murphy's coffin. Personally, I'm not sorry to see Tom Murphy go, no one who's elected by only one district should have such power over even Governors.
As for Mondale... The Alternate Universe scenario still seems most likely. I had a long discussion with my best friend about Minnesota politics and political history when Wellstone died, my friend's from Minnesota. We both immediately thought Mondale would be asked to step in. I was sure Mondale would accept, he was somewhat less sure. But we both thought, and he was absolutely sure about this, no-brainer, that if Mondale did accept, he was a shoe-in. Boy were we wrong.
The short political history of Minnesota is that the early settlers were politically radical when they arrived from the Scandinavian countries, and became even more radicallized as farmers and miners in Minnesota's "Iron Range." That radicalism has permeated Minnesota ever since, especially the Iron Range influence.
However, my friend did bring up, when we were having that discussion, that that has been changing. Like every other state, increased inter state mobility has changed Minnesota. People leave, non-natives move in. Was Mondale losing an indication that the change had progressed further than even my friend realized, or was it the Wellstone Memorial Service incident? Probably both, but more, I think, the first. Still, if Georgia Senator Zell Miller is a Democrat in name only, Coleman is, in some sense, his Republican counterpart.
Anyway, these were the most interesting off-year elections I can ever recall, lots of suprises all over the place.
posted on November 6, 2002 01:24:07 PM new
Thank you, Donny. I always enjoy reading your 'take' on issues. So informative to me. Your knowledge of history continually amazes me.
It is odd/funny how people will take one issue, like your example of the conf. flag, and vote for that reason alone. Discounting all the other issues.
And on Mondale... Like every other state, increased inter state mobility has changed Minnesota. People leave, non-natives move in. Yes, could be. We're just starting to experience that here in our state. And maybe it's just like the flag issue, one thing happens and voters discount everything else.
Was Mondale losing an indication that the change had progressed further than even my friend realized, or was it the Wellstone Memorial Service incident?
We have one couple from Minnesota here on our road. They're also retired and live 1/2 the year here and 1/2 in Minnesota. We've been discussing the whole issue of Wellstone's unfortunate death and what they think about what happened.
They are of the opinion that what happened at the memorial service was so disrespectful as to have turned many off. Not so much as an insult to Mondale but rather to the democrats in general for using it to their advantage. Especially when they heard the DNC leader, McCaulif [sorry, my spelling again] blame the relatives of the family for how it turned into a political rally. They tell us people from Minnesota have high standards of what is appropriate behavior at certain times. That's only one couple's opinion, but we think highly of them as people.
posted on November 6, 2002 01:38:26 PM new
Forgot to mention - They also said Mondale's age might have made a difference to some voters. Who knows, but there is much to be said for the elders moving aside to let the younger generation step up and take over. Kind of like grandparents raising their grandchildren...a lot is not understood/accepted by the grandparent that might be accepted by the parents.
I'd like to say this for Mondale. I heard his speech this morning, and he was VERY gracious in accepting his defeat. Not sure if that's in part because he's thinking "Thank heaven that's over and I can go back to my retirement" or not.
posted on November 6, 2002 01:39:42 PM new
I think you're absolutely right, Linda, about Minnesota people's firm standards about appropriate behavior. Your comment about your friends reminds me of an anecdote my friend told me a few years ago, about a family funeral he attended. The clergyman leading the service (someone not originally from Minnesota, my friend made sure to point out) started talking about how grief was natural, and everyone should feel free to express that grief publically, right now. The whole lot of these good Minnesota Lutherans just sat there stone faced and looked at this guy.
posted on November 6, 2002 01:53:22 PM new LOL....yes I can just picture that...knowing our neighbors and how they react to some of the issues that go on in our neighborhood. LOL
posted on November 6, 2002 04:23:00 PM new
I didn't know how many of the races in the nation would turn out, but I wasn't particularly surprised. Basically I think that it mirrors the feeling of confusion and insecurity in the nation and the strength of the neoconservative/fundamentalist alliance, which has been successful and will likely continue to meld. Of course, I believe that our movement toward totalitarianism is inexorable, baring a major natural or manmade devastation, so movements in that direction, though personally repugnant to me, don't especially surprise me either.
sp
[ edited by antiquary on Nov 6, 2002 04:35 PM ]
posted on November 6, 2002 06:12:39 PM new
my district, which is newly created, and completely rural, elected a congressman who is in his late 40's, and who has not lived in this state since he graduated from high school! A republican carpetbagger who lives in Virginia (no rub against Va, it's a real pretty state), he waved lots of flags and made sure he shouted "UNDER GOD" real loud when the pledge was said at all the picnics he went to, beyond that, he doesn't appear to have a platform, other than supporting the Resident.
For some odd reason we elected a Dem. governor, so that's a plus, she'll be able to put a cap on the extreme right wingers and real estate developers who control the state legislature, if she has the cojones....
All that's left now is to sit back and wait for the body bag counts to begin...and to support fully the war on terror..maybe it'll be as successful as the wars on drugs, and poverty..
posted on November 6, 2002 08:40:24 PM new
Not to much of a surprise in Indiana, with exception of the Libertarian Party,they pulled 5 to 8 %of the votes in the areas where they ran for office. Up from 2 to 5 % last election.
Bush helped Select 2 Moderate Republicans to run in Two Heavy Democratic Congressional districts that were redistricted, Both won. Not sure, I believe The Moderates took control of the Indiana State Senate.
National.
All of the Senators,Hand picked by Bush, were Moderates, all won with the exception of South Dakota and that still may happen. One will be in the Louisiana run off. I think she will win. Why?, because the two Republicans, on the runoff with her, will not be involved & the Democrat is a liberal. This alone will make it a close race. She will pull the democrat moderate vote.
Bush has found about moderates. They tend not to vote for a conservative or liberal ,no matter which party, during a election. It was the vote of the Moderates that changed the power in the Senate & increased his hold in the House. This does not include the democratic moderates that vote with the conservatives in the house. Zeb Miller is a Moderate Democrat in the Senate. Most elected Moderates vote with Conservatives. The new Maryland & Georgia Governors are Moderates. Not sure, But I think Moderates have elected 3 State Democrat Governors. Does anyone know for sure?.
Moderates, are an interesting political group. Not Many vote Federal elections but, they sure turned out in this one.
posted on November 6, 2002 08:46:26 PM new
While these people may may have ran as "moderate" Republicans in the Fed elections, my bet is that they will not be so "moderate" when it is crunch time or there will be huge problems for Bush. We will now have right wing federal judges appointed and approved and right wing policies passed through Congress.
I will be shocked if these "moderate" republicans question Bush on anything.
posted on November 7, 2002 06:14:46 AM new
Guess big bucks won this one. What a pity! The people of Oregon listened to multi-nationals. I can't remember when labeling for normal processed foods started. Wasn't there alot of hype about food getting more expensive because consumers would have a right to now? Well, that is $5 million that won't be used to strong arm other countries.
But then it looks like Republicans came out it numbers for this election. Big business agendas would naturally win. I would love to see some of Biotech's advertising in Oregon.
PORTLAND, Ore. — Oregon voters Tuesday roundly rejected a ballot initiative that would have required labels on food containing genetically engineered material, handing a victory to big food producers and biotechnology researchers.
Early returns showed more than 73 percent of voters rejecting Measure 27 compared with 27 percent in favor, prompting local media outlets to declare that the initiative, which would have produced the first such labeling law in the country, had been defeated.
Campaign finance reports showed the food industry and other opponents raised more than $5 million to combat the initiative. Much of the money went to advertisements warning of the higher costs it would bring to restaurants, grocery stores, and school cafeterias.
"Oregonians have resoundingly rejected the efforts of the proponents of Measure 27 to scare people about the foods they eat," said Pat McCormick, spokesman for the Coalition Against the Costly Labeling Law. "I think it affirms their confidence in (Food and Drug Administration) regulation of foods in this country."
Genetic modification, in which DNA is transferred from one organism to another, can boost farm yields, protect against diseases, and provide other benefits. It is used in some 70 percent of processed food in the United States as well as animal feeds.
Advocates argue GM foods reduce the use of pesticides and chemical fertilizers, while opponents question the safety of what some have derisively called "Frankenfoods."
Initiative supporters vowed to press the labeling issue, despite the setback.
"I don't consider it a loss. We may lose this election, but this is just the beginning of a movement here in Oregon and across the nation," said the measure's chief petitioner, Donna Harris.
posted on November 7, 2002 06:18:47 AM new
Reamond,
I will be shocked if these "moderate" republicans question Bush on anything.
So will I.
And, if the Bush administration is allowed to operate unquestioned and unchecked by Republicans, Democrats and the rest of the world, this country and possibly the entire world is doomed.
Tom Brokaw announced on the evening news last night that Senator John
LOL....yes I can just picture that...knowing our neighbors and how they react to some of the issues that go on in our neighborhood. LOL