posted on November 8, 2002 12:37:49 PM new
Great political system we have, Minority Rules. If 40% of Americans don't vote, and the winner gets 55% of the vote, he won with 33% of all potential voters. 67% of Americans have to live with the decisions of the minority winner.To make it worse, 10% vote based on looks or who smiles most; 10% vote based on who they think will win, not on who they want to win, so the winner gets elected based on the intelligent vote of 25% of the population.Since politics relies on psyhcological manipulation, just like advertising for products, our system promotes those who can do a better job of brainwashing and hype. America is great isn't it? It's not much different from a dictatorship when the numbers are all added up.
posted on November 8, 2002 01:10:25 PM new
Wrong. In a dictatorship, the citizens aren't *allowed* to vote--or are given the munificent choice of voting for one candidate a la Saddam Hussein.
As to our system....if people refuse to get off their butts and VOTE, they have no room to complain about who gets elected or what gets passed. The same goes for being informed about issues & candidates. It never ceases to amaze me that people just don't exercise their right to vote. Of course, if Bush & Co. get their way, that right may get whittled down to nothing and the question will be moot--in which case folks will wake up & start screaming when they no longer have the right to vote as they please. Censorship, like charity, should begin at home; but unlike charity, it should end there --Clare Booth Luce
posted on November 8, 2002 03:56:51 PM new
I served on our city council for 6 years, sat through interminable public hearings, etc. I used to wish fervently that, before people were allowed to speak to us on an issue, they would first have to produce a card proving that they voted in the last election. Otherwise we'd be able to refuse their request to speak.
I'm sick of hearing complaints about our government from people who don't vote. They have forfeited their right to complain, I say.
posted on November 9, 2002 11:34:33 AM new
In a dictatorship, the majority live with a ruler they don't want; in a democracy the majority live with a ruler they don't want.
People who refuse to vote are making a vote against politics and against government, just like if I don't buy at certain stores, I don't support what they sell or don't like the store period. Non votes should equal a vote against our government.
Why should someone vote if they think the system is corrupt? On my ballot there were only three times where it said "non of the above." Who do these people vote for? Yes they can complain who gets elected because they don't support the choices.
Desquirrel, you're an imbecile and you robaby vote for imbeciles.
Roadsmith, you're a perfect example of the problem with out elected officials: Be brainwashed and vote for someone you don't like or sit down and shut up. Great idea there!
posted on November 9, 2002 12:27:59 PM new
I remember something from waaay-back....
In emerging South American democracies, the turnout was regularly 90+% even with the death threats from oppostion parties.
In the American democracy, it is often found that votes are coming from people whose names are found on the gravestones of the local cemetaries.
Simply said...
In South America, if you vote, you're dead!
In America, If you're dead, you vote!
This has been a joke, only a joke. Had this been a real situation you would have been instructed as to where you were to report for your servile reprogramming.
.................................................
I live in my own little world, but it is Okay...They know me here.
posted on November 9, 2002 12:31:49 PM new
quickdraw,
In a dictatorship, there is nothing you can do about it and if you try, you get shot. In a democracy, if you do not like the leaders, all you have to do is go vote to change it.
To state that 67% do not like the current government is unbased and I am willing to bet that if the Democrats has won, you would be celebrating all over the page regarding the great victory for liberalism.
The fact is of the people that voted, the majority has spoken whether you agree or not, you have to live with it for another 2 years.
posted on November 9, 2002 12:51:47 PM new
You know what, I do vote for changes but my candidates don't win. When the officials who get elected is based on who raised the most money, or who's most popular, this isn't a system set up for change.
67% who don't like the current government is based on current averages. A non vote equals nonsupport.
There were Democrats that have won, although I'm not a Democrat.
The majority has spoken, and the majority have voted for anyone but the winners. Yes I have to live with this pathetic government as does the majority and that's why we'll all suffer.
posted on November 9, 2002 01:03:14 PM new
I do not see an non-vote as non-support, and to say it is making an assumption that is not true. You do not know what the people that did not vote meant and to say it was non-support is jumping to a conclusion because your canidate lost. How can we have 67% non-support for the government with a President that has 64% approval ratings.
In a democracy, if you want a voice in the government you have choice. A non-vote is not a non-support vote, but a vote saying it do not care. If you do not vote, shut up and do not complain. If you want to complain, then vote.
As for that liberal line of this canidate has more money or has less money instead blaming it on the fact that maybe the voters just do not agree with the stance of the issues that the canidate took. Again, looking at past Tuesday, several Liberal ideas were put directly to the voters and were destroyed. In Neveda, Gay Marriage and Legalizing of Pot. Oregon, state wide health care, and Ohio drug treatment was defeated over prison time.
This election showed that the canidates that stayed center or a little to the right of the center won, the ones that went the left lost (with the exception of California). Even in Maryland, a Kennedy lost and lost big to a republican. As well as in Massachusetts a liberal democrat got beaten bad by a republican.
posted on November 9, 2002 01:47:24 PM new
"67% who don't like the current government is based on current averages. A non vote equals nonsupport."
Im beginning to wonder what planet most of the people who post here live on.
Saying that if 33% of an electorate votes for something means 67% are AGAINST it, doesn't make ME an imbecile. Actually, it makes you look pathetic. The "non-supported" government you refer to (assuming you mean the administration) has one of the highest approval ratings in decades.
Not too long ago, one of the famous wackos here declared, "the whole country is swinging dramatically to the left". I merely posted that they allowed their personal beliefs and values to so overwhelmingly eclipse rational thought as to become delusional. You can be of any opinion you want, but to deny reality is betrayal of one's own intellect.
Nobody with an eighth of a brain was "surprised" by the election (except maybe for a few specifics. The pollsters began predicting it months ago when the Democrats began flip flopping back and forth and playing partisan politics for personal gain. It made people furious.
posted on November 9, 2002 02:00:38 PM new
This is how the Dumocrats handled the campaign:
1) Block the vast majority of Bush's judicial nominees from even making it to the Senate floor for an up or down vote, even though they had the majority.
2) Vote to back Bush in the war on terror and then criticize him over it.
3) Back the Bush tax cut and then call for repealing it.
4) Cave into the labor unions and block passage of the Homeland Security bill, which most Americans of both parties want passed ASAP. And then of course criticize Bush over it.
In short, just oppose everything the President supports and puts forward. Please do the Republicans a favor and do the same next time.
Smart. Very Smart. (I say to myself while laughing)...
posted on November 9, 2002 03:07:55 PM new
Then again,I believe the democrats and republicans are in bed together.For the first time,Most everyone in Washington is a millionar,Or will be by the time they leave office.All anyone of them want, is to be voted in,The gravy train follows.
Is someone doing something for me? Are battles really being fought for our way of life? All I can count are the losses,No gains.The people in Washington are totally out of touch with what is really going on in the real world.Yes Im even mad at good old Bill and his pushing Nafta thru,Thats when the Co.s decided Mexico and all that cheap labor looked real good.The American people lost on that real big. 9/11 was sure a good excuse to turn tail and get rid of American jobs.The only good thing that came out of 9/11 was to show the crooks,Not all,but enough to slow down the way people work the stock market.People lost 3/4 of all their investments in the market,and the stock experts cant convince America their money is safe in the market.No the democrats will not make any waves,with Bush,and mess up the gravey train.The victors are behind the scenes,they are invisable to us,We don't count,and it matters not what we think.
A vote counts for what?
posted on November 9, 2002 03:20:24 PM new
The only way to get them to notice that we exist,Is with our money.Do not buy goods made in Mexico,Tiwan,Korea,China.Buy only the goods made in the US,includeing automobiles.Your money is the power,even a small amount,Buy American,Or buy used items.
At one time there were lables on products that read "Made in the USA",when was the last time, you saw that tag? Off my soapbox.
[ edited by junquemama on Nov 9, 2002 03:21 PM ]
posted on November 9, 2002 03:20:40 PM new
>Oregon, state wide health care,
thchaser200, a small correction FROM Oregon! We already HAVE state wide health care! However, it does not cover Critial Care. If you need a liver transplant for $100,000, it doesn't cover it. If you have a broken leg or a cold - that gets taken care of. The voters rejected the extending the health care system to TOTAL at a cost of an estimated $17 Billion dollars. With our current economy in Oregon a complete disaster (Republican-led state government, Democratic Governor), the voters can't add anymore to property taxes than they already do. When the economy gets better (if ever) AND a SENSIBLE plan to extend the current health care is proposed, you can believe that Oregonians will mostly be in favor of it.
It had NOTHNG at ALL whatsoever to do with "Liberalism" or "Conservatism".
Our State-wide health plan is FREE to: those without a job, students, the injured not on Medicare. A family of four (two adults, two kids) can have coverage for just a few bucks a month. It is a shame that all states do not have this AFFORDABLE saftey-net for destitute or low-income citizens. (Yes, middle-class can qualify too and pay a lot less than regular coverage.)
posted on November 9, 2002 03:27:06 PM new
junquemama
EXACTLY RIGHT! I'm mad as hell with the Democrats who did nothing because they were so afraid that they might lose a vote. What a bunch of lily livered wimps. Well, by dam, they lost anyway. I just hope that they can recover before the next election.
I'm going to do my best to find products made in the USA.
Helen
[ edited by Helenjw on Nov 9, 2002 07:05 PM ]
posted on November 9, 2002 07:51:11 PM new
I agree with Helen, the dems were a bunch of wimps. They should have spoken up on many issues and did not.
On Friday there was an interesting caller on News Friday Roundup-Diane Rhem Show (NPR). He said the same thing about the Dems and went on to ask why the media hadn't covered Bush
and the Harkin company, a couple other things and the fact that Laura Bush had killed a friend with her car when a teenager. I hadn't heard that about Laura and the car accident and it is apparently a good point to bring up. (If I can still say that without going to jail, that is.)
The Republicans spend millions of taxpayer's dollars finding the tiniest detail about the Clintons and anyone they ever touched, but the fact that Laura was speeding, ran a stop sign and killed a friend who happened to be driving in another car has apparently never been researched much. A google search said the case was foggy or vague. I am not a tabloid reader, Entertainment tonight type watcher so maybe it was covered. But, Diane Rhem with two guests a day, said she hadn't heard about it. Although one of the newscaster on the show had and explained it. How can you kill someone and not be charged, or do jail time? My inquiring mind wants to know.
I don't know about you guys, but in my small midwestern town I could get away with a lot.
Cheerleading (rest edited because I don't feel like male bashing tonight) gives you privileges. BUT, vehicular manslaughter would NOT have been one of them. Is there something here I am not getting?
Is it possible the dems don't want to look like the fools that Newt, Starr and crew did in Europe and other countries? Are they
treading lightly around Bush's younger drinking years, the accident and Harkin for a reason? Other than they are Helen's lily
livered wimps, of course.
Lord, I am glad I don't feel the need to vote a straight ticket. aposter
posted on November 9, 2002 11:48:18 PM new
Here in Portland, we have the Super-Rich area known as Lake Oswego (yes, its a buncha wooded hills surrounding a large standing lake.) About ten years ago, some super rich kid 16 year old teenager was driving along one night, not drunk or on drugs. He saw to younf 14 year old girls walking down the side walk ahead. He suddenly decided (he later admitted) that he'd like to know what it was like to kill people, so he floored the gas petal in the car and rammed the two teens girls from behind, killing one instantly and the other DOA at the hospital lifeflight. There never was a trial, the charges were dropped, the kid received a few months of mandantory therapy and then was sent out of the country to Switzerland or Germany - whatever. The two girls? Dead. Dead and buried. Where was justice for them?
posted on November 10, 2002 12:47:42 AM new
Well, in California, the governor's race was closer than expected. But of course, we elected Democrats across the board.
Of course, not everything is rosy in CA, or in the Bay Area, where I live. But I really don't understand the rest of the country. Honestly, I have trouble believing everyone east of the Mississippi isn't some gun toting, NRA card-carrying trailer trash yahoo.
