posted on November 13, 2002 01:06:36 PM new
I can just picture High School students being denied to Colleges because they are not "on the list." Or being denied certain jobs. Or their movements being tracked because they "are not on the list"
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I live in my own little world, but it is Okay...They know me here.
posted on November 13, 2002 01:08:49 PM new
Helenjw...
That is actually a Christmas card we sell here at the store. My suggestion is that bad children should receive this card from "Santa" around Thanksgiving....
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I live in my own little world, but it is Okay...They know me here.
[ edited by mlecher on Nov 13, 2002 01:09 PM ]
posted on November 13, 2002 01:12:10 PM new
If they're not registered for the draft they are denied student loans for college already.
If I were a parent (which I am) I would be PO'd at this rule.
If I were a school official and didn't want to turn the info over I would look carefully at the law and see if I could turn over the names as one list, and then the phone numbers on another list, and the addresses on another list, all with no way to correlate them.
[ edited by Reamond on Nov 13, 2002 01:13 PM ]
posted on November 13, 2002 01:24:39 PM new
Just another step toward the draft.
They know that there will be a drop off in volunteers if they intend to pursue a long list of wars against all the axis of evil.
People will fight if they percieve a threat like Hitler was to our way of life. But it's hard to get people to risk their lives for wars like Vietnam where they don't see it as a risk to the country. I mean nobody really thought they would be hitting the beaches of California. Most people will not risk their loved ones for an economic war or a war based on some long term abstract idea like the domino theory that in retrospect was a bunch of crap. Does anyone thing Saddam is going to invade New Jersey? The economic double standard is obvious - it was Saudi Arabians that did the 9/11 act but we can't disrupt trade with them so we'll pretend that it was really other people who are more convenient and profitable to attack.
Can you blame them? Who wants to offer up a son or two to keep oil companies secure?
posted on November 13, 2002 06:40:25 PM new
A "school official" has no right to choose for a student who they are allowed to see during recruitment periods.
Years ago, I remember the marines and other armed forces reps would come to a special assembly of the senior class. It was a big affair each year and they would explain the requirements to join and the time obligation, etc. Anyone who wanted could stay after and p/u literature and talk individualy with the reps.
This all smacks of the days when "WE" had to sit in political science classes taught by avowed communists like Angela Davis, but "YOU" couldn't join the ROTC if "YOU" wanted.
" If they're not registered for the draft they are denied student loans for college already. "
There's something wrong with this??? You are required to register by law. So you break the law and supposed to get gov. aid besides?
It must really be terrible when the student loan defaulters are denied gov jobs, mortgages, driver's licenses, etc.
posted on November 13, 2002 07:43:40 PM new
The schools here, as I would guess at least three-fourths of the ones in the nation do, have always given military recruiters every courtesy, including granting students excused absences from class to visit with recruiters during school time.
They seem to have become fairly aggressive in their recruiting here, but I don't know if that's typical throughout the nation. I know that during my son's senior year, he must have received twenty or thirty letters and phone calls trying to set up appointments for interviews. They just wouldn't take no for an answer. They continued less frequently during his first year of college and then almost quit, .... until about a month ago when my wife said that she answered yet another call wanting to talk to my son about enlistment. I don't know what the deal is. Maybe they're working on a quota system.
Student privacy has been a major issue with schools for the last 20 years. The movement was primarily initiated by traditional conservatives. The provision to provide the lists was probably a neoconservative influence.
posted on November 15, 2002 01:07:14 PM new
On another chatboard where this issue was being discussed, I read an account of the same sort of persistence by military recruiters the last few years, and since that poster was from another part of the country, then this hard sell may be widespread. There's also another push to make legal the use of the regular military for police actions in the event of a terrorist incident or other state of emergency. Since we are presently in a state of emergency and will also assuredly continue in one until the end of the War on Terrorism, and since we have no idea when, if ever, we will enjoy the levels of prosperity and employment that we experienced in the nineties, then I can see reasons why the provisions for the lists were included and the recent focus in our society of increasing the perception of the value of military service. Talk about killing more than one bird with a stone.
posted on November 15, 2002 04:14:54 PM new
Antiquary, it is that same sort of "persistance" that Oregon schools have deemed "harassment." This is why public schools in Oregon do not allow millitary recruiters to step foot on campus, but force them to hawk their wares from street sidewalks. If there really is a matter of choice in the matter, then when the student says NO it should mean NO! Appearantly, the Republicans have found out that NO is not a sufficient answer. Now, the millitary can start hounding students without them showing any interest. Congress and the President see noting wrong with this loss of privacy on the part of Americans. Simply put: they couldn't care less about your rights, wants, or needs. What the hell are they there for then?
posted on November 15, 2002 04:25:28 PM newWhat the hell are they there for then?
To further the military/industrial complex that Eisenhower warned us must be avoided at all costs, and to spare no costs to life, liberty, or property in pursuing the neoconservatives' quixotic quest for Empire.
The No Child Left Behind law, signed last
January, pumps billions into education but also gives military recruiters access to the names,
addresses and phone numbers of students in 22,000 schools. The law also says that schools
must give the military the same access to their campuses that businesses and college
recruiters enjoy.
School systems that fail to comply could lose federal money. The measure also applies to
private schools receiving federal funding. But Quaker schools and others that have a religious
objection to military service can get out of the requirement.
Students and parents who oppose the law can keep their information from being turned over to the military, but they must sign and return an "opt-out" form.
Opting out
The Boston school system, which has 7,500 juniors and seniors, included the opt-out notice in
a take-home student handbook, but fewer than a dozen parents opted out.
So far, 95 percent of the nation's schools are in compliance, said Pentagon spokeswoman Maj.
Sandra Troeber. She would not identify the other schools. But Education Department
spokesman Dan Langan said that the current focus is on cooperation and that no schools have
been sanctioned.
[ edited by bear1949 on Dec 4, 2002 02:23 PM ]
posted on December 4, 2002 02:29:04 PM new
[i]The law also says that schools
must give the military the same access to their campuses that businesses and college
recruiters enjoy[/i].
I don't see a problem with that. Expecially since they can 'opt-out' if they choose.
posted on December 4, 2002 02:57:15 PM new
Not sure if there's a clause that already deals with that issue or not. If not, one could be added.
Just like we paid $5.00 to have our phone number removed from the telemarketers lists. We were given a complaint form to fill out if we did receive a call from one.
