posted on November 27, 2002 01:33:35 PM new
Bleep! Bleeping bleep!
I won't be driving 281 anytime soon. Like the roads there aren't bad enough! My husband's from Philly, and he couldn't believe the driving in South Texas.[1]
Will they stop these trucks at the internal checkpoints and ask the drivers "Areyouacitizen?"
And do they have to get US insurance? US insurance doesn't cover US drivers in Mexico, and I used to carry Mexican insurance on my car also.
Oh the horror!
[1]And Houston, but that's a whole different story and other part of Texas
You have the right to an informed opinion -Harlan Ellison
posted on November 27, 2002 03:06:16 PM new
These vehicles and drivers will now be unleashed on American roads from NY to California and Florida to Michigan.
What will these Mexican drivers do after they deliver their cargo ? Will they then pick up cargo in the US and transport it around the US or to Mexico and undercut American transport companies ?
posted on November 27, 2002 03:06:46 PM new
Also, car and truck safety inspections in Mexico are NON-EXSISTENT. Be prepared for the deaths a many American families due to Mexican trucks having no brakes, bald tires, broken steering and suspension systems, overloaded. Death and Destruction...ALL IN THE NAME OF BIG BUSINESS!!! The Bush Administration paybacks continue.......
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We call them our heroes...but we pay them like chumps
posted on November 27, 2002 04:15:30 PM new
Under this ruling, Mexican trucks will only transport cargo trans-nationally, they will not be allowed to haul between points inside the US. Yes, they will be required to be insured, and will have to pass inspections for safety, that's what has held this process up this long. It was supposed to have begun after NAFTA was passed, years ago...but the state dept. stalled due to the safety issue. My cousin in Hermosillo, Sonora owns a transport company that routinely hauls produce into this country. Until now, their trucks were only allowed into the narrow border zone on this side of the border. I have crossed with him several times, and his load was always thoroughly checked, as was his passport and other papers. There is no reason to think that trucks going further distances will not be checked at least as rigorously. He has spent tens of thousands of dollars in the last few years gearing up for this...carefully studying US truck safety rules and making sure that the rigs he plans to use are up to snuff...from what I hear, his competitors are doing likewise.I'm sure there will be some violations...maybe some like the US truckers who are ticketed on a daily basis for intentionally disconnecting their front brakes to improve mileage, or the ones who take amphetamines so they can drive 16 hours and then falsify their logs.
By the way snowy, my insurance (Farmer's) covers all my vehicles 75 miles into Mexico, although I also buy an annual policy in Mexico to cover the ones we take there.
Mexican trucks have been crossing our borders for generations. Don't forget that most of the produce you will buy this winter was grown in Mexico, and for the most part, US trucks did not go into Mexico to get it.
posted on November 27, 2002 04:38:24 PM newDon't forget that most of the produce you will buy this winter was grown in Mexico,
Nope. Most of my produce is good ole USA grown. Course I live in CA where a good part of it is grown. Actually, I make a point of NOT buying Mexican produce.
The Bush Administration paybacks continue.....
You're pinning the wrong person with the blame, Mlecher. Clinton was responsible for this as part of the NAFTA agreement. Bush didn't have anything to do with it, other than hold off implementing it for just about as long as he could. The fact that it is finally going into effect is just a little "bone" that he has tossed Vincente Fox, prolly to make him shut up about throwing open our borders to all and sundry Mexicans who want to come here to work and then send their paychecks home to Mexico.
posted on November 27, 2002 08:02:29 PM new
You may make a point of not buying Mexican produce, but the fact remains, that when the winter sets in California cannot supply this country with produce, and most of the winter produce in stores does in fact come from Mexico.
Although NAFTA was approved under Clinton, he is hardly the sole responsible party. It dates to at least 1989, and it's roots in the GATT further back than that...
Sending their paychecks home to Mexico? I guess people who come here to work from other countries don't have to pay rent or utilities, buy food, clothing, cars, gas, oil and the other necessities of life which the rest of us are required to pay for, and they are therefore able to "send their paychecks home"..from your tone, I'd say that for you this isn't about the safety of Mexican trucks at all....
posted on November 27, 2002 08:32:48 PM newwhen the winter sets in California cannot supply this country with produce, and most of the winter produce in stores does in fact come from Mexico.
Well I do fine here in CA buying my produce that was grown in San Joaquin Valley. Any produce not grown in the US is labeled as such at my supermarket. I believe this is a federal law, so it's not hard to find produce that is USA grown.
I guess people who come here to work from other countries don't have to pay rent or utilities, buy food, clothing, cars, gas, oil and the other necessities of life which the rest of us are required to pay for, and they are therefore able to "send their paychecks home"..from your tone, I'd say that for you this isn't about the safety of Mexican trucks at all..
Of course I am concerned about the safety of Mexican trucking. Mexico doesn't have a great track record when it comes to safety, as well as hygenic growing practices. As for "sending paychecks home", I'm all for legal immigration for those who want to come here to better their living conditions and make their contributions to our nation. This nation was built was built by immigrants. But that takes commitment. And unfortunately, Vincente Fox's idea of immigration is "Mexican citizens" coming to the US to work unhindered while they contribute to MEXICO's economy.
Sorry you don't like my "tone". I don't like yours either.
posted on November 27, 2002 10:11:16 PM new
The "safety inspections" of the Mexican trucks is cursory at best and has no enforcement mechanisms for safety violations. 60 minutes did a piece about this and the inspectors at the border were aghast at the violations and conditions of the Mexican trucks just crossing into the border zone.
There is also little to stop the trucks from hauling secondary cargoes while in the US. Otherwise, why would the Mexican truckers want to haul into the US and almost be guaranteed deadheading back to Mexico-- remember, the only thing the US exports to Mexico is jobs.
You can't fine the Mexico trucking companies to stop violations because the fine will never be paid, and you can't jail the drivers because that would cause an international political incident.
This will cause carnage on the US highways. We don't allow 3rd rate airlines to fly into the US, why would we allow these trucking companies to drive on our highways ?
posted on November 28, 2002 10:56:11 AM new
The only reason the graph shows an increase in exports to Mexico is due to all the factories and capital equipment etc., being sent to Mexico. The factories and equipment being moved from Indiana and Nebraska are invoiced and manifest as an export as "sold" to a Mexico based subsidiary.
NAFTA explicitly prevents two of what could be huge exports to Mexico from the US- used cars and used tires. Mexico will not allow these two goods to be imported to Mexico.
The "exports" also do not account for goods that are made in China, exported to the US and then sold to Mexico.
There are few if any goods made in the US and sold in Mexico. It is economically impossible to export goods made in America to Mexico, the Mexicans can not afford them.
posted on December 5, 2002 01:10:50 PM new
profe 51
You really ought to show both sides of the coin ....
Here's the exports FROM Mexico to the US for the same period. FRED didnt graph it, but it looks like we are on the losing side again....about 3 billion dollars worth and I promise none of it is factory equipment from jobs moving here.
http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred/data/exchange/update/bop23
[ edited by Bob9585 on Dec 5, 2002 01:18 PM ]
posted on December 5, 2002 02:26:45 PM new
Interesting, I wonder how this compares to our trade balance with almost any other country we trade with? Betcha it isn't terribly different. In fact, it's probably a drop in the bucket compared to some others.
Of course, most of our other trade partners aren't sending us their swarthy, filthy, disease ridden, lazy non-english speaking hordes...bent on breaking our welfare system, clogging our hospitals and schools and littering our highways with their rickety, uninspected, overloaded, drug filled trucks!
posted on December 5, 2002 02:41:34 PM new
Sure they do, Prof. Just not quite as many since they are not as geographically close as Mexico.
Obviously you are thinking that objections to illegal immigration are race-based. I think most people object to the illegal part of immigration. Why do you have such a problem with that?
posted on December 5, 2002 02:49:48 PM new
No, they are "The New Americans." The kind that these Republicans love the most. The New Americans have no US Constitutional Rights, no right to Due Process, no right to Minimum Wage or Labor protections and when we tire of them, they can be sweapt away without Due Process back to where they came from without any reguard for the lives and famly ties that they have made here. And their plight should sound familiar.
Republicans are trying to make illegal immigrants of us all (except themselves, of course). They are tearing up the United States Constitution and the Bill of Rights (something, BTW, that REAL Conservatives would never stand for! They'd rather die defending the US Constitution rather than applauding its destruction!) The Minimum Wage Laws and Worker Saftey and Protection Laws are all under attack. Those laws which cannoit be changed at this time are weakened down to non-enforcement so that the agency is only paperwork. Republicans are trying to narrow the gap between illegal immigrants and bonified Unite States Citizens.
I have been hearing that there is discussion among some Republican leaders as to how to allow these "New Americans" to vote. Soon enough, you no longer will have to be an American Citizen to Vote -- just be here in America.
That ordinary people support this sort of personal destruction against themselves is stupifying. That any0one who is sane and an adult could possibly vote for or support an organization bent upon their destruction is insanity of the worst sort - a weakness of the mind and willpower, laziness to think for themselves. I hope thay'll all be pating themselves on the back when illegal immigrants get to be First In Line before them! Who knows? Maybe they'll cheer that decision too!
posted on December 5, 2002 07:15:44 PM new
"Obviously you are thinking that objections to illegal immigration are race-based."
I think, based upon my own experience, that objections to immigration whether legal or otherwise ARE sometimes race-based. Note that I say sometimes, not always. I have been personally offended by comments directed at my own family members.Comments like "why do your people think they need our country when they have one of thier own?"..."Why don't "you people" learn the American language?"...My family has owned lands in what is now the US since before it was part of Mexico. We still own it. It was guaranteed to us by the treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo. My family that came before the present generation were citizens of the US, before that; Mexico, before that; New Spain...all without moving so much as an INCH off the lands we control.The currently dominant culture in the area where I live hasn't been here even a hundred years, and yet many of them refer to us as "you people", as if we are foreigners!!....you bet I see racism in these objections. Racism, and xenophobia. Fear of a different language and fear of a different culture. I see easy answers to difficult problems our country has to face, which can easily be blamed on immigrants.
"I think most people object to the illegal part of immigration. Why do you have such a problem with that?"
I never said I had a problem with the illegal part of immigration. You may recall that this thread began as a discussion of the perceived dangers of Mexican trucks which will soon be allowed on US highways. I shared some observations which come from personal experience regarding that subject.The trucks, and their drivers which will be allowed to cross into this country under NAFTA will be legally admitted into this country. It has nothing to do with illegal immigration, unless you wish to take the position that these trucks will be hauling illegals, which will be purely conjecture (and not well reasoned conjecture at that ) on your part. Somewhere in this thread you got the impression that I supported illegal immigration. Please copy/paste my words to let me know whatever gave you that idea.
posted on December 5, 2002 07:22:03 PM new
by the way Borillar, I didn't support NAFTA before or during Clinton, and I like it even less under Resident Bush. It is forcing the rich of Mexico to become obscenely rich, and the poor to become even poorer. It will cause an even bigger flood of immigrants to this country. I see it's growing rot every time I go to visit relatives in Mexico. American citizens looking for easy blame will find the illegals crossing into this country looking for a better life as easy marks, without ever stopping to think about the real cause.
posted on December 5, 2002 07:55:07 PM new
True, prof. The ones thar are really in charge want to keep us divided amongst ourselves and to keep our attention focused away from what they are doing to us. It's working well, as most Republican voters think that this is some sort of football game.
posted on December 5, 2002 08:12:18 PM newMy family has owned lands in what is now the US since before it was part of Mexico. We still own it. It was guaranteed to us by the treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo. My family that came before the present generation were citizens of the US, before that; Mexico, before that; New Spain...all without moving so much as an INCH off the lands we control.The currently dominant culture in the area where I live hasn't been here even a hundred years, and yet many of them refer to us as "you people", as if we are foreigners!!....you bet I see racism in these objections. Racism, and xenophobia. Fear of a different language and fear of a different culture. I see easy answers to difficult problems our country has to face, which can easily be blamed on immigrants.
Well, I don't know where you live, but I assume that it is one of the United States. Regardless of whether the land you live on NOW was part of Mexico in days PAST, the fact is it is NOW part of the United States. Nothing is going to change that fact. I don't think any RT'ers have said "you people" but if you get comments like that where you live, I would most certainly agree that they are derogatory and racial in origin. The fact is ALL U.S. citizens are descended from immigrants (except maybe Native Americans) so it especially pains me that you are singled out as one of "those people" or whatever epitaph has been directed to you or your family. It isn't right. But illegal immigration IS a problem for this country. It DOES strain social services, educational resources, and other government infrastructure.
It is an interesting topic. And your comment Of course, most of our other trade partners aren't sending us their swarthy, filthy, disease ridden, lazy non-english speaking hordes...bent on breaking our welfare system, clogging our hospitals and schools and littering our highways with their rickety, uninspected, overloaded, drug filled trucks! leads me to believe that you think that those of us who are opposed to open borders and liberal immigration are opposed to such on the basis of racial prejudice or cultural disdain.
Actually, I make a point of NOT buying Mexican produce.
