stusi
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posted on January 14, 2003 04:22:41 PM new
The two U.S. pilots charged with manslaughter for mistakenly bombing and killing four Canadians in Afghanistan were issued amphetamines prior to their flight. It is apparently common practice for pilots departing on long missions to be issued such drugs. They were also issued antidepressants on their return.
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Borillar
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posted on January 14, 2003 04:30:43 PM new
That sounds bogus.
The reason is that anti-depressant drugs do not work with one single dose. In fact, it can have reverse side effects. It takes a week or so, depending upon the anti-depressant, to build up a maintainance dosage in the bloodstream. Therefore, handing out anti-depressants to pilots after flights to "bring them down" is baloney! So I don't believe a word of it. Liars!
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Linda_K
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posted on January 14, 2003 04:52:28 PM new
This whole case just frys my $ss. This was an accident. The two pilots shouldn't be charged with anything. They were not aware of the Canadian troops in the area.
Was it caused because they were taking 'uppers'? I don't know. But I'm not against our military taking pills to stay awake when they sometimes are putting in 20 hour shifts. To me it's kind of the same thing that residents do/have done when they're working their 30-36 hour shifts.
Borillar - one sleeping pill can put you to sleep.
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Borillar
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posted on January 14, 2003 05:37:16 PM new
>Borillar - one sleeping pill can put you to sleep.
Yes. But one single anti-depressant does not do one single thing for you. Different drug altogether.
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stusi
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posted on January 14, 2003 05:58:25 PM new
Borillar- Although you are right about anti-depressants, your conclusion about the veracity of the report is a typical knee-jerk reaction. I suspect it is true, medical errors not withstanding. I will try to get the link.
http://www.msnbc.com/news/859028.asp?0cv=CB10
[ edited by stusi on Jan 14, 2003 06:00 PM ]
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gravid
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posted on January 14, 2003 07:25:30 PM new
Just because they don't work that way doesn't mean they won't be given that way. Sorry to say.
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Borillar
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posted on January 14, 2003 07:36:46 PM new
True, gravid. But it would have the exact same efect as a placebo. What would be the point?
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stusi
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posted on January 14, 2003 08:11:21 PM new
Borillar- Placebos can have up to a 50% or more positive effect. Do you still doubt the report?
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junquemama
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posted on January 14, 2003 08:20:44 PM new
http://www.msnbc.com/news/859028.asp?0cv=CB10
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gravid
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posted on January 14, 2003 08:57:25 PM new
This is perhaps unkind - but true - they might misuse them because they don't know what the hell they are doing. My family's experience with military medicine was very poor. My one uncle got parasites in the tropics and even after he found the ones that were tormenting him in a medical text book and showed it to the doctors treating him they would not give hime the proper treatment. He went off base and bought the drugs and treated himself and they charged him and tried to court marshall him for treating himself.
20/20 had a show a couple years ago about the surgeons the military hires that no civilian hospitals will hire because you wouldn't hire them to bone out a pig.
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KatyD
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posted on January 14, 2003 09:00:05 PM new
Anti-depressants most certainly can have physical effects with even a single dose. Many anti-depressants carry warnings about operating machinery or driving when first starting out on the regimen. In fact, after taking the first dose, the patient can feel lethargic, drowsy, and tired. Buspar is one that comes to mind that can cause such side effects with just a single dose.
KatyD
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stockticker
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posted on January 14, 2003 09:16:32 PM new
Canada Press Report
[ edited by stockticker on Jan 14, 2003 09:17 PM ]
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kraftdinner
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posted on January 14, 2003 09:47:20 PM new
I've never heard of anti-depressants working that fast Katy. It usually takes at least 10 days for them to have an effect.
I agree with you Linda. It was just a terrible accident. 
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Borillar
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posted on January 14, 2003 11:16:14 PM new
MOst anti-deprressants do have side effects with the first dose ~ undesireable and largely unpredictable side effects. What would be the point in issuing the drugs for that reason? I mean, this isn't candy that they claim they're giving away, you know. They issued them, reasonable people would conclude, for their postive mood lifting effects. Unfortunately, it does take around ten to fourteen days, at several doses per day, to get any noticeble beneficial effect. If one could simply take an anti-depressant when one felt like it and get a "boost" from it, who would need cocain and the like to get high on? Anti-Depressants are not sold underground as entertainment drugs simply because a single dose won't have any beneficial effects. Savvy?
Therefore, someone is officially lying in my opinion.
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Borillar
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posted on January 14, 2003 11:22:51 PM new
After looing over the lonk provided by junquemama, it states that "an anti-depressant was given". That could be a shot of burbon for all we know.
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Linda_K
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posted on January 14, 2003 11:27:14 PM new
Thanks for that link, stockticker.
And Kraftdinner, I agree...a tragic mistake ...and would feel less angry if an investigation were being held rather than a court martial. If anyone should be held accountable [and someone most certainly should, imo] it should be those who where responsible for getting the proper information relayed between our two countries troops. So sad.
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kraftdinner
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posted on January 14, 2003 11:44:39 PM new
On the news here, the 2 men are being called scapegoats. Yes Linda - who gave them the orders in the first place? But even if they didn't have specific orders, I'm sure they did the best they could. It's like nobody's allowed to make mistakes anymore. You either get sued or sent to jail.
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bunnicula
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posted on January 15, 2003 07:45:57 AM new
The trouble is that our military seems to have an increasing number of mistakes. I started a thread on this some time last year.
Censorship, like charity, should begin at home; but unlike charity, it should end there --Clare Booth Luce
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Helenjw
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posted on January 15, 2003 07:56:42 AM new
Holding the pilots responsible for this tragic accident is wrong. Friendly fire accidents are bound to happen in every war.
In fact, in a situation in which fatigue cannot be controlled, such accidents may increase. Occasional use of methamphetamines when used as prescribed may save lives. Fatigue kills.
Helen
[ edited by Helenjw on Jan 15, 2003 07:59 AM ]
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DeSquirrel
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posted on January 15, 2003 09:21:46 AM new
They are being nailed partly because of the furor, but mostly because they were warned there were friendlies in the area when they radioed in they were about to fire.
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bunnicula
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posted on January 17, 2003 05:21:02 PM new
http://abcnews.go.com/wire/US/ap20030117_1329.html
Pilot in Mistaken Bombing on Canadian Soldiers Was Under Orders Not to Fire, Airman Testifies
Censorship, like charity, should begin at home; but unlike charity, it should end there --Clare Booth Luce
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ntc
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posted on January 17, 2003 10:57:54 PM new
National Guard? Wern't thum guys in the movie "RAMBO"??
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stusi
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posted on January 18, 2003 06:47:12 AM new
ntc- Five posts in over two years and two in the last 24 hours? What does ntc stand for- no troll, coma?
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ntc
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posted on January 18, 2003 07:29:37 AM new
I can post whenever I like.
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Helenjw
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posted on January 18, 2003 07:52:38 AM new
Hell, stusi
Just about everybody here is a troll. Didn't you know that I'm a troll and I've been here for almost three years.
LOL!!!
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Helenjw
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posted on January 18, 2003 08:43:58 AM new
stusi
ntc- Five posts in over two years and two in the last 24 hours? What does ntc stand for- no troll, coma?
If I didn't know ntc, I wouldn't ask such an insulting question. Do you know ntc?
Helen
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ntc
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posted on January 18, 2003 10:17:04 AM new
Thank-You Helen...In the "Over 2 years" that I have been around AW I have admired your posts. As well as many of the others...
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stusi
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posted on January 18, 2003 10:41:43 AM new
Helen- 1. the question wasn't insulting, it was a joke.
2. ntc has admired your posts
3. the question WAS insulting.
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ntc
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posted on January 18, 2003 11:04:23 AM new
I just hope the situation turns out well for all involved. I am SURE that when the American pilots went out that day they did NOT go on a "Lets kill our friends sortie" So any threat either real or percived DID happen to them. I live in the town were the funeral for Marc Leger was held (one of the four CA dead) and at the funeral it was a very sad affair indeed, But in the six hours that I was there NEVER did I hear ill will towards Americans or the pilots...The general feeling that was in the air was sorrow for the families of ALL involved.
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ntc
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posted on January 18, 2003 12:18:35 PM new
STUSI...Sorry I did not mean the question as an insult..It is just the (unjust) way that the media shows the Military..Canadian..American..Good..Bad..They twist the story to suit their needs..Again If I insulted anybody I am sorry.
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