posted on February 27, 2003 06:07:15 AM new"I am a firm believer in the people. If given the truth, they can be depended upon to meet any national crisis. The great point is to bring them the real facts." --Abraham Lincoln
Last fall, Congressman Jim McDermott shocked America by saying that Bush would mislead the American people in order to drag them into war. Since then, Bush has been called "The Great Misleader," CIA officials accused the president of using "cooked information" to falsify Iraq's threat, and U.N. inspectors said the administration's weapons of mass destruction evidence amounts to "garbage after garbage after garbage." Bush has been caught lying about everything from Iraq's nuclear capabilities and Al Qeada links to blue chip economists' phantom reports. And as the rationale for war has morphed from "weapons of mass destruction" to "regime change" to "disarmament," to "Iraqi liberation," a recent Gallup poll shows that 58% of Americans believe Bush would conceal evidence or lie to win public support for his war. Honest Abe, he's not.
"The only thing we have to fear is fear itself." - Franklin D.Roosevelt
Remember when we learned that the president had received warnings of possible terrorist attacks prior to Sept. 11 -- and headlines screamed, "Bush Knew"? Or when Colleen Rowley gained fame explaining ways FBI officials thwarted agents' attempts to investigate suspected terrorists? Though those events were monumentally noteworthy, they were overshadowed by terror alerts that this administration, and the complaint media, interrupted coverage to issue. Even the latest elevation of the country's terror alert, which was based partly on fabrications, was, according to one White House source, "a political decision as much as anything else." This also falls under the category of "dishonest and corrupt" above.
"The nation which indulges towards another a habitual hatred, or an habitual fondness, is in some degree a slave. It is a slave to its animosity or to its affection, either of which is sufficient to lead it astray from its duty and its interest." -- George Washington
From the "Axis of Evil" to President Bush's description of Kim Jong Ill as a "pygmy" to Donald Rumsfeld's dismissal of "old Europe," bellicose bullying and habitual hatred have become standard themes of Bush "diplomacy". When Richard Perle suggests that Germany's Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder should step down and says France is no longer an ally, it's easy to see why the world is developing a habitual hatred towards us.
"The history of liberty is a history of the limitations of governmental power, not the increase of it." - Woodrow Wilson.
Though the Patriot Act was deemed the biggest government power grab in recent history, the Homeland Security Act was criticized for expanding "the federal police state" and "culture of secrecy" even further. Recently leaked draft legislation, the "Domestic Security Act of 2003," indicates that the Justice Department is proposing ways to strip Americans of their citizenship, considering secret arrests for the first time in U.S. history, and trimming judicial oversight while increasing the government's power.
"When even one American - who has done nothing wrong -- is forced by fear to shut his mind and close his mouth, then all of Americans are in peril." -- Harry S. Truman
Would Harry give Ari Fleischer hell for saying that Americans "need to watch what they say, watch what they do?"
"It is to be regretted that the rich and powerful too often bend the acts of government to their selfish purposes." - Andrew Jackson
During Poppa Bush's presidency, Dumbya's Harken Energy, which had no international oil experience, landed an exclusive contract with the government of Bahrain. Neil and Marvin Bush struck up post-Gulf War deals and Dumbya's insider trading charges were kindly swept aside. Today, Poppy Bush and former Secretary of State James Baker benefit "from acts of government" through the Carlyle Group. Meanwhile. while Secretary of Defense, Cheney vilified Saddam as "Hitler revisited," but later conducted $73 million worth of business with him as CEO of Halliburton. Halliburton currently has contracts for building military bases and is certain to benefit from the projected $2 billion cost of rebuilding Iraq's oil infrastructure.
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"Every gun that is made, every warship that is launched, every rocket fired signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed" -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
the unnecessary bombing and occupation of Iraq would cost this economy $1 trillion, we have money to blow up bridges over the Tigress and Euphrates and we don't have money to build bridges in our major cities. We have money to destroy the health of the Iraqi people and we don't have enough money to repair the health of our own people in this country.
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"The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted." - James Madison
Bush quotes :
"You don't get everything you want. A dictatorship would be a lot easier." Describing what it's like to be governor of Texas. (Governing Magazine 7/98) -- From Paul Begala's "Is Our Children Learning?"
"If this were a dictatorship, it would be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I'm the dictator." -- CNN.com, December 18, 2000
"A dictatorship would be a heck of a lot easier, there's no question about it." Business Week, July 30, 2001
posted on February 27, 2003 06:44:30 AM new
Yeah...funny how clinton felt exactly the same way about Saddam and Iraq...made the same statements about the need to disarm him/remove him. But that, of course, was different. right.
12-16-98
"Clinton also called Hussein a threat to his people and to the security of the world."
"The best way to end that threat once and for all is with a new Iraqi government...a government ready to live in peace with it's neighbors, a government that respects the rights of it's people." Clinton said.
Clinton didn't go to the UN for approval. Clinton didn't get approval from our congress. And he certainly didn't ask France for it's approval before HE started bombing Iraq.
posted on February 27, 2003 07:20:37 AM new
My, How Times Have Changed
"Hillary did not object to precipitous action against Iraq when her husband bombed it on the day of his scheduled impeachment. President Clinton attacked Saddam Hussein without first asking approval from the United Nations, the U.S. Congress or even France. But now we have a president who wants to attack Iraq for purposes of national security rather than his own personal interests, and Hillary thinks he's being rash. President Bush has gotten a war resolution from Congress, yet another U.N. Security Council resolution, and we've been talking about this war for 14 months. But he's being precipitous."
- Columnist Ann Coulter
President Bush defied international opinion Tuesday and stood his ground for a war resolution on Iraq. It's mystifying to many political experts. No one can understand why he would want to bomb Iraq if he doesn't have any sex scandals to hide.....Argus Hamilton
"To march against the war is not to give peace a chance. It is to give tyranny a chance. It is to give the Iraqi nuke a chance. It is to give the next terrorist mass murder a chance. It is to march for the furtherance of evil instead of the vanquishing of evil." --Michael Kelly
posted on February 27, 2003 07:44:20 AM new
Hillary's such a hypocrite.
My husband and I watched Chris Matthews [Hardball] interviewing her at a university. He asked her why she had voted to give President Bush approval to go forward with a war on Iraq. She explained, [to the booing of the college crowd because she had done so], why she supported the war. She pretty much quoted Bill's statement in the CNN article I posted.
But of course now, she's in a different country [Ireland?] saying she's against doing just that. This way if the war doesn't go well she can say she didn't support it, but if it goes well, she can use the fact that she voted to give this power to the President to take Saddam out.
posted on February 27, 2003 08:57:16 AM new
I don't understand how Bush threads, turn into Clinton threads.Whos the President now?
So I decided to read one of Hillarys speechs and see what all the ruckus was about and found this one on the economy.It was scandalous!
posted on February 27, 2003 09:19:17 AM new
junquemama - I don't understand how Bush threads, turn into Clinton threads.Whos the President now?
Well...I'll give you my reasons.
It's nothing but pure hypocrisy for Bill and Hillary to now be against what Bush is planning on doing....disarming Iraq and removing Saddam from power when they've stated the exact same thing themselves. AND when Bill did bomb Iraq, giving the exact same reasons Bush is now. Nothings changed since 12-98. Nothing.
As long as Bill and Hillary continue to be in the news criticizing our current president and his stand on doing exactly the same thing they did, while Bill was in office....I will continue to point out the hypocrisy in their statements. She voted to give the President this power. No denying that.
posted on February 27, 2003 09:50:26 AM new
HOW DOES A BUSH THREAD TURN INTO A CLINTON THREAD?
You condemn Bush for his actions, actions the Clinton did without requesting approval from the U.N.
"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty." --Thomas Jefferson
"The sons of all of us will pay in the future if we of the present do not do justice in the present." --Theodore Roosevelt
"Nothing is more dangerous in wartime than to live in the temperamental atmosphere of a Gallup Poll, always
feeling one's pulse and taking one's temperature." --Winston Churchill
posted on February 27, 2003 09:58:27 AM new
LindaK,Bush has changed his sight of the enemy in mid-stream.Al Queada is not in Iraq,
Never has been.The underground war games have been going on forever,nothing new,nothing has changed,they are still going on.The only difference is, Bush declared war,
against Iraq,so that he could dip into funds created by declaration of war.By doing this,(declareing war)he has power, and that power is scarey.You cant question the actions of a President or impeach him for war crimes, during war.Bush has made himself indestructable to the wishs of the American people and in doing so,has bankrupted our Nation.
Look beyond Iraq and tell me where our salvation is.Tell me where it will all turn around,tell me who is paying the bills and tell me a lot of innocents wont die.
I dont want to know a past tenths of a former President,I want answers to our problems that are in our faces.I want our people safe and not under phoney scare tactics,Scaring the hell out of people only make them sheep.
Never questioning someones motives, is the most dangerous crime an American can do to themselves,That is not what built our Nation.
posted on February 27, 2003 10:35:30 AM new
junquemama - Scaring the hell out of people only make them sheep. I'm not scared and I don't believe those who support the President are scared. We feel it's long over due that Saddam is taken out. We feel this should have been dealt with in the past two administrations...but it wasn't. So...we deal with it now.
I'm convinced that both Bush 1, Clinton and President Bush all saw/see Saddam as a threat.
I see that Bush heard the public out cry to take this to the UN first. He did. They voted 15-0 to disarm Saddam. He didn't have to, and Clinton didn't before he bombed Iraq.
I see that the people wanted Bush to get Congress to back him. He went to our Congress. They voted to give him this power. Clinton didn't get the Congress to give his permission.
You can't put aside what the last president may have or have not done as not having nothing to do with what's happening now. It does...it always has. People here bash Bush that it was his statements about the axis of evil that is, in part, the reason for all these problems. Well...read Clinton's statements about disarming him. Think Saddam didn't hear about that in 1998?
Think clinton bombing Iraq in 1998 might have just pissed Saddam off a little? But according to what you're saying...we shouldn't bring up clinton and what he did or what he stated because we're dealing with what Bush is doing now? Then why all the threads that bash everything Bush 1 did? Maybe they shouldn't be discussed either for the same reasons. Or is that different?
Never questioning someones motives, is the most dangerous crime an American can do to themselves,That is not what built our Nation. No one is saying 'motives' can't be questioned. I'm saying CLINTON had the same motives....the same belief that Saddam had to be removed in 1998. I'm saying nothing has changed since then. Other than 9-11.....
And on the A-Q and Iraq connections, we see that differently. We all read and hear the same statements, some believe some don't.
posted on February 27, 2003 11:53:21 AM new
Nowhere in my original post, not in the title or subject of the thread is Clinton mentioned either directly or by implication. Yet look at the dumbass lindak go.
posted on February 27, 2003 11:54:35 AM new
Lindak just can't stop her hysterical ranting and obsessing, over Bill and Hillary Clinton! No matter what the topic, lindak will bring Bill Clinton or Hillary into it. I know he is charismatic, likeable and one of the best leaders that this world has known but GET OVER IT, lindak. He is no longer the president and Hillary is not the first lady.
posted on February 27, 2003 11:58:07 AM new
Yeah, I also noticed that too, junquemama. I noticed that everytime someone brings up Bush in the thread and the current nasties, some people ignore it and bring up old, irrelavant information that doesn't apply in an effort to derail the thread. Well, they can go ahead and talk all that they want to about Clinton - their Hero, I'm concentrating on the current President, Bush.
posted on February 27, 2003 12:02:02 PM new
LindaK,You still didnt answer my question on the economy of all this war with Iraq.Our economy is bankrupt,we cant go on this spending spree without consequences.Right now each American(all)owe over 22,000.00 each,Since Bush started the campaine on Iraq.I got those numbers on another sight.
What I want is the answers of what this war will do to fix our budget and why declare war,without cleaning up the other messes.This war will weaken the support of our troops in other Countrys.The troops are in danger of our short term memory.
posted on February 27, 2003 12:13:41 PM new
Ahhhh....did I interrupt another Bush bashing thread? Too bad. I'm making a true observation of the FACTS. That's what bothers you guys. Don't want others to hear that Clinton made the same statements about Saddam and Iraq that Bush is now. No....let's be quiet and let that pass.
Last fall, Congressman Jim McDermott shocked America by saying that Bush would mislead the American people in order to drag them into war. Since then, Bush has been called "The Great Misleader," CIA officials accused the president of using "cooked information" to falsify Iraq's threat, and U.N. inspectors said the administration's weapons of mass destruction evidence amounts to "garbage after garbage after garbage."
Just making those who oppose what Bush is doing in Iraq remember that Clinton and Hillary have made statements that they saw the same threat from Saddam. Maybe they both [Clinton and Bush] have read the same 'cooked information' since they both saw/see the threat from Iraq and Saddam in the same way.
posted on February 27, 2003 12:24:07 PM new
junquemama - You still didnt answer my question.....
Sorry. Yes, war is very expensive...but we have no idea what our costs may be if we allow types like Saddam to continue on without showing them America is not going to stand still and do nothing. If we continue to show the likes of bin Laden, who's pubically stated he saw Americans as weak, that we are...they will come on even stronger, imo.
On our ecomony being bankrupt. It's not bankrupt. It's not growing, but it's not bankrupt. Yes, we are adding to the deficit and a lot of that is the result of 9-11 and our attack on Afghanistan. America has spent large sums during all the wars it's been involved in. It's recovered before...it will again.
posted on February 27, 2003 12:29:24 PM new
junquemama, take my advice: don't even try to reason with these Uncivil Anti-Libertarians. Their purpose is not to make sense, but to stop anti-Bush threads. They couldn't care less what they have to do to derail a thread. By responding to them and trying to prove to them just how wrong that they are only plays you right into their hands.
Instead, concentrate on the anti-Bush thread topic. If they keep trying to derail threads by themselves, eventually AW will remove their accounts. But so long as they can enguage any of the rest of us in derailing a thread they get away with it.
posted on February 27, 2003 12:32:25 PM new
junquemama - You're missing the point. I'm speaking about clinton's statements that he made BEFORE HE bombed Iraq, when HE was president. HE detailed the treat we and other countries faced from Saddam. NOT what he's said since Bush has been president. Just like Hillary....votes to give Bush the power, now claims he's not handling the situation right. That's why I stand by what I'm saying about he and Hillary are both hyprocrits.
posted on February 27, 2003 12:50:26 PM new
LindaK,This is the part of our conversation I hope you do some research on.We have been bankrupt(not known by the general masses)since Reagan.Reagan had lawyers and crafty advisiors to come up with plans to raise the debt and do some fancy bookkeeping,so the economy wouldnt look as bad as it really was.The gold standard was thrown out, and malipulated thru the stock exchange.There is nothing,nada,to back up our money or our debt.
During those other wars you speak of,We were protected in hundreds of ways.Jobs to come home to.A dollar was backed by gold and silver.Kissinger was sent around the world making truce agreements,Bush and factors were trying to run pipelines across all Arab territory.
The dollar was strong,The people were strong in their comittments and word.
Now what do we have?.A weak dollar,already weakened by debt with no backing,and an economy in shambles,No jobs,No growth,and nothing to back up our economy by war.And a mans word has no meaning anymore.
9/11 showed us the greed of our Companys,and they high tailed it out of the Country.Nothing can stop the carnovar feeding for those at the top,unless everyone puts their foot down.A handfull of people make big bucks during wars,thats why it is so popular for those who will never put their lives on the line to play this silly game.And that goes for both sides.
posted on February 27, 2003 12:58:37 PM new
LindaK,You said:
. Just like Hillary....votes to give Bush the power, now claims he's not handling the situation right. That's why I stand by what I'm saying about he and Hillary are both hyprocrits.
Bush, surprized everyone jumping on the Iraq bandwagon so quick, and deploying our biggest resources to that Country.The axis of evil had a flat tire somewhere on the road to Bin-Laden,People were tricked,just as that tax break at the end of Homeland security bill.
posted on February 27, 2003 12:59:31 PM new
junquemama - I'm not trying to discount your concerns about where our economy is headed. I'm saying some things are necessary and I believe removing the threats that both Clinton and Bush, as president's, have stated they see from Saddam is one of them.
We have been bankrupt(not known by the general masses)since Reagan Not being sarcastic here...please know that...but I'd believe the clinton supporters would tell you differently....as they keep reminding us how good our economy was doing under the clinton administration. So if we were bankrupt then, why didn't clinton make us aware of that during his 8 years in office?
posted on February 27, 2003 01:07:48 PM newsurprise everyone? I don't think any of our elected leaders voted to give Bush this power because they were surprised. Especially not Bill and Hillary.
The case and the facts about Saddam were put before them, and they voted on it. They're adults, they're aware of what's going on in the world. I'll never buy they voted that way because they were surprised. It was because the vote was forced before the elections..and they were smart enough to know that the American public was watching who was supporting the president and who wasn't.
posted on February 27, 2003 01:10:00 PM new
LindaK,The bubble would still be intact if not for 9/11 and we would still be at the point we are now,The economy takes a dive on the over-seas markets every time someone rattles a saber of war.
Bush1 backed out of the war,eyeball to eyeball with Saddam,Thats where the first mistake was.
That war was embarrassing to Bush,The media beat the troops to the landing shore, and the Iraqies were surrendering to newsmen.
It was a turkey shoot and still is for the people of Iraq.
posted on February 27, 2003 03:39:12 PM new
LindaK, Greenspan told Congress today,The only way we can fund the babyboomers Social Security ,and not have enough money because of less people in the job market, at their retirement is to raise the age of retirement and cut benefits.
I know that doesnt distress you,but it will hit others very hard.
