posted on March 29, 2003 09:00:22 AM new
I am honest enough to admit that my perception may be subjective.
I try to convince myself & understand that some Americans are not evil, but when I see the wide support for this evil act, it’s difficult to understand otherwise.
And that sentiment has spread like wild fire, all over the world thanks to your PNAC.
Based on my observations on the round table, it seems that insults, to the American ‘sub-culture’ on AW, are only palatable if directed at Canadians, French, Cubans, Germans, Japanese, Chinese, Russians, Iraqis, Afghans, Turks, Iranians, Yugoslavs, Mexicans, etc, etc, etc, etc. & Palastinians (spell check wont even recognise this one).
In fact it seems any insults on a culture are palatable as long as they are not directed against Americans or Jews.
Comments I have made here which were seen as anti-Semitic were prompted by what I saw as repeated anti-other-Semite comments, because I feel those anti-Arab/ anti-Muslim comments only promote this war. Just trying to bring a little balance. Believe it or not, I have never previously spoken out that way about any culture until I saw the crap posted on here, which made me look into those that were posting it, and I can thank you for encouraging me to learn more about the PNAC too.
Ask me a question and I’ll try to answer it, ask me to ‘defend’ my view & I’ll try to, but try to insult me and I’ll try to do it better. And sometimes I’ll try to defend those that have no voice on here.
Show me where I’m wrong and I’ll possibly even acknowledge it.
I do wish to be enlightened.
To my knowledge, only the last topic I posted on here was really riddled with half-truths and lies (not all), and that was in retaliation of like posts.
posted on March 29, 2003 09:59:54 AM new
"Just trying to bring a little balance."?????
It has been more than obvious from your statements and references that you are not just playing devil's advocate. I don't recall anyone here condemning all Muslims so as to perhaps justify a "defense" on your part. Your knee-jerk reaction to those who may, for example, approve of ethnic profiling in light of 9/11 showed your true colors. You have clearly demonstrated that you are an anti-semite, and since you admittedly will post "riddled with half-truths and lies" to "retaliate" you have absolutely NO credibility when you try to defend your actions. This thread will not get you accepted as a person with whom others can enjoy a reasonable discussion or debate. Go to Iraq as a human shield or go take on the Israeli army as your postings indicate you would enjoy.
posted on March 29, 2003 01:44:02 PM new
We are all responsible for what we say stusi and I think austbounty is trying to do that from his post. Maybe nobody agrees with what he says but the fact that he's willing to talk about his views says plenty imho.
posted on March 29, 2003 02:47:26 PM new
kraft- the fact is that austbounty has NOT been forthright in his views! He is abviously anti-semitic but has never admitted it. He does, however, admit to "half-truths and lies". This shows no responsibility whatsoever! The truth is he does not talk about his views. He talks AROUND his views! All of this does in fact say plenty.
posted on March 29, 2003 04:09:46 PM new
I think most of us here aren't racist or haters of other cultures. When it come to the inhumane aspects of another culture, however, that evil is fair game.
How do you define evil?
Here are a few suggestions;
Saddam Hussein
Adolf Hitler
Satan
I know there are a lot more bona fide examples, but those three come up so easily . . .
posted on March 29, 2003 06:21:17 PM new
Stusi, you once said to me “You take a comedian's routine as somehow representative of the Jewish religion to supposedly justify your anti-semitism?”
No I take the “routine” of the PNAC and Hollywood, both of which seem to be well represented with those that can be identified as being Jewish, as somehow being representative of the Jewish/Israeli community.
Did you lie about that, NO; you just don’t answer.
Show me a person that can claim to not have lied, and I will show you a liar.
You also said “One can certainly be against Israel's political policies and not be anti-semitic. And one certainly need not be pro-Jew to avoid an anti-semitic label. But one who is anti-Jewish based on religious beliefs is indeed an anti-semite. “
If the Zionist belief is an integral part of Judaism, then I guess I must be an anti-Semite, because I see no valid reason to want a land back after 2000 years. How many people truly see a valid reason to give America back to the Indians or Australia back to the Aboriginals.
A documentary on TV the other night was about the ‘Philistines’ and that the ancient Romans and Greeks both perceived them as a threat because of their superior intellectual achievements. The Romans and Ancient Greeks, capitalised on the Philistine alleged occasional practice of sacrificing their first born son, and used it as a propaganda to promote their hatred.
This reminded me of similar accusations made against Jews by many Europeans from the middle ages up to WW.II.
Then, being that I still don’t know who are those descended from the Philistines, I found my self wishing to hear from the documentary that, the Jews are from them. Wishing to not hear that the Arabs are from them, thinking that it would give justification to to the ‘baby killer’ accusations of the modern day Jews. The documentary finished and I still don’t know, but I did quickly realised that what I ‘wished’ to hear was actually a good indicator of what you would call anti-Semitism. I saw flaw in my reasoning and corrected it.
Regardless of who are the descendants of the Philistines, those were ‘olden days’ long gone, and many and possibly most if not all cultures have committed similar ‘evil’ acts out of what we now should recognise as ignorance.
Why do I say this? Because I’m trying to remain ‘objective’, believe it or not, and I will change my views/beliefs if given evidence, even if only ‘logic’.
The fact is I only see, with insignificant exception, Jews promoting hatred of Arabs. They are being ant-Semites (Jews not included).
Kraftdiner and Helen, aren’t austbount’ites just because they agree with some things I may say, they have clearly objected to some comments I have made which they viewed as ant-Semitic.
Hell,… reamond and I are even fully aligned in one of his statements “Bush interjecting his religious beliefs into his official pronouncements will poison the peace process”
ferncrestmotel evil??
Sadam, Yes
&
Sharon- Guilty of war crimes by Belgian court (devils advocate here again)
& if not Bush, then those encouraging Bush et.al.
and the Israeli, responsible for the shooting of the Palestinian stone throwing boy yesterday.
posted on March 29, 2003 07:47:20 PM new
I'll have you all know that Enchanted and rawbunzel are both tied for having the shortest manifestos on record. Both are under a minute.
posted on March 29, 2003 07:47:35 PM newThen, being that I still don’t know who are those descended from the Philistines..
austbounty: You seem preoccupied with the idea that today's Jews are not semitic, somehow not "real Jews". Have you looked into any of the research that is being done worldwide on people with the surname Cohen, and it's variants? In biblical times, the Cohens were the priestly class among the Jews...they were the Philistines, or at least part of them. Well, guess what? Geneticists are discovering through the tracing of marker genes, that nearly all of the world's current Cohens are related. There is even a tribe of black Jews in Africa who had always claimed to be the descendents of Cohens, and it turns out they are.So much for your theory of some big change between the original Hebrews and today's Jews, I'd say.
posted on March 29, 2003 08:08:27 PM new
Since Austi promised he would NOT return to posting his rantings and he did, we can all surmise that all he says are lies.
posted on March 29, 2003 10:04:28 PM new
bear, 2+2=4
You may summarise that all I have to say is a lie, the choice is yours, rightly or wrongly.
Thanks for the education prof.
I was very interested to know, who the Philistines were.
The documentary lead me to believe that the Philistines disappeared, destroyed, BC along with their city or cities which apparently had 6 level multi apartment buildings as apparently did their libraries and all books disapear. I also thought it a shame, neigh a tragedy (I kid you not) that such a civilisation was lost.
No I haven’t been researching into Jewish names, I thought Rumsfeld was Jewish, then they tell me it’s German, now they tell me it’s Jewish, I’ve got no Idea.
But on the black/Jewish association, on more than one occasion have I seen on American movies a black man jokingly suggest he’s Jewish, why would they do that in a movie.
When we say “Geneticists are discovering through the tracing of marker genes, that nearly all of the world's current Cohens are related”, we must also apply scepticism and ask, WHO provided this scientific test and can it be replicated or re-proven.
For example, archaeologists are discovering that the walls of Jericho came down 100 Years before Joseph or before the Hebrews left Egypt, but I noted that those archaeologists were primarily Palestinian. Not meaning that ‘agenda’ necessarily invalidates ones findings, Palestinian, American or otherwise.
The point I’m trying to make is that through ‘discussion’ and examination of opposing opinions or statements, we may gain some intellectual enlightenment, if we permit our minds to stay open.
But McCarthyism is still rampant, and now it’s even being used to stop opposition to the war.
posted on March 29, 2003 11:41:23 PM new
If you were to answer ‘YES’ to Do you believe that Palestine has a right to exist?
Rightly or wrongly, I would be equally justified in saying ‘Well, most of your Israeli friends would disagree.’
BUT, it’s clear who has the upper hand. And that doesn’t make it right.
ps, I don't have any Palestinian friends, but I guess that would depend on your definition of friend.
posted on March 30, 2003 08:48:00 AM new
austbounty: I just realized I mispoke. There were apparently some alliances between the Kohanim (the priest class, or Cohens) and the Philistines, but they were alliances of convenience. I was incorrect to state that the Kohanim were part of them...sorry. Anyhow, here's an interesting article which points to research about the genetic integrity of virtually all Jewish populations world-wide with their middle eastern roots:
1.With the exception of Ethiopian Jews,all Jewish samples show a high genetic correlation. Male Jews of Russian and Polish ancestry have a Y-chromosome profile more like that of male Moroccan, Kurdish, and Iraqi Jews than like that of Russian and Polish non-Jews; male Jews of Yemenite ancestry are closer to Jews from Rome than to Muslims from Yemen. 2. Besides being closely related to each other, Jewish male populations correlate highly with Palestinian Arabs, Syrians, and Lebanese
posted on March 30, 2003 08:48:30 AM new
Bear I think has hit on it closest... can't keep his word about leaving, why should he be believed when he comes back...
posted on March 30, 2003 07:41:05 PM new
12pole,
‘Some’ things that even you say are true.
We have a brain, even you and I. We are able to determine many things for ourselves, ‘truth’, if able to analyse information before us. If you choose to disbelieve everything I say, It’s your loss, it’s small mindedness, If I tell you 2+2=4 and you choose to disbelieve it, that’s your loss, you’re wrong.
“can't keep his word about leaving, why should he be believed when he comes back...” This sentiment is felt globally about US leadership too. Difference is, I can’t force you to bend to my will, nor am I a global power in control of Nukes and with great economic influence on others’ EXISTANCE..
If you wish to know truth, beware, it ‘may’ and more likely ‘will’ handicap you in discovering ‘truth’ and ‘right’ from ‘wrong’, if you ‘believe’ or ‘disbelieve’ ‘everything’ from ‘anyone’.
Save that sort of blind faith or ‘dogma’ for religion.
USA, through past actions, has discredited itself in the eyes of the world much more than I ever could discredit myself.
Bear, I know that I can’t spell well, but I believe my logic reasonably sound ‘comparatively speaking’. Logic tells me that poor spelling does not ‘discredit’ the validity of the opinions I’m attempting to express. Can’t you agree with ‘anything’ I say.
I can’t see how some get from ‘Liar Liar’ to ‘Pants on Fire’.
posted on March 30, 2003 08:11:14 PM new
I forgot to tell you, it's nice to see you've returned austi.
P.S. Some of the posters here don't want to understand you. I think it's some kind of trick to try and get you to justify every word you've ever posted so the thread can continue for days or weeks in a narrow-minded fashion.
posted on March 31, 2003 08:36:47 AM new
Austbounty, just go away.
You said you were leaving.
Why the f* did you bother to come back?
I pity whoever it is that has to live with you.
I have seen the light, I’m anti American, and there are more to follow, from all over the world.
Go find your 'followers'.
You're barking up the wrong tree.
