posted on April 2, 2003 05:18:17 PM new
I was just watching a report on the family of Jesus Suarez Del Solar, a 20 years old marine killed early in the war. They have two issues that they are dealing with right now.
1) They have not been able to get a definative answer from the Marines on how Jesus was killed. The marines have given them three vague stories. They most difinative answer they have gotten came almost accidentaly when they caught a report from an embedded reporter that had been with his division that said that he stepped on a mine. The report also included interview footage the with Jesus from a couple days prior to his death that they had not seen. (BTW - If there is one arguement to be made for the embeds, this is it. his family was able to see and hear him one last time).
2) This one infuriates me. Although they still do not have and are trying to arrange to get their son / husbands body back., the family has just found out that the marine corp pays only $4500 towards burial. With all of the money being thrown away on inane studies today, and the money being budgeted towards this effort it is absurd to me that the governement and military is so out of touch with current costs of burial and give so little to inter those who gave so much.
posted on April 2, 2003 05:25:35 PM new
neonmania - On the $4,500.00 benefit...did they call it a burial benefit or was that the insurance they will pay is beneficary? Marines can purchase life insurance, just as we do in the corporate world. The more they pay...the larger the benefit.
The question is not what a man can scorn, or disparage, or find fault with, but what he can love, and value, and appreciate. J. Ruskin
posted on April 2, 2003 05:27:28 PM new
$4500 will get you a nice funeral, albeit not an elaborate one but a functional one... cremation is also not very expensive if that is the chosen method...
SGLI was almost $50,000 when I was in...several years ago...it is now $250,000 if he elected for the full coverage
AIN'T LIFE GRAND...
[ edited by Twelvepole on Apr 2, 2003 05:41 PM ]
posted on April 2, 2003 05:39:35 PM new
$4500 will get you a nice funeral, albeit not an elaborate one but a functional one... cremation is also not very expensive if that is the chosen method...
Twelve. A minimal funeral in San Diego runs about 6k. Del Solar held dual citizenship, his family is in Tijuana. His wife and 1 year old son are here on this side. Luckily for this family the people of Tijuana are donating to help the family but not every family will be that lucky.
My outrage is over the fact that they have news conferences and call them heros. They should pay to bury them as heros as well.
Linda - The 4500 is the burial benefit. As for the insurance, his wife will recieve $1400 a month (recent study in San Diego shows that a single mother must make $2200 a month to live above poverty level).
posted on April 2, 2003 05:47:43 PM new
Neon, Military is not a charity service... $1400/month is nice (even though I don't see where you came up with that figure) and that means she only has to work a job to make up any extra she needs.
I am failing to understand the outrage... hell veterans only get $250 toward our burials...
posted on April 2, 2003 05:54:52 PM new
By no means am I trying to be callous here, but.....
SGLI is available in increments of $10,000. or $20,000. at a very nominal cost and is offered to all the military personnel. It seems odd to me that he didn't have at least the minimal coverage.
As far as a single mom needing $2200./month to live above poverty level...there is no reason she cannot supplement the $1400./month by working. I am a single mom with NO assistance - and I provide nicely for my child. You just do what you have to do...
"Be kind. Remember everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle." - Harry Thompson
posted on April 2, 2003 05:58:59 PM new Military is not a charity service... $1400/month is nice
But the morons who put him in harm's way only have to do a few years, never, ever put their life on the line because of what someone else wants. And they leave with burial benefits and retirement benefits 1000 times greater than those they send to DIE! The President will spend only four years of service(thank our living God) and leave with a pension worth more per year than he drew during the four years he was in office.
"Beware the leader who bangs the drums of war in order to whip the citizenry into a patriotic fervor, for patriotism is indeed a double-edged sword. It both boldens the blood, just as it narrows the mind. And when the drums of war have reached a fever pitch and the blood boils with hate and the mind has closed, the leader will have no need in seizing the rights of the citizenry. Rather, the citizenry, infused with fear and blinded by patriotism, will offer up all of their rights unto the leader and gladly so. How do I know? For this is what I have done. And I am Caesar."
- Julius Caesar
[ edited by mlecher on Apr 2, 2003 06:03 PM ]
posted on April 2, 2003 06:03:39 PM new
mlecher you may have been drafted.... this young man was a volunteer... For someone that is supposed to be anti-communist, you sure seem to have a problem with someone who decided to work hard and make more of themselves...
This young man did this country a great service... but he volunteered just like I did when I was in... I will say it again the Military is not a Charity service... they have a great life insurance program, better than most companies provide...
posted on April 2, 2003 06:07:41 PM new
The President only "volunteered" also, and only for a temp job at that. Just so he could loot the coffers for his buds.
This soldier gave his all for this country. And we treat the ultimate sacrifice like a bothersome charity case. If the administration could have left his body to rot on the battlefield, they would have.
And Bush work to improve himself? You haven't been paying attention have you? But that is YOUR style!
You see, we TRUE American don't want much in the way of Health benefits, Burial benefits and Retirement benefits. We just want the same ones as the temp workers in WASHINGTON DC.
"Beware the leader who bangs the drums of war in order to whip the citizenry into a patriotic fervor, for patriotism is indeed a double-edged sword. It both boldens the blood, just as it narrows the mind. And when the drums of war have reached a fever pitch and the blood boils with hate and the mind has closed, the leader will have no need in seizing the rights of the citizenry. Rather, the citizenry, infused with fear and blinded by patriotism, will offer up all of their rights unto the leader and gladly so. How do I know? For this is what I have done. And I am Caesar."
- Julius Caesar
[ edited by mlecher on Apr 2, 2003 06:13 PM ]
posted on April 2, 2003 06:19:35 PM new
There are thousands of relatives that have no idea how their loved ones died from the wars of the 20th century. No one was outraged. Thousands are buried in foreign lands.
$1400 a month in Mexico would be a very priveledged existence for the widow and her son, something I would consider.
But as with all jobs of which there are many that can do it, the pay and benefits aren't that great. With the way health insurance and retirement benefits are in the private sector, the military is becomming very competitive.
posted on April 2, 2003 06:39:26 PM new
Right out of college, I went to work for USAir and had great benefits (which I paid for), but were in line with the risks of the job (hijacking, crashes, etc.)
My last job was for a major retailer and I travelled a great deal, mostly to the Orient...and also had great benefits. Again, it wasn't a job without risks. I don't think there is a job without risks, come to think of it.
Having grown up in a military family, I have a great respect for men and women who serve our country. Giving your life is the ultimate sacrifice, and very admirable. I am not trying to diminish that fact at all.
As simple as it sounds, I think the best thing his wife can do now is be a good mom to their child and keep his memory alive.
"Be kind. Remember everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle." - Harry Thompson
posted on April 2, 2003 06:42:43 PM new
How mighty WHITE of you...
$1400 a month in Mexico would be a very priveledged existence for the widow and her son, something I would consider.
Her husband gave his life for America so she and his child will have to live OUTSIDE of America or STARVE TO DEATH.
I bet you she feels real priviledged....
"Beware the leader who bangs the drums of war in order to whip the citizenry into a patriotic fervor, for patriotism is indeed a double-edged sword. It both boldens the blood, just as it narrows the mind. And when the drums of war have reached a fever pitch and the blood boils with hate and the mind has closed, the leader will have no need in seizing the rights of the citizenry. Rather, the citizenry, infused with fear and blinded by patriotism, will offer up all of their rights unto the leader and gladly so. How do I know? For this is what I have done. And I am Caesar."
- Julius Caesar
posted on April 2, 2003 06:47:56 PM new
Yes, twelvepole and that $250,000 cost just a little more than $16.00 a month.
neonmania - When a soldier chooses to live on base, housing is free. No rent, water bill, trash bill, etc.
If they want to live off base, they are given a 'housing allotment'. Their choice.
I believe it's the same with if you want the military to bury you, or if you want to do a private funeral. They do it for free, you do it and you get the allotment.
The question is not what a man can scorn, or disparage, or find fault with, but what he can love, and value, and appreciate. J. Ruskin
posted on April 2, 2003 06:53:41 PM new$1400 a month in Mexico would be a very priveledged existence for the widow and her son, something I would consider.
something you obviously have NOT considered: Is his widow a Mexican citizen? Being the wife of a Mexican citizen does not give you automatic citizenship any more than being the wife of an American does. Living in Mexico on the princely sum of 1400 dollars a month may not be an option for her.
posted on April 2, 2003 07:00:39 PM new
Most of the troops live in poverty. New recruits make less than 300.00 per week. Even though they have the benefits mentioned, at the end of the month most have nothing left and are without food.
It's shameful.
But, in a recent story, I found that the burial costs are reimbursed up to $6,900 and members who died on active duty are eligible to be buried in Arlington National Cemetery. Survivors are given 6,000 to provide immediate cash.
posted on April 2, 2003 07:08:15 PM newMost of the troops live in poverty. New recruits make less than 300.00 per month. Even though they have the benefits mentioned, at the end of the month most have nothing left and are without food.
Single new recruits live in dorms and eat in the dining hall. Sounds like a few finance/money management classes need to be added to basic training.
I don't think any of us were fortunate enough to start out making six figures when we entered the workforce, you work with what you have and supplement where you need to
"Be kind. Remember everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle." - Harry Thompson
posted on April 2, 2003 07:16:04 PM new
From the link I provided above:
Active Duty Personnel
When a Member dies on active duty the military will provide thefollowing:
Preparation and disposition of the remains, casket, and transportation to a place designated by the NOK.
Cremation and urn.
A U.S. Flag to drape the casket.
Military honors.
Burial in any national cemetery for the soldier and eligible family members.
A regulation government headstone or marker.
Then is goes on:
Burial costs:
The military assumes responsibility and will prepare and casket the remains at no charge to the family.
When the service arranges preparation and casket, and the remains are consigned to a funeral home with burial in:
(1) a civilian cemetery, the maximum reimbursable amount is $4,325;
(2) in a government cemetery the maximum reimbursable amount is $3,000.
If the remains are consigned directly for burial in a government cemetery the maximum reimbursable amount is $600.
If the family arranges preparation and casket, and burial is:
(1) in a civilian cemetery the maximum reimbursable amount is $6,900;
(2) in a government cemetery the maximum reimbursable is $5,550.
Government headstones are ordered and erected automatically in national cemeteries. For markers in a civilian cemetery, an application must be submitted to the Director, Headstone Service (42A) Department of Veterans Affairs, National Cemetery System, Washington, D.C. 20420.
Dependents of Active Duty Personnel. The remains of certain eligible dependents of members serving on active duty (except for training) may be transported at government expense from the place of death to the place of interment. The nearest installation will assist in issuance of necessary papers. Only transportation is authorized.
The question is not what a man can scorn, or disparage, or find fault with, but what he can love, and value, and appreciate. J. Ruski
[ edited by Linda_K on Apr 2, 2003 07:18 PM ]
posted on April 2, 2003 07:56:02 PM new
On the subject of military pay, many of the married soldiers with kids do have a rough time financially. But single soldiers who live in the barracks can afford to buy expensive electronics and new cars and still have plenty left over for beer, pool and strip clubs. Not too bad, fresh out of high school.
All soldiers are required to buy a $125,000 life insurance policy, with an option to upgrade it to $250,000.
posted on April 2, 2003 08:01:44 PM new
::$1400 a month in Mexico would be a very priveledged existence for the widow and her son, something I would consider.::
Reamond - her husband held dual citizenship, she does not.
His family moved to the US to help him get a better life then returned to Mexico. Why should she have to deny her child the opportunities that her husband fought to retain?
posted on April 2, 2003 08:06:01 PM new
::There are thousands of relatives that have no idea how their loved ones died from the wars of the 20th century. No one was outraged. Thousands are buried in foreign lands. ::
My grandfather is one of them, but that was a long time and many steps back technologically.
Why is it that the Marine Corps can't tell this family how their loved one died but by tuning in to the right station just by chance a television network can?
posted on April 2, 2003 08:55:08 PM new
Lawmakers are expected to push aggressively for new and expedited benefits and services for military families now that the numbers of killed, missing in action and prisoners of war are increasing, experts say.
Everyone is scrambling to see what they can do,” observed Kathy Moakler of the National Military Family Association, a non-profit advocacy group that facilitates aid for military families and educates the public, the military community and Congress on available benefits and services.
There are several measures afoot in Congress to aid military families, with at least two that would directly affect family members of those servicemen and women killed in action. As of Wednesday, there were 48 Americans killed in Operation Iraqi Freedom.
On Monday, the Senate passed a bill introduced by Sen. Susan Collins, R-Maine, which would increase the death gratuity to survivors of those killed in action to $12,000 from $6,000. House aides say there might be a similar provision rolled into the defense budget.
“We can never fully repay the debt of our nation to those who have laid down their lives for the cause of freedom,” Collins said after her bill was passed Monday.
“The best we can do is honor their memory, ensure that their sacrifice is not in vain and help provide for their families,” she added.
The gratuity is given to family members within 72 hours of the death of an active duty serviceman or woman. The last time that the death gratuity was raised was in 1991 during the Persian Gulf War. At that time, it was increased from $3,000 to $6,000.
Last week, the House passed a bill introduced by Rep. Walter Jones Jr., R-N.C., which would make the current $6,000 gratuity entirely tax exempt.
“Our troops, both past and present must know Congress stands behind them 100 percent," Jones said following the vote. "If these men and women can stand to give their lives as they fight for our freedom, then the least we can do is vote to benefit their way of life."
According to Department of Defense officials, there are number of benefits, in addition to the gratuity, which serve to help survivors maintain their quality of life after tragedy. They include:
— [b]Rent-free government housing for 180 days and paid moving expenses;
— Burial costs;
— The unused leave of the service member;
— Life insurance totaling $250,000 or more depending on individual’s plan;
— Social Security benefits;
— Lifelong healthcare, prescription drugs and dental care;
— Lifelong commissary and exchange privileges;
— Forty-five months of education tuition provided by the Veterans Administration Education Benefit; and
— Dependency and Indemnity Compensation pay, which is a lifelong monthly check to surviving spouses who don't remarry. The payment is $945 per month, with an additional $234 for each dependent child under 18 years.[b]
Some survivors also qualify for monthly payments under the Uniformed Services Survivor Benefit.
Immediately after notification of a loved one’s death, family members are assigned a casualty assistance officer who steers the bereaved through the labyrinth of benefits and services, said Moakler. There are also family support centers on each military installation and through each of the branches of the armed services.
“You can never, never replace that service member,” she said. “But it is a very good package.”
Family members of American prisoners of war and missing in action, of which there are officially seven and 16 respectively as of Wednesday, will continue to get their regular benefits. There is also a strong network of support services for families available to them, according to Jim Russell, chief of the missing persons branch of the Air Force Casualty Matters Division.
While the focus is trying to get their loved one back, he said, service members’ spouses and children are afforded certain benefits, like tuition and health care, as well as housing on base for at least a year. The service members’ pay is continued and it’s exempt from federal income taxes, said Russell.
“We really try to help the families out – from a support standpoint, not only just benefits,” he said, adding that his office acts as a liaison for family members, distributing any information about their loved one that the military can provide. “We, too, are looking for a happy ending.”
Yet nothing can replace the dread felt by military families whose relatives are killed, missing or held captive.
Families of American POWs were given little hope Monday as eleven bodies were discovered in and near the hospital where Pfc. Jessica Lynch, a POW, was found alive. Lynch was one of 13 Americans from the 507th Maintenance Division who disappeared after their convoy was ambushed in the early days of the war.
The bodies had not been identified Wednesday, but at least some were believed to be Americans, a military spokesman said. Five other members of the 507th Maintenance Division are confirmed POWs. Family members of those casualties and prisoners all would receive services from the military.
Scott VanDerheyden, a Marine Corps Persian Gulf War veteran who works with the National Veterans Service Fund in Connecticut, said private organizations outside of the bureaucracy are good at filling in the gap in family assistance, as well putting families in touch with the right aid – whether it be government benefits or outside assistance.
He said he expects that now that the number of dead servicemen is rising, there will be intense lobbying on behalf of lawmakers to ensure that families are getting the help they are entitled to.
“There is a lot of bureaucracy involved and I would assume that the government would do everything possible to make the process as painless as they can,” VanDerheyden said. “Hopefully, with the help of a lot of federal, state and local lawmakers, they can push hard for the process to be expedited.”
posted on April 2, 2003 09:08:37 PM new
neonmania - The military is a large organization just like other government organizations are. They have certain procedures that have to be followed. Have you ever had to go down to your County Offices for any reason? It's a nightmare, nothing is accomplisted quickly.
I do understand your concern for this family. But these things have to be verified through several people...some who are busy fighting a war. And the government can't take what one embeded reporter said and not work through the normal channels.
They will tell the family just as soon as they are able to do so. They give fallen soldiers a high priority.
The question is not what a man can scorn, or disparage, or find fault with, but what he can love, and value, and appreciate. J. Ruskin
posted on April 2, 2003 09:37:25 PM new
Bear - thank you for the information. Things are definately better than the news reports here led me to believe. I'm especially impresse with the college tuition. At only 20 years old, helping his wife get the education to assist her in supporting herself and their child for the long run will be much better for her and her son than just a check. (Not that the check isn't going to help. - you still have day care, rent and food in the meantime).
posted on April 3, 2003 10:03:58 AM new
The benefits are much better than being killed in a hold-up at the 7-11 or passing away at most other private sector jobs.
The "technology" we have today has done nothing to take away the fog of war.
re: moving to Mexico. If Mexico is like the US, being married to a citizen can bring citizenship. Her in-laws are there also. But, there are many fixed income American retirees that live in Mexico just because the dollars go much farther.
Add in the tutition benefits, and there is an incentive to stay in the states.
I am grateful that this young man served the country, but I also have reservations about the "best and brightest" coming to America from places like Mexico.
America can not survive as an island or life raft for the world.
I think it would be most gratfying if these good people would come to America for an education and even military service and then go back home to improve their own country. It would be great if this young widow would get her education and go to Mexico and improve the country- even if she is not Latino, her son and in-laws are.
posted on April 3, 2003 01:02:13 PM new
Helen that is not poverty, when EVERYTHING is paid for (ie medical, eye, living quarters on base, food in the mess hall etc). Oftentimes, the servicemembers, particularly the young ones, blow their money on stereos, and other "luxury" items. From my experience and knowledge, it is oftentimes the family servicemember who would have the money the week before payday whereas the single with no children, living in the barracks etc, servicemembers that would run out of money.
But go ahead Helen believe what you will.
-----
I guess I just repeated what has already been said, but will leave my post to agree with the assessment of the spending habits of the soldiers.
posted on April 3, 2003 02:30:57 PM new
::I am grateful that this young man served the country, but I also have reservations about the "best and brightest" coming to America from places like Mexico. ::
Why? Certainly you don't worry that they are coming in as "sleeper agents", is there something genetically wrong with them that makes you feel they may not be worthy? If so, do you hink that the Military would offer a "citizenship for service" program? What is it that you feel that you know about Latinos that the military is unaware of?
:: It would be great if this young widow would get her education and go to Mexico and improve the country- even if she is not Latino, her son and in-laws are. ::
If she is not a Mexican citizen why should she leave? If she is a blue eyed, blond haired california girl that fell in love with a Latino man, why should she be expected to take her raise her child in Mexico? If her husband had been a Canadian would you be saying the same thing?
I don't see you making these statements about Dominican or Philipino or any other nationallity of soldiers. Why such distaste towards Latinos that you even wish that the wife of a slain one would basically just take her money and her child and leave?
