posted on April 2, 2003 08:34:45 PM new
Stir Continues Over Columbia Professor's Comments
The controversy over a Columbia University assistant professor who called for the bloody defeat of U.S. troops in Iraq refuses to die, with critics heaping scorn and supporters saying he has gone into hiding after receiving numerous death threats.
A graduate student told the Columbia Spectator that Nicholas De Genova and his wife were "fearing for their lives" after receiving some 1,000 threatening phone and e-mail messages. The threats led De Genova to nix his two classes on Tuesday, according to the student newspaper.
De Genova told a campus "teach-in" last Wednesday that he wanted to see the U.S. defeated in Iraq and suffer "a million Mogadishus" — a reference to the 1993 Somalia ambush that left 18 Americans dead.
"The only true heroes are those who find ways that help defeat the U.S. military," he said at an anti-war event attended by students and faculty.
A school senior whose father is an Army colonel serving in Kuwait was among those who slammed De Genova's remarks.
"A Columbia professor wished death upon the father of a Columbia University student and possibly [on the parents of] other students," William Pratt told the New York Post, adding he was "appalled and devastated" by De Genova’s harsh remarks.
"What really pushes me over the edge is when a professor basically wishes for the slaughter of U.S. military men and women who gave him the right to free speech and to make those disgusting comments," Pratt told the Post.
University President Lee C. Bollinger released a statement distancing himself and the school from De Genova, who was apparently a last-minute add-on to the teach-in lineup.
"I am shocked that someone would make such statements. Because of the university’s tradition of academic freedom, I normally don’t comment about statements made by faculty members. However, this one crosses the line and I really feel the need to say something. I am especially saddened for the families of those whose lives are at risk," Bollinger said in his Friday statement.
The university has not publicly said if De Genova’s job as an assistant professor is in jeopardy over the scandal. De Genova does not have tenure.
Though most university officials and trustees declined to comment on the controversy when contacted by Fox News, one said he supported Bollinger’s statement.
"My mind turns with admiration to the deaths and wounds and countless other sacrifices suffered by tens of thousands of brave U.S. military people to establish and protect American rights of free speech ... even free speech as outrageous, insensitive, thoughtless and offensive as that reportedly uttered by Professor De Genova," said attorney Stephen Case.
Some students defended the professor. About two dozen of his students took part in a silent protest on Tuesday, as they sat quietly outside in the rain to show their support of De Genova and their displeasure with the university’s handling of the matter.
"We feel that the university has failed to protect Nick," anthropology grad student Ayca Cubukcu told the Spectator.
posted on April 2, 2003 09:18:23 PM new
Bet some here wouldn't even find those statements anti-American.
In hiding huh? LOL Did he think no one would find what he said the least bit offensive?
The question is not what a man can scorn, or disparage, or find fault with, but what he can love, and value, and appreciate. J. Ruskin
posted on April 2, 2003 10:14:09 PM new
.: De Genova told a campus "teach-in" last Wednesday that he wanted to see the U.S. defeated in Iraq and suffer "a million Mogadishus" — a reference to the 1993 Somalia ambush that left 18 Americans dead.
"The only true heroes are those who find ways that help defeat the U.S. military," he said at an anti-war event attended by students and faculty.:.
Shouldn't these statements be considered treason?
[ edited by ebayauctionguy on Apr 2, 2003 10:16 PM ]
posted on April 3, 2003 06:28:33 AM new
In this country, where we have an emotional attachment to our country and love for our troops, that is an outrageous and shocking statement.
Conservative news sources all over America have rushed to exploit this news and as a result, professors with or without tenure and reporters - one with a pulitizer prize, are suddenly silenced , intimidated and manipulated.
In a hypothetical situation, assuming that China is invading America....what would you think if a tenured professor in China made a similar statement about his country. Most here would think, Hey, what a courageous and insightful guy to recognize this invasion by China against America as unjust and say what he thinks without a selfish consideration for loss of his job or standing in his community.
Please don't jump to the conclusion that I am supporting what this professor said. Wishing death on troops in America is just as wrong as it would be in China. I'm just thinking about how patriotism can influence our feelings and how freedom of speech is being affected.
We're all evil.
Helen
ed. to change preposition, of
[ edited by Helenjw on Apr 3, 2003 07:12 AM ]
posted on April 3, 2003 07:35:30 AM new
hogwash!
The question is not what a man can scorn, or disparage, or find fault with, but what he can love, and value, and appreciate. J. Ruskin
posted on April 3, 2003 07:37:31 AM new
Helen,
We aren't a communist country. I think some Chinese Professors and students did make statements against their counties government.
They are no longer with us in spirit or body.
There's a big difference.
I can understand how you can make this hypothetical question. You don't think communism is wrong. China is not a real nice country to live in.
posted on April 3, 2003 08:06:58 AM new
Helen, I am beginning to think you have no love for this country whatsoever... is your hatred of President Bush made you so blind that you can no longer see?
That scum, at the least deserves to be fired, at the most to be fired... as much as I hate what he said, it is his right to say it... but there needs to be some consequences for saying it...
So you are saying that because of fear they no longer will freely speak? Then it wasn't really worth hearing after all now was it...
AIN'T LIFE GRAND...
[ edited by Twelvepole on Apr 3, 2003 08:42 AM ]
posted on April 3, 2003 01:18:19 PM new
To me there is a world of difference between what Arnett said and this guy.
Arnett expressed opinion on the state of the war. He did not even hint at any personal preferance. He did not say - Hey way to go! If you can't express that you think it's going badly without being a traitor then the generals have to lie to Bush if they have a problem don't they? How many kingdoms have fallen because you couldn't tell the head guy the truth? It is counter productive to have yes men. This professor however is an advocate. He is taking sides, not just factually saying something they don't want to hear. Completely different.
[ edited by gravid on Apr 3, 2003 01:20 PM ]
posted on April 3, 2003 01:57:56 PM new
I will take up an article I did see about 2 NM teachers suspended for allowing their students to post War posters, some anti, some pro... now that is not right.
posted on April 3, 2003 02:28:30 PM new
They said the school wished to avoid anything controversial. Makes for rather bland lessons that. No current affairs at all I suppose.
There certainly is a BIG difference between what Arnett said and what this guy said. My point was that because of what is said, whether it's simply truth as in Arnett's case or a radical idea spoken by the professor at a rally, it's being used to supress free speech. Why should a reporter telling the truth and simply restating what everyone already knew be fired? The reason was the outrage of patriotic Americans because he told the truth in the wrong PLACE. So, you can tell the truth here but not there.
I'm concerned about the inevitability that patriotic concerns about speech leads to it's supression. Professors are now hushed. The media is controlled - the democrats are quiet - and that's frightening.
posted on April 3, 2003 11:22:28 PM new
Sorry it is not a radical idea - it is a call to arms and action. There is a point at which statements are no longer abstracts that are protected speech.
For example anyone can say I don't like Helenjw she irritates me. But when you say - Lets go kill Helenjw. Then that's conspiracy to commit murder.
The difference is not complex.
I'm sorry that you misunderstood my intent. I made it perfectly clear in my first post that I was NOT defending this professor's statement. Read it again.
Neither was I making an effort to compare this crazy comment with the Peter Arnett situation. You made that conclusion. And I suggest you read my first comment again.
BTW...If the professor's remark is interpreted as conspiracy to commit murder, I think we can agree that his statement is certainly a RADICAL idea.
Your response had nothing whatsoever to do with my first comment. You are arguing against a position that I have not taken.
posted on April 4, 2003 06:10:02 AM new
Imagine if there was the same radical reaction to "let's violently break away from England!"
We would all still be speaking English.
In my PERSONAL opinion, the professor should be rounded up and shipped overseas to personally exercise his beliefs with the side of his choice...
However, because I believe in the Constitution, he has the right to say what he did....And we have the right to dissapprove of what he said, ostracize him from society and speak out against what he said. But to threaten and harm him or to call for his death is the most Anti-Patriotic and UNAMERICAN of activities. Those are the tactics of Dictators and Despots and other with low IQ's....
Those were the tactics of Hitler's Brownshirts .
"Beware the leader who bangs the drums of war in order to whip the citizenry into a patriotic fervor, for patriotism is indeed a double-edged sword. It both boldens the blood, just as it narrows the mind. And when the drums of war have reached a fever pitch and the blood boils with hate and the mind has closed, the leader will have no need in seizing the rights of the citizenry. Rather, the citizenry, infused with fear and blinded by patriotism, will offer up all of their rights unto the leader and gladly so. How do I know? For this is what I have done. And I am Caesar."
- Julius Caesar
[ edited by mlecher on Apr 4, 2003 06:11 AM ]
