posted on May 7, 2003 06:05:27 AM new
Interesting read......
UC Berkeley program funded by Saudis with links to terrorism
Middle Eastern Studies Program accepted significant funds from groups linked to terrorism.
By Steve Sexton and Ben Barron 12:55 AM, 5/7/2003
UC Berkeley administrators ignored reports yesterday that a campus Middle Eastern studies program has accepted significant funds from groups and individuals linked to terrorism by the US State Department.
The Center for Middle Eastern Studies runs two programs whose stated missions are to increase ?understanding of Islam and of Muslim peoples and cultures in the United States and around the world.? But those programs are funded by a Saudi businessman and a member of the Saudi royal family who the State Department maintains are responsible for funneling money to groups that sponsor terrorism.
posted on May 7, 2003 03:17:51 PM new
Before you condemn Berkeley as a Satanist Mecca, you should take a look at where this article was originally published.
posted on May 7, 2003 03:41:18 PM new
"Reports of the connection between the UC Berkeley center’s funding and terrorism were first broken by the Berkeley Jewish Journal, a new UC Berkeley student magazine."
"But many prominent professors of the program do not exactly have a strong track record of supporting the United States and Israel."
U.S.I.???????????
How is it that many Americans see criticism of Israel as un-American?
Isn't it strange also that a criticism of Israel is more likely to draw a greater negative response on vendio than criticism of America.
There seem to be a certain group of people that do not like to see close ties between USA and any Islamic groups, how is it that not all Americans can see this, even in light of evidence.
No, no anti-Other-Semites here on Vendio, hell, there ain’t even any Jews.
Can they now resist responding; we’ll see.
posted on May 7, 2003 04:49:57 PM new
msincognito - So what exactly are you saying? That the informaton presented making a connection between the terrorists and the Berkeley school program aren't true BECAUSE they were first reported by a Jewish group of students?
If so that's pretty sad. To dismiss a very detailed article where connections are made very clearly, and I'm sure can be verified, because those who made a connection are Jewish is pretty closed minded, imo.
Remember University of South Florida professor Sami Al-Arian? When Bill O'Reilly first broken the story about his ties to terrorist groups, everyone dismissed the FACTS too....the only being because that Bill O'Reilly reported it. Well....guess what? Professor Sami Al-Arian was arrested.
UC Berkeley is the MOST radical university in the United States. The town of Berkeley is filled with the most radical political people in the US. They should be a country unto themself.
The question is not what a man can scorn, or disparage, or find fault with, but what he can love, and value, and appreciate. J. Ruskin
posted on May 7, 2003 05:18:31 PM new
The most radical political people in the country can be found inside the beltway not in a relatively small quiet college town in Northern California.
As to the most "Radical University" in the United States that can only be Bob Jones although I suppose conceding it to be a University is a stretch.
posted on May 7, 2003 05:37:43 PM new
I do find it interesting how many reports of high profile donations being made to or being funneled down from terrorist organiztions come from Isreal. A couple night ago I watched a report on Isreal poerting that some of the charitible donations made by Cat Stevens ended up in the hands of terrorists. They give no proof and refuse to show the tail but claim the KNOW it to be true.
After you hear these types of stories over and over it starts to smack as propaganda devisd to sabaotage islamic charitble organizations by casting a cloud of doubt over them and labeling them all as terrorist sympathizers.
posted on May 7, 2003 07:14:59 PM new
One calmly spoken Muslim raised their head here on round table, and some of the more prominent 'Israel sympathisers' here chased them away.
Calling names and accusing their faith of being the CAUSE of certain ‘evils’(to use a hawkonism).
posted on May 7, 2003 09:00:31 PM new
austbounty - I wasn't one of those people. But I have yet to read or hear about any terrorist attack being threatened/attempted or being caused by a Jewish person/group or from Israel against the US. They all have been from the ME.
posted on May 8, 2003 12:39:50 AM new
Well Linda,
You should learn more about the reality.
Israeli military forces have attacked and killed Americans, in your life time.
And I'm not talking about bulldozed Girls, like the one recently in Israel for 'obstruction'.
Israel does not overtly appear to be engaged in any military activity against America at the moment.
They must feel America is towing the line.
Here is something I previously wrote in responce to one of your neoconservative alies:-
Why is it that many of you are not surprised to hear a comment like the one from 12pole
"USS Liberty incident was a tragic event, but we were trying to spy during a war..."
That statement implies that US people ‘got what they deserved’.
I can not imagine USA tolerating such an action from anyone other than Israel.
It certainly does seem that Israel has a very special place in the Hearts and pockets of Americans.
American Members or the far right here on vendio like 12pole are usually the 1st to voice a strong demand for attack on any nation, which encroaches on USA in any way.
Although he/she and other like ‘hawks’ here, have never declared any personal associations or affiliations with Israel, their deeds are always in a manner, which support Israel.
With sentiments like those expressed by 12 above, in spite of denial or absence of admission, there is little doubt that their allegiances are truly in doubt and at best mixed, although they may not even see it.
posted on May 8, 2003 06:02:27 AM new
austbounty - Israeli military forces have attacked and killed Americans, in your life time. Not sure what or when you're referring to but I really wasn't referring to anything that happened that long ago...maybe just in the last couple of decades????
Israel does not overtly appear to be engaged in any military activity against America at the moment. They must feel America is towing the line. Oh yes....that *must* be it.....we're towing the line. LOL Now....that's REALLY funny....you do have a sense of humor.
"USS Liberty incident was a tragic event, but we were trying to spy during a war". That statement implies that US people 'got what they deserved'. I read his statement...and I disagree with your conclusion of what it implies. I agree with twelvepole.
Although he/she and other like 'hawks' here, have never declared any personal associations or affiliations with Israel, their deeds are always in a manner, which support Israel.
Yes, I've seen you continually express a 'need' to know everyone's affiliations. A concept you appear unable to understand is that one does not need to have any affiliation with Israel to form an opinion that they have been very tolerant of the actions of the terrorist bombers. That they only retaliate and are *not* the aggressors. That the Palestinians fought and LOST... That the actions of the terrorists are what's keep the two sides from working towards peace.
That Israel does want to make and live in peace but the terrorist actions are preventing that. That Israel is more accepting of other cultures/religions than are the Palestinians.
With sentiments like those expressed by 12 above, in spite of denial or absence of admission, there is little doubt that their allegiances are truly in doubt and at best mixed, although they may not even see it. In your 'mind set' that may be true....but it's not reality.
posted on May 8, 2003 02:39:11 PM newLindaK You asked, "What exactly are you saying?" I thought what I said was pretty clear but you've managed to completely misunderstand it. So let me break it down.
Before you condemn Berkeley as a Satanist Mecca....I was responding to the previous posters who seem to buy into the myth that Berkeley is some high temple of liberalism. It ain't. It's just well-known for having people who speak out - loud - on all sides of the political spectrum. Political goofiness is a tradition at Berkeley, but it's far from one-sided.
...you might want to take a look ... "Looking" involves seeing. Investigating. Instead of just knee-jerk reacting.
...at where this article was originally published. My point was that this article appeared in the California Patriot, which is an ultra-right-wing magazine published on the campus of the University of California at ...wait for it ....Berkeley. If it were such a den of left-wing evil, how in heaven's name would a right-wing magazine like this come to be published there?
It is perfectly clear to me that I was responding to the comments about Berkeley, not the article itself. But if you want my critique of the article - as someone who knows something about journalism - here goes: It sucks.
The suckitude starts with the first paragraph: "UC Berkeley administrators ignored reports yesterday that a campus Middle Eastern studies program has accepted significant funds from groups and individuals linked to terrorism by the US State Department."
First off, you can never assume that anyone "ignored" something. You can say they didn't respond, but unless you are sitting in their office watching them 24/7, you can't say they "ignored" it. (As it turned out, they didn't.) But that's not the biggest problem. What did they ignore? "Reports. Well, that raises the question: Reports from who?
That's where the whole ball of string comes unraveled. Turns out that there's not a scrap of original reporting in this article - no, not one. They lifted (and twisted) most of their information from the original article in the Berkeley Jewish Journal. The Patriot's plagiarism is clear when you read this story in the Daily Californian, Berkeley's main campus newspaper, which doesn't even mention the Patriot.
Furthermore, if you read carefully you'll see that all the inflammatory allegations in either story are traced back - not to official sources - but to highly biased reports. Most of it comes from lawsuits filed against the Middle-East groups involved (not judgements, just lawsuits, which can make any claim under the sun but don't have to prove it until trial.)
And nowhere does either story address:
1) How much money was donated by these groups
2) What percentage of the overall budget did these donations comprise, if indeed they were actually made? and
3) When the donations were made (before or after 9/11? Twelve years ago? Who knows?)
[ edited by msincognito on May 8, 2003 02:40 PM ]
posted on May 8, 2003 04:08:56 PM new
msincognito - Maybe YOU should be speaking for the UC Berkeley administration...since they won't answer these reports questions, and you appear to believe you have all the answers.
It doesn't matter what you say. You will never convince me nor change my mind that Berkeley isn't *THE* most liberal/left leaning off the edge university in our country. I lived in San Jose for over 22 years I can't remember reading ONE article that wasn't totally radical. And that hasn't changed. Since 9-11 they have been the least supportive of our country. Maybe you read they wanted American flags taken off emergency responders after 9-11 because OUR flags might OFFEND someone? Very anti-American, imo.
Also you said: "Before you condemn Berkeley as a Satanist Mecca". Just to be clear....those are YOUR words not mine. I stand firmly behind RADICAL and off the edge liberals....but I never said that.
And on the 'If Berkeley's so liberal why a magazine like this subject. I know you noticed it said it was a NEW UC Berkeley student magazine. And yes, there are a VERY small minority of students that aren't off the wall liberals...I've seen them interviewed on TV and they have spoken to the issue of being very much in the minority at that university.
It is a HIGH TEMPLE OF LIBERALISM and it earned that distinction many, many years ago.
posted on May 8, 2003 04:49:08 PM new
Ah, yes. Never let facts get in the way of a good opinion.
The Patriot article said the Berkeley Jewish Journal was a new magazine. In fact, it's not, having been around for more than a year. The Patriot was wrong. Big surprise.
(Have you not yet grasped that there are two magazines involved here?)
Unlike you, apparently, I've actually spent time on the campus of UC Berkeley recently (within the past two years) as part of a month-long fellowship program. I can tell you that whackos of all flavors are equally represented there. Not just "both sides." All 4,129 sides. There are about a jillion publications floating around, so if you didn't find something you liked, you weren't looking very hard. There are gay Republicans, Jews for Christ and militant vegans. On my way to one seminar I was told by a guy in an old-fashioned black frock coat that my "limbs were immodest" (I was wearing a skort) and invited to dinner by a Hare Krishna.
What made you think I was trying to convince you, anyway?
posted on May 8, 2003 04:50:39 PM new
Liberal is not a dirty word.
Thanks to liberals Social Security came into being, affordable and public housing was built as well as the great projects of the 20th century (Hoover Dam, GG Bridge etc.).
Thanks to the right Social Security and Medicare are being gutted, affordable housing is vanishing, unemployment is above 6%, Crime is increasing, rights are vanishing and the fiscal well being of the country is questionable.
Were I a right winger I would hang my head in shame.
And yes Berkeley earned it's reputation by demanding the right of free speech which once again is both in danger and unpopular.
And for the record I was in Berkeley this morning and was not required to renounce my citizinship upon entering the city limits.
posted on May 8, 2003 05:59:49 PM new
The Taliban is still in Afghanistan as well as Pakistan.
-Osama would is still running around Pakistan.
-Hundreds of terrorists are on the loose in the US (the ones Ashcroft didn't rounded up).
-Saddam Hussien is still in Iraq, and no one has found any WOMD's. (BTW I am not Pro Iraq or I should say Saddam nor was I ever)
-Had we sent the fuel and food as agreed North Korea would not have built nukes.
-The tax cut is a shell game redistributing wealth from the poor to the wealthy it only shifts the tax burden it does not eliminate it.
-Al Gore would've signed the Kyoto agreement, dealing a huge blow to the already weak US economy. <Although I'm not sure what the relevancy is to this discussion as he is not the president.> Some might view it as a financial sacrifice for the benefit of the environment. The sad truth: Money isn't everything.
_As to the election it was decided by a court not a vote which also is irrelevant to this discussion but for some reason the right loves to get coupe on that one.
Thank you for your concern as to my well being. However I should mention that I do not drink or smoke and am thinking clearly but do appreciate your concern.
posted on May 8, 2003 06:21:33 PM newWhat made you think I was trying to convince you, anyway? I never thought that you were. Just posting the 'other' side of the picture for those who have never lived in the Bay Area and aren't aware of how RADICAL UC Berkeley and the city really are...how people who are far left view the university and town. Fair and balanced, you know
---------------
ebayauctionguy - They're just having problems with all the American's that DO support our current President and the decisions he has made. Their own party is SO divided and struggling to find common ground. And if they don't come up with a candiate who supports the continue effort on hunting down terrorists...they're going to be facing another 4 years of Republican rule. AND....
Clinton did know about the WOMD in NK in 1998, according to an article Dick Morris wrote.
davebraun - Thanks to liberals Social Security came into being...yes and I believe they were the one's who also voted to tax the receiptants on those benefits.
The liberals want to 'take' from those who have worked very hard towards their 'American Dream' and give to those who didn't accomplish anything or weren't willing to do what it takes to succeed. That's called socialism.
posted on May 8, 2003 06:36:34 PM new
Dave, the Taliban, Osama and Saddam are all running for their lives. Not a single terrorist attack on US soil since Sept. 11, 2001.
You said, "Had we sent the fuel and food as agreed North Korea would not have built nukes." Wow, that statement is so foolish, it's scary.
You said, "The tax cut is a shell game redistributing wealth from the poor to the wealthy it only shifts the tax burden it does not eliminate it." The poor don't pay federal income taxes! Heck, I hardly pay any federal income taxes! Class warfare is un-American.
You complained that unemployment was at 6%. How high would unemployment be if Bush allowed more terrorist attacks, did not give us tax cuts, and then signed the Kyoto treaty?
As I said before, Bush is taking care of business.
posted on May 8, 2003 06:37:20 PM new
Social Security is considered to be prior tax deferred income and is taxable at your current bracket, however it is taxed only if your total earnings are above a certain threshold depending on marital status and total number of dependents. The party of majority has not proposed eliminating the tax on SS payments which I would support.
You also assume to know my party affiliation of which I have none currently.
posted on May 8, 2003 06:58:48 PM new
No attacks aside from a few hate crimes aimed at Americans of Middle Eastern and Indian Ancestry just a murder or two, or three.
"You said, "Had we sent the fuel and food as agreed North Korea would not have built nukes." Wow, that statement is so foolish, it's scary......" I think not. This administration sees fit to vacate existing treaties. Real Class....low class.
You said, "The tax cut is a shell game redistributing wealth from the poor to the wealthy it only shifts the tax burden it does not eliminate it." The poor don't pay federal income taxes! Heck, I hardly pay any federal income taxes! Class warfare is un-American.
Bull, this country thrives on class warfare, racial hatred and religious intolerance. BTW if your not paying enough tax maybe it's time to get a job.
"You complained that unemployment was at 6%. How high would unemployment be if Bush allowed more terrorist attacks, did not give us tax cuts, and then signed the Kyoto treaty?"
"As I said before, Bush is taking care of business."
Bush is looking out for Bush, Cheney and the ruling class. If you believe that's TCB I have a bridge you may be interested in.
posted on May 8, 2003 09:45:12 PM new
Dave, class warfare is un-American. No country in the world has the class mobility of the US. Even working class people can accumulate wealth. There's a reason why the capitalist US is the richest country in the history of the world, while socialist countries stagnate.
I'm a college dropout and I don't make a lot of dough. But I own my own home, I'm my own boss, I work just part-time, and I'm still getting ahead. If I didn't lose my life savings in the stock market (before Bush was elected), I would be living a life of leisure at 34. The American dream is working for me and I'm very grateful.
Heck, there's an ex-Iraqi Republican Guard soldier from the 1990 Gulf War who immigrated to Sacramento, CA in 1992 and now he has a thriving auto repair business with 2 shops. He's making some good money. Where else could that happen but in America? Of course, he could've never achieved that if the left had a chance to convince him that he was a victim. Or got him dependent on government handouts. Instead of resenting rich people, he's becoming one.
We have a really good thing here in the U.S. and I'd hate to see liberals/leftists screw it up. They mean well, but they lack common sense and they do more much more harm than good.
posted on May 8, 2003 10:11:11 PM new
"Heck, there's an ex-Iraqi Republican Guard soldier from the 1990 Gulf War who immigrated to Sacramento, CA in 1992 and now he has a thriving auto repair business with 2 shops. He's making some good money. Where else could that happen but in America?"
"No country in the world has the class mobility of the US."???
It could happen in Australia and even France and Germany.
posted on May 8, 2003 11:06:34 PM new
You mistake a modest income for wealth. You didn't lose your life savings in the stock market. It was stolen by a system designed to pick your pockets and abeted by blind government regulators. The deck was stacked by the time you realized what had happened the house of cards had fallen. You were lied to by the Enrons, Arthur Andersons, and MCI's of the world. It was facilitated by the MSNBC's, Merrils, and Shearsons (who just paid a small fine to the SEC, chump change really) To date no principal player of this mass fraud has been convicted, jailed or made to pay resitution to millions of Americans who were duped.
This was the biggest scam since Bush (Neal) and his cronies looted the savings and loans, kept the money and hung the tab on the taxpayers (you and me).
One thing I've learned...there's no free lunch. The leaders of this country believe in some sort of trickle down theory. I believe only one thing trickles down.
No matter how many dollars we acquire we will never be on the "A" list so to speak.
Don't feel like the lone ranger, I'd have been right there on easy street with you. Me and the millions of other MCI share holders but then again there's no free lunch.
posted on May 9, 2003 02:43:35 AM new
Liberal wasn't a dirty word years ago but many to they left have made it a joke.
Seems today's Liberals live on conspiracy theories, half lies and out and out lies. They promote the socialist and communist view and try pushing it down everyone, they think, will listens throat.
They are made up of discontent losers, the unemployed, welfare handout seekers, and bloated self promoting losers. People that have a hard time making a living because they are lazy or stupid.
Sound a little harsh? Well, it is.
They have become a "give me, give me" group of ungrateful self righteous hypocrites and blowhards.
On a brighter note. I'm off to Myrtle Beach for bike week. Being a Capitalist in this great country, I can do that.
May the Gods Bless America, Bless President Bush and each and every one of you. Especially the liberals. cause lord knows they need it.
posted on May 9, 2003 04:18:29 AM new
Bravo DB, well said.
I notice that Colin didn’t address any of you specific, ‘even if little known of’ , examples.
colin
“They are made up of discontent losers, the unemployed, welfare handout seekers, and bloated self promoting losers.”
“discontent losers” well, one could call them that, but there are many well to do people beyond your station that are on the left.
“the unemployed” not always
“welfare handout seekers” often so
“bloated self promoting losers.” Not sure where your going with this one col’ but I can see where the “self righteous” bit comes into play.
The word ‘losers’ has come more into ‘flavour’, it’s a term which seems to comfortably roll off the tongues of ‘high powered’ insurance salesmen and people that represented the hierarchy of some of the companies like the aforementioned.
And like colin those people are usually on the right.
You, and others on the far right may well say God bless America colin, and may your god do so,
but your sentiments are certainly far from humanitarian expressions of concern for your fellow patriot.
You are not twice a patriot if you take twice a share, although as we know you just ‘may’ acquire a further voice or vote or two.
Does patriot mean taking care of all type of ‘loser‘ patriots or does it mean only taking care of your own ass.
Did those represented by the ‘left’ fight and die for societies IMPROVEMENTS or those represented by the ‘right’ ?????????
And the ‘right’ has the nerve to try and railroad the term ‘patriot’.
