posted on June 12, 2003 08:58:48 AM new
I caught Guy Pearce, one of my favorite actors, on The Daily Show a few days back and on Leno last night. Both times, he said something that seemed strange to me.
He asserted that there were more tigers in Texas than remained in the wild in the rest of the world. I Googled around and from what I found, Pearce was overstating - but he wasn't far off.
It's actually a pretty sad situation. Tigers are disappearing from the wild because they're losing their habitat. Meanwhile, American collectors and roadside zoos are breeding them irresponsibly and not taking very good care of them. They're purposefully introducing genetic flaws into the tiger population to produce "fancy" colors, like pink and albino tigers, creating animals that are really unfit to survive in the wild anyway.
It just seems so bizarre to me.
------------------- We do not see things as they are. We see them as we are.
------------The Talmud
posted on June 12, 2003 10:58:15 AM new
It's really sad...far as I'm concerned we need more tigers, lions, wolves, grizzly bears, rattlesnakes, scorpions, centipedes and black widow spiders, although you won't find a lot of sympathy on this board for that opinion. Many folks feel that the more "dangerous" critters belong behind bars where they won't hurt anybody. It goes back to the attitude that if a species has no commercial or recreational value, it isn't worth protecting.
edited to add...in the tigers' case, their habitat has been seriously eroded by the nearly logarithmic human population increases in their home countries. There just isn't room for them...
___________________________________
What luck for the leaders that men do not think. - Adolph Hitler
[ edited by profe51 on Jun 12, 2003 11:00 AM ]
I'm with you! My son, a couple of years ago, had to write a report on elephants for school. I helped him to do the research and what we found was horrifying - and all in the name of Ivory. So, when you are showing off your Ivory jewelry or intricately carved Ivory statue, remember an elephant's (or rhino's) life was sacrificed.
Cheryl
My religion is simple, my religion is kindness.
--Dalai Llama
posted on June 12, 2003 12:00:32 PM new
I have a real moral dilemma with ivory. Not the material itself - I won't use it. At all. I don't use fossilized ivory reclaimed from piano keys, old ivory artifacts or anything. For a long time, I wouldn't use any ivory replica either because I just don't like the idea of ivory. (Note: I'm not passing judgement on other people who feel it's OK to use old ivory. I just don't care to myself - I feel the same way about coral.)
Now they've got this substance called Tagua nut, produced in the Amazon and commonly called "vegetable ivory." It's lovely, very hard and durable, and has been instrumental in helping local residents support themselves without hacking down the rain forest. It appeals to me in a way that ivory doesn't. I almost broke down and bought a gorgeous jaguar focal bead for myself at the last jewelry show I attended, but I feel as if I'd have to go around explaining to everyone that admired it that it's not real ivory. Plus it was $125.
The other thing that struck me as odd in the Guy Pearce interview was that they were making a movie about tigers in Cambodia - and they had to bring their own. Apparently two tigers gave birth during the shoot, so they had to explain to Cambodian customs officals why they brought in 29 tigers and left with 31.
profe51 I'm with you on all those critters. But I will not take up for the Florida state bird - the great-a big-a cockaroach.
-------------------
We do not see things as they are. We see them as we are.
------------The Talmud
[ edited by msincognito on Jun 12, 2003 12:03 PM ]
posted on June 12, 2003 12:34:09 PM newprofe51 I'm with you on all those critters. But I will not take up for the Florida state bird - the great-a big-a cockaroach.
I guess Fla. needs more chickens. When we get too many roaches showing up on the patio--they live under the mulch in the flower beds--I just let a few hens out of the coop, they make a beeline for the flowerbeds because they know where the tasy critters are..chickens will fight over cucarachas.It's really entertaining They make a mess, but a little raking puts everything right again.
I have some old ivory, mostly stuff that's family heirlooms like the handles on 19th c. pistols, coat buttons and great-nana's brooches, but I won't buy any now for fear of accidentally buying modern ivory. I've been told that some of the fossil ivory is modern ivory that has been aged to appear old. I did read somewhere of an ivory enterprise that had been started in Africa on an elephant preserve, using tusks from culled and naturally dead elephants, the $$ was being used to extend and manage the preserve. Trouble is, unless you're buying from the source, how do you really know? The provenance of stuff like that is so easy to fake. I'm afraid that the only solution for elephants may be like the American Bison, which is now just a farm animal really, like range cattle. The elephants may have to be farmed and managed in order to survive...I'm not saying I like it.....
___________________________________
What luck for the leaders that men do not think. - Adolph Hitler
posted on June 12, 2003 01:03:58 PM new
I have a special love for animals, no matter how ferocious they may be. This story of the looted Baghdad zoo is especially sad.
~
Mandor, a 20-year-old Siberian tiger and the personal property of Saddam Hussein's
eldest son Uday, was slumped against the green bars of his cage, his beautifully-marked coat hanging off his bones.
He looked up briefly as the vet approached, only to hang his head again when he realised
his keeper was empty-handed.
Next door, Sudqa, a nine-year-old lioness, got to her feet and let out a low moan. The remnants
of her last meal lay in the corner, a white bone chewed over and over.
Hussein said in all there were seven lions and two tigers, who each consume
some five kilograms of meat a day.
"Five kilograms of meat would cost me 80,000 dinars ($30)," said Hussein. "
And there are nine animals. I have nothing like this kind of money."
He said the animals were last fed properly 10 days ago, just before U.S. forces entered Baghdad.
Spent casings of shells and bullets outside the zoo and a burnt-out Iraqi armoured personnel carrier
are proof of the invasion.
The Americans quickly swept through the west of the city, said Hussein, leaving the area in the
hands of looters, who grabbed chimpanzees, Vervet monkeys, Pekinese dogs, love birds and cockatoos.
Off the main road, one of the zoo's camels grazes on a patch of scrub.
"The bears have gone too, I don't know if they took them or just let them go," said Hussein, who said
he was also concerned for the well-being of Uday's even bigger collection of lions and tigers at his
Baghdad residence.
With no U.S. presence in the park, would-be looters are on the prowl. One group was trying to
uproot a large generator next to the model railway, ignoring Hussein's cries of disgust.
"There is no government, no security, no organisation," Hussein said.
"We are alone here and without help our animals will die."
posted on June 12, 2003 03:38:23 PM new
OMG how sad. Just what did this administration think was going to happen? Did they think bombing the crap out of a country whose citizens had little to begin with was going to make things better for them? "The well laid plans. . ." I guess our troops are obeying their orders to guard them there oil fields and to h*ll with everything else including precious art stolen from museums. This whole thing just makes me so d*mn mad. I can see how we made their lives better (said with a whole lot of sarcasm).
Cheryl
My religion is simple, my religion is kindness.
--Dalai Llama
posted on June 12, 2003 03:45:40 PM new
I'm all for animal preservation. I think we do need more grizzlies, bald eagles, condors, sharks, etc. I think we need less stupid people which is why I find it too bad when you hear about a shark (or bear or what have you) that has to be destroyed after a human does something stupid around it or to it.
I felt very little remorse for the people in Florida a few years ago that were warned about shark attacks and still chose to swim there. If they didn't know, that's one thing
posted on June 12, 2003 04:06:35 PM new
I think we need more mosquitos. I'm going to dig a big hole in my backyard and fill it with water to help preserve these little critters
posted on June 12, 2003 04:29:27 PM newCBF Those people were in Florida. They were not of Florida.
------------------- We do not see things as they are. We see them as we are.
------------The Talmud
posted on June 12, 2003 05:31:13 PM new
One good point is that there is a place for them in Texas
But still nothing beats seeing a wild animal loose in its native territory.
Several years ago I had the fortune of sighting a Cougar (Mountain Lion/Puma), while in South Texas. It was an incredable sight seeing it glide across the ground. To bad I didn't have a camera with me.
[ edited by bear1949 on Jun 12, 2003 05:35 PM ]
posted on June 12, 2003 06:26:19 PM newbear, The habitat destruction profe51 spoke of is threatening the Texas cougar as well as the Florida panther, which is almost certain to be extinct within the next 20 years or so. There are probably no more than 50 Florida panthers left, and many of the males exhibit genetic malformaties that make it likely they will be able to reproduce.
Cougars are doing a little better (numbers seem to be on the increase in the western states where they range) but the US Fish and Wildlife Service estimates that cougars have lost more than 2/3 of their habitat. As a result, they're becoming more of a threat to humans and the number of cougars killed by people is on the increase.
They tried introducing some Texas cougars into the Florida panther population because the two species are very close genetically and can inter-breed. But the last I heard, that experiment was mostly considered a failure. Pretty soon, the only place you'll see a Florida panther is on a license plate.
helenjw Your story is made even sadder by the fact that these animals probably stand no chance of surviving outside of captivity now - which means either someone takes them in, or they die.
We visited the Miami Metrozoo a few weeks ago and spent almost an hour watching the zoo's three tigers play and splash. It was an awesome sight but the docent told us that there was little likelihood that those animals could survive in the wild, either - I believe he said all three were bred in captivity, and they've all become too large to have the speed they need to successfully bring down enough game to sustain them.
Ah well. If this thread is becoming too depressing .... we can all just go back to the top and think of Guy Pearce instead of tigers. Guy Pearce. Yum.
-------------------
We do not see things as they are. We see them as we are.
------------The Talmud
[ edited by msincognito on Jun 12, 2003 06:31 PM ]
posted on June 12, 2003 07:26:55 PM newYou can find all those "dangerous" critters you mentioned thriving in Washington, D.C., and some of them do belong behind bars.
I understand there's a fairly large population of them on Wall Street too..
There is a cougar who lives down in the creek canyon on our place. She took up residence about 5 years ago and had cubs shortly after. I had the opportunity to see her with them drinking from the creek. She hasn't had any babies since to my knowledge. I peppered her once with the 12 guage shortly after she took up residence and decided to ignore the lamb's pasture fence, she has not challenged us on the home place since, although she will take one or two lambs from the free grazing land this season I expect. She took two last year. The drought is scheduled to continue, for a while that drives the deer and javelina closer to the creek where they are easy pickins for her, but once they figure out that she's around they will move on. At that point she will most likely need to take a lamb. We try to think of ourselves as part of this land rather than in control of it, so I guess that's part of the overhead.
___________________________________
What luck for the leaders that men do not think. - Adolph Hitler
I guess Fla. needs more chickens. When we get too many roaches showing up on the patio--they live under the mulch in the flower beds--I just let a few hens out of the coop, they make a beeline for the flowerbeds because they know where the tasy critters are..chickens will fight over cucarachas.It's really entertaining