Twelvepole
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posted on July 20, 2003 07:19:21 PM new
When will this bane upon society be completely outlawed?
The sooner the better in my book.
I have already informed my smokers that I will no longer provide health insurance for them unless they quit.
That or they pay for the premiums... or they are freed up for new opportunities elsewhere...
Do you smokers realize how awful you smell? How much damage you do to yourself and especially others around you?
This vice needs to be outlawed as soon as possible...
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kraftdinner
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posted on July 20, 2003 07:24:07 PM new
I agree Twelve. I also think the same could be said for drinkers. Do it on your own property but not in public places.
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Twelvepole
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posted on July 20, 2003 07:27:45 PM new
The problem with smoking, even in your own home is that the stench gets in your clothes and follows you where ever you go...
AIN'T LIFE GRAND... 
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dadofstickboy
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posted on July 20, 2003 08:08:41 PM new
I've been near some pretty foul smelling people who don't smoke.
Maybe we should outlaw leaving your house without taking a shower!
Then we should outlaw cheap perfume & cologne.
The most disgusting thing there is chewing gum stuck all over the streets, when are we going to outlaw chewing gum? Soon I hope.
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kraftdinner
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posted on July 20, 2003 08:09:51 PM new
That's true, but there are also people out there with bad breath and b.o. that you just have to put up with. It would be nice if you were allowed to spray some people with deodorizer or bleach without being arrested.
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Twelvepole
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posted on July 20, 2003 09:09:43 PM new
I never heard of anyone dieing from second hand BO...
Hygiene is another matter... but if you want feel free to start your own thread there Dadofstickboy...
I would rather smell some nice cologne or perfume than stale smoke.
AIN'T LIFE GRAND...
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gravid
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posted on July 20, 2003 09:29:05 PM new
Even though I am extremely bothered by smoke as an asthmatic and am drastically restricted where I can go and what businesses I can use because of smoke still .... I want to remind you that smoking for many people is a strong physical addiction even though it is not a euphoric, and these people were suckered into becoming addicted with misrepresentations by both the companies and the government over a long period of years. They gave free cigarettes to a whole generation of WWII soldiers and hooked them.
There is just no responsibility for the blood on their hands and the major disrupsion of so many peoples lives.
Spokespersons for the Tobacco Institute can't even last as long as a Presidential press secretary. They burn out in about 6 months.
Have a little compassion for those that got suckered into this.
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kraftdinner
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posted on July 20, 2003 09:48:21 PM new
You won't die from b.o., but close to it!
I think the second-hand-smoke-illness-thing is a bit over-rated though. The real culprit is polution from every day living. Claiming second hand smoke is responsible for so many illness's just shifts the focus away from reality.
I agree gravid. 
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profe51
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posted on July 20, 2003 10:17:49 PM new
2 packs of camels a day for 20 years. Then I just quit, because the new wife got pregnant with our son and the girls convinced me I finally had a compelling reason to quit. I do use snuff on horseback and when fishing or hunting, but not day to day like with the cigarettes. I still enjoy a nice Cuban heater on the porch once in a while. Tobacco isn't good for you. But like my doctor once told me "worrying about it all the time is as bad for you as smoking, so either quit or quit worrying, if you're afraid of cancer, by the time it shows up on your chest xray you're a dead man anyway". Smoky places bother me some now, I'll notice my chest getting tight, that's when I leave. I do think all this fervor has gotten a bit out of hand. My wife asks people to smoke outside, and frankly, I kind of like it like that. I don't know about all the laws though, kind of rubs the wrong way....
___________________________________
What luck for the leaders that men do not think. - Adolph Hitler
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austbounty
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posted on July 20, 2003 11:00:14 PM new
It’s probably the biggest contributor to poor health, and for those more interested in money than lives, it’s probably the single biggest cost to the public health system too.
Or governments can’t see past the current term and the next election and so they keep cropping the short term $.
Even though I’m stupid enough to smoke, I for one would vote to ban it, and I’d bet most would, regardless of how much tobacco companies spent on campaigning for 'individual rights'.
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stusi
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posted on July 21, 2003 05:38:40 AM new
Comedian Steve Martin put it best. When asked by another person in a restaurant if he minded if they smoke, Martin replied, "Do you mind if I fart?"
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mlecher
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posted on July 21, 2003 07:22:51 AM new
The ban in NY goes into effect in a couple of days...
I hear the whining by the bars and resturants on how the ban is going to drive them out of business. Excuse me, if your business is dependent on people smoking, then you have been marketing to the wrong clientel! People normally go to bars to drink and to resturants to eat, not to blow toxic chemicals towards everyone around them.
I smoked for 20 years (Yeah, nothing worse than a reformed sinner) and after having quit for a few weeks, I went to a resturant...
I can not believe how DISGUSTING an individual I must have been. I could smell the smoke no matter where I sat in the NON-SMOKING AREA! Totally ruined my dinner. And to see the smokers in all their glory, flicking their ashes on the floor, putting their butts in their empty drink glasses or even worse, putting them in their uneaten food. What pigs we smokers are... And you go into bars an see them even drop their butts on the floor and grind them into the carpet.
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davebraun
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posted on July 21, 2003 08:41:33 AM new
Some years ago I was in my Market Street office when an earthquake hit. I ran down four flights of stairs and onto the street as the quake subsided. Five minutes later I had to climb the stairs to get back into my office to secure the premises. I could barely make it up the stairs, I quit smoking that day.
I really don't care if others smoke that's there business. If they pollute the air I breath it's my business.
I avoid getting in cars that belong to smokers, the homes of smokers, dinner with smokers (they stink), kissing a smoker, hotel rooms that have had smokers etc. Smoking in restaurants was prohibited some years ago and amazingly the restaurants are still in business here in California and seem to be thriving. The funniest thing is at the Oakland Colliseum smokers crowd around a little TV set at the back of the stadium in order to smoke as smoking is banned in the rest of the facility (why bother).
What people do in their own home is their own business.
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Fenix03
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posted on July 21, 2003 08:43:53 AM new
California has had a smoking ban for quite awhile now and it is annoying! I have no problem with no smoking in restaurants but I find myself craving a cigarrette whenever I am in a bar - apparently I am not the only one since most bars have found a way to accommodate their smokers in outdoor areas. What truly annoys me is when a non smoker enters this area and asks someone to put out their cigarrette.
Stop - you may be able to ban smoking in your workplace but I would check with a lawyer about the legalities of your new edict - you could find yourself on the wrong end of a lawsuit.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
If it's really Common Sense, why do so few people actually have it?
[ edited by Fenix03 on Jul 21, 2003 08:52 AM ]
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CBlev65252
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posted on July 21, 2003 10:15:06 AM new
FENIX03
I can relate to your bar story. The smokers here in Cleveland just about paid for the new baseball stadium with a SIN tax. The sh** of it all is you aren't allowed to smoke anywhere except outside behind a yellow line (smoke must not like to travel beyond yellow lines } However, you are allowed to get obnoxiously drunk so as to disturb everyone around you. I would rather sit next to a smoker outside than an obnoxiously drunk sports fan. At least I know that when that smoker gets in his or her car after the game, my life is not endangered. I even had a man get so drunk sitting behind me that he threw up. The smell of cigarette smoke would have been most welcomed over that!
Cheryl
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Helenjw
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posted on July 21, 2003 10:26:57 AM new
smoke must not like to travel beyond yellow lines
My neighborhood made the world news recently when an effort was made to ban smoking in HOUSES -- using the theory that smoke travels from house to house or from apartment to apartment. After the county legislators became the laughing stock of the world, that smoking ban was tabled.
Helen
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CBlev65252
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posted on July 21, 2003 10:31:32 AM new
Helen
If you could only hear me laughing at that one!!!
Cheryl
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Helenjw
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posted on July 21, 2003 10:48:24 AM new
LOL!
It really happened in Montgomery County, Maryland.
Helen
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Helenjw
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posted on July 21, 2003 10:56:23 AM new
On November 20, 2001, Maryland's Montgomery County Council passed a measure whereby smokers whose neighbors are offended by the odor of cigarette smoke wafting from their homes would be fined up to $750. After the measure passed, County Executive Douglas Duncan promised to sign the bill giving Montgomery County one of the most restrictive anti-smoking measures in the nation. Council member Isaiah Leggett explained the proposed measure saying, "This does not say that you cannot smoke in your house; what it does say is that your smoke cannot cross property lines."
Less than a year ago, the Montgomery County Council, by a 5 to 4 vote, approved the outdoor smoking ban adopted by its nearby neighbor the Village of Friendship Heights, Maryland. That ban prohibited smoking on or in sidewalks, lawns, parks, buildings or other areas owned by the Village. First offenses would be subject to a warning, and subsequent offenses subject to a $100 fine. Dr. Alfred Muller, the Mayor of the Village, justified the adoption of the ban saying there are residents who have health problems, such as asthma and emphysema, plus "we are trying to change the social norm concerning tobacco use."
Last March a judge found the Village of Friendship Heights' health claims ridiculous and threw out its outdoor smoking ban. Montgomery County Executive Douglas Duncan didn't wait for the courts. After he promised to sign the anti-smoking bill, six days later he reversed course and vetoed it. Mr. Duncan's decision had nothing to do with coming to his senses over the issue. It was the massive national ridicule heaped upon Montgomery County officials over their heavy-handed tactics.
The health arguments offered about the harmful effects of tobacco smoke crossing property lines are but so much bunk. Yes, there are some who have emphysema, asthma or allergies and are annoyed by cigarette smoke. These people may also be annoyed by other air borne products such as hair spray, after-shave lotions, perfumes, clothing softeners, fire place smoke, cooking odors and deodorants. Should they be able to make a complaint and have the police knock on their neighbor's door and tell them to cease and desist. Should we change airport announcements that say, "In the interest of a healthy indoor air quality, smoking is not permitted in public areas."? Should a more health inclusive announcement say, "In the interest of a healthy indoor air quality, passengers are not permitted to smoke, wear perfumes, hair sprays, deodorants, after-shave lotion or wear clothing that's been rinsed in fabric softeners."? Or should we just have odor and odor-free seating sections on airplanes?
Walter E. Williams
George Mason University
LOL!
[ edited by Helenjw on Jul 21, 2003 11:04 AM ]
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CBlev65252
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posted on July 21, 2003 11:07:08 AM new
healthy indoor air quality, passengers are not permitted to smoke, wear perfumes, hair sprays, deodorants,
Gotta love the deodorant one. Now that would definately do something for the indoor air quality, but I don't know about it making for healthy indoor air quality. LOL!!!
Cheryl
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bear1949
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posted on July 21, 2003 11:14:25 AM new
Prof, where did you find papers large enough to roll a whole camel?
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dadofstickboy
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posted on July 21, 2003 11:17:46 AM new
Good Evening may I help you?
I'd like a table for two.
Will that be the B.O. section or non B.O.?
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Twelvepole
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posted on July 21, 2003 11:23:36 AM new
What people do in their own home is their own business.
I could go along with that except for the smell of their clothes...
Also I see some of our pro national health care folks are smokers... as long as smoking is allowed I will never be in favor of nationalized health care.
Always love the comparisons with drinking... which drunk driving is already heavly penalized... I also don't get ill standing next to someone drinking. Or have a chance of getting liver cancer.
I am betting that within 10 years smoking will be very taboo...
Then maybe we can entertain the thought of national health care.
AIN'T LIFE GRAND...
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Fenix03
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posted on July 21, 2003 12:42:54 PM new
Helen - I thought you were going to say you were in West Hollywood where that same concept was batted around for a couple months until as in the case you quoted, it was laughed out of consideration.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
If it's really Common Sense, why do so few people actually have it?
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Helenjw
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posted on July 21, 2003 01:20:51 PM new
Maybe West Hollywood was trying to share the "limelight". The Montgomery County story was reported by Moscow Times
Helen
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kraftdinner
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posted on July 21, 2003 01:34:10 PM new
... Moscow Times...
The comparison to drinking wasn't about the health issue but more of where you should be allowed to drink & smoke Twelve. I agree, they're different.
P.S. Do your employees think you're a crab Twelve?
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Twelvepole
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posted on July 21, 2003 04:20:20 PM new
I don't think so, I treat them very well for the most part... the smoking thing has been on my mind for sometime and actually only applies to two people out of 10...
At least I haven't heard any complaints about the long lunches we take twice a month 
AIN'T LIFE GRAND...
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kraftdinner
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posted on July 21, 2003 05:02:19 PM new
So I've been right all along - you're not as bad as you pretend! Don't worry Twelve, your secret's safe with me, that's for sure!!
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davebraun
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posted on July 21, 2003 06:19:01 PM new
Tobacco subsidies should be removed and the farmers no longer supported by tax dollars for growing tobacco. That would free up the funds for medical care for the victims of tobacco. Regarding healthcare being tied to this issue, at the time healthcare is enacted which is inevitable although it may not happen for some years smokers illnesses can be classified as a pre existing condition and covered by a fund established by the tobacco companies with a different copayment level.
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gravid
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posted on July 21, 2003 06:23:42 PM new
I live in an upstairs condo. When people who smoke live downstairs we can't have our windows open in the summer. At times we could actually see a stream of smoke rolling in over the window sill because it comes up the side of the building very smoothly when there is a faint breeze blowing.
If they were making any other stink we'd have support to stop it. But serving at the alter of their addiction can't be challenged.
The truth is some of these people will put their need to smoke before their family or jobs even smoking when they have a child with respiratory problems.
How can we respect that?
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