posted on July 29, 2003 04:31:15 AM new
If they keep doing this how long before the Iraqis snatch US soldiers to have something to trade? Oh right - Bring it on.
Col. David Hogg, commander of the 2nd Brigade of the 4th Infantry Division, said tougher methods are being used to gather the intelligence. On Wednesday night, he said, his troops picked up the wife and daughter of an Iraqi lieutenant general. They left a note: “If you want your family released, turn yourself in.” Such tactics are justified, he said, because, “It’s an intelligence operation with detainees, and these people have info.” They would have been released in due course, he added later.
The tactic worked. On Friday, Hogg said, the lieutenant general appeared at the front gate of the U.S. base and surrendered.
posted on July 29, 2003 04:59:27 AM new
It would be just like this Administration to use tactics so low that they sit below gutter level. There is no, repeat NO, justified reason for the kidnapping of a child and her mother. And that's exactly what it is: Kidnapping for ransom. It goes to prove that this administration will stop at nothing to achieve its goals.
You who are on the right accuse me of being un-American. I think you have it backwards. This tactic is un-American. It is against everything this country stands for and those of us who still adhere to the American values instilled in us as children should not stand for it another minute!
Cheryl
Power to the people. Power to the people, right on. - John Lennon
posted on July 29, 2003 05:04:54 AM new
coming from someone who has NEVER experienced the military... this is WAR, not play nice time. I for one am all for it and support our troops.
posted on July 29, 2003 05:12:21 AM new
And just what will be your reaction when the same is done to us? Huh? Oooh, bad Iraquies. Kill them, kill them all. According to Bush, the war is over. So, what WAR are you talking about? There is no excuse for kidnapping a child and her mother. None, zero, nada. They are civilians caught up in the middle of something that is not their doing. Nothing, repeat NOTHING, you say will change how I (and I'm sure millions of others) feel about this one.
Well, we're just looking better and better to the rest of the planet aren't we?
Like I've said before, twelvepole, you have the right to your opinion and I do listen to it. I may not like it, but I listen to it. I also have the right to disagree with it and voice my opinion. I do not hold your opinions against you. You can't help yourself.
Cheryl
Power to the people. Power to the people, right on. - John Lennon
posted on July 29, 2003 05:27:28 AM new
I look at your new sig and all I can think is "Thank you Mark David Chapman"
You're right Cheryl you are entitled to your opinions, but at least some of us have real life experiences to draw upon...
But after all these are Opinions and yours is just as valuable as mine, and it is fun to see how easily support for the troops evaporates when the gloves are taken off...
AIN'T LIFE GRAND...
[ edited by Twelvepole on Jul 29, 2003 05:31 AM ]
posted on July 29, 2003 07:55:01 AM new
Twelvepole
I won't comment on your Mark David Chapman remark. . .
I never said that I don't support our troops. I do. I don't support their leader. Our troops have no choice but to be where they are and to do what they must do. They are all someone's child, someone's father, someone's husband and it does hurt a great many people when you hear of a soldier being killed. Just because I do not support the tactics of some of our leaders, does not mean I think our troops are wrong or that I don't support them. I think you may have trouble believing you can not support the leaders but at the same time support the troops. Believe it - it is possible.
You are just too fun to argue points with! It's good that not everyone is of the same opinion. That's part of what makes this a great country. We are free to argue no matter what the argument may be about. What frightens me is that I have agreed with you from time-to-time rare as that might be.
Cheryl
Power to the people. Power to the people, right on. - John Lennon
posted on July 29, 2003 07:56:15 AM new
Well since they are adapting every other Nazi tactic I guess the next logical action will be to round up a hundred or so civilians from the area each time an American soldier is killed in an ambush and publicly execute them. I'm sure twelvepile and any number of others will have no problem with that if it works.....
They'll just have to understand it's for the good of the greater number in the ultimate liberation of Iraq. Nothing personal....
2. The following acts are and shall remain prohibited at any time and in any place whatsoever, whether committed by civilian or by military agents: (a) violence to the life, health, or physical or mental well-being of persons, in particular: (i) murder; (ii) torture of all kinds, whether physical or mental; (iii) corporal punishment; and (iv) mutilation;
(b) outrages upon personal dignity, in particular humiliating and degrading treatment, enforced prostitution and any form or indecent assault; (c) the taking of hostages; (d) collective punishments; and (e) threats to commit any of the foregoing acts.
posted on July 29, 2003 11:18:04 AM new
The American administration has not signed the protocols that enforce the Universal Declaration on Human Rights, a convention to which no right-minded government could possibly object.
It continues to deny POW status (and hence rights under the Geneva Convention) to the "illegal combatants" in Guantanamo Bay.
Bush has already pre-judged the issue by describing them as "bad people".
It is fundamental to the rule of law that everybody should be considered "innocent until proven guilty".
Don't misunderstand me, I shall have no sympathy with those shown to be guilty. But there is a proper procedure to be followed first, or we sanction the very injustices that we are supposed to be fighting against.
Cheryl
Power to the people. Power to the people, right on. - John Lennon
posted on July 29, 2003 01:26:38 PM new
When you bypass those legal procedures by setting yourself up as a supreme judge the nobody is really secure from your whim.
That is where we are right now because the President can declare a person - even a citizen - outside the judicial system.
It is very similar to how Hitler set the SS against all the other brown shirts when their excesses threatened his hold on his power.
After executing as many as perhaps a thousand of them he said:
"If anyone reproaches me and asks why I did not resort to the regular courts of justice, then all I can say is this: In this hour I was responsible for the fate of the German people, and thereby I became the supreme judge of the German people."
"It was no secret that this time the revolution would have to be bloody; when we spoke of it we called it 'The Night of the Long Knives.' Everyone must know for all future time that if he raises his hand to strike the State, then certain death is his lot."
Nobody called him on it and from that day forewards no German was safe in his life or home. And few could imagine they would ever be the object of the states violence. After all they were doing it to protect the comman man - right?
Yet in the end how many common men died?
