gravid
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posted on September 9, 2003 08:12:32 AM new
http://www.msnbc.com/news/963728.asp?0cv=CB20
Between the delays and tiny seats I have not flown for 6 years even though I'd rather fly than drive past about about 300 miles.
Now they are going to screen travelers so that about 8% will be pulled aside and hassled. And a full 1 or 2% will simply be denied boarding and possibly arrested on the spot.
How many customers will ever come back to fly if they miss their vacation because they had the same or similar name to some criminal? Or even sillier because their CREDIT REPORT showed something out of the ordinary? Will you be red flagged because you have never flown before? How suspicious! Or perhaps because you were on a list of Democrates!
Since all the data is secret there is not even any way you can make sure your information is accurate.
What incentive is there to PAY to be treated like a criminal by a bunch of goons who have no respect for you?
Can anyone really tell me with a straight face that 1 or 2% of the people trying to get on an airplane are a danger to the other passengers?
How long before you have to pass a similar test to get a driver's license?
[ edited by gravid on Sep 9, 2003 08:14 AM ]
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Linda_K
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posted on September 9, 2003 10:07:54 AM new
I do agree that what is happening in the airline industry is discouraging people to travel and that it is becoming more and more of a hassle. And the more business they lose from continuing these 'tactics' the more they will go to our government with their hands out for more 'bail-out' money.
BUT where I believe we are erroring is in checking out grandma's etc. I think we should stick with only screening those from the known terrorist nations that are currently on our 'watch' list. That would eliminate all the hassle that everyone else has to go though.
I know this is not PC correct nor an accepted way of dealing with it to many. Yes, it would 'profile' one group of people. These are the times we live in.
Or if the majority feel that is just not right, then we are going to continue the way it's being done and not complain about the price we have to pay for either bailing out the airlines, or for all to endure the screening process equally.
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Fenix03
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posted on September 9, 2003 10:25:01 AM new
After reading the guidlines I am canceling plans to flyu within the US this year. As a person who travels alone, rarely checks luggage, and usually purchases my tickets online or at the airport I'm higher on the list of those likely to be hassled and with my mouth... likely to be arrested  . These regulations are killing the airlines. When flying to Mexico I will no longer fly out of San Diego. It's easier just to go across the border and fly out of Tijuana.
My favorite issue right now is Ridge telling European airlines that they must release passenger info - violating the privacy laws of the companies home home countries - or be subjected to fines of up to $5000 per passenger.
Now there is a tourism boost if ever I heard one. Just what every eupoean travel wants - our FBI running a security check on them.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
Men Are Like Grapes. If You Stomp on Them and Keep Them in the Dark Long Enough, They Might Turn Into Something That You Would Take to Dinner
[ edited by Fenix03 on Sep 9, 2003 10:28 AM ]
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kraftdinner
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posted on September 9, 2003 10:57:05 AM new
What I'd like to know, is what are they (the airports) doing with all the confiscated pocket knives and nail clippers? What a bunch of theives!!
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Fenix03
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posted on September 9, 2003 11:47:19 AM new
Krafty - they are selling them on ebay. Seriously.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
Men Are Like Grapes. If You Stomp on Them and Keep Them in the Dark Long Enough, They Might Turn Into Something That You Would Take to Dinner
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kraftdinner
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posted on September 9, 2003 11:55:17 AM new
Are you joking fenix? So, they're sold on eBay, to people that could possibly use them as weapons, possibly on airplanes, and this is supposed to be security?? 
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profe51
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posted on September 9, 2003 01:33:03 PM new
recycling is a good thing....
___________________________________
I want to have Ann Coulter's babies
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profe51
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posted on September 9, 2003 01:33:23 PM new
oops
[ edited by profe51 on Sep 10, 2003 05:14 AM ]
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replaymedia
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posted on September 9, 2003 02:08:50 PM new
It stinks, but it's only going to get worse. If the government CAN track something, they WILL track something.
Wait till the IRS gets something like that. They'll be tracking eBay sales and everything else.
I wonder how long we'll have cash money before it is COMPLETELY done away with for easily tracable digital money? Probably not as far off as you might think.
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Replay Media
Games of all kinds!
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gravid
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posted on September 9, 2003 02:17:37 PM new
As long as politicians take bribes there will be cash. They don't want chickens.........
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Fenix03
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posted on September 9, 2003 02:51:42 PM new
Krafty - yes, I am serious : ) I think it's hilarious. BTW- If the buyer tried to take them on a plane they would only be confiscated ...again ...and sold ....again...
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
Men Are Like Grapes. If You Stomp on Them and Keep Them in the Dark Long Enough, They Might Turn Into Something That You Would Take to Dinner
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davebraun
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posted on September 9, 2003 03:31:51 PM new
The IRS already has a task force assigned to the internet with a subdivision focused on eBay sellers.
Have a nice day.
Republican, the other white meat!
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ebayauctionguy
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posted on September 9, 2003 04:08:11 PM new
Airline passengers should be profiled with a point system. All males between 18-65 get one point. New US citizens (within last 10 years) get one point. Non US citizens get 2 points. Passengers from the Middle East or Muslim countries get an additional 2 points. Etc.
Every passenger with a score of 5 are searched and questioned. Scores of 4 are all questioned and randomly searched. Scores of 3 are randomly searched. Scores of 2 or lower are not searched or questioned.
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gravid
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posted on September 9, 2003 04:40:42 PM new
The new way of thinking is that you are not a danger if you want to harm the government or if you intend to harm it. You are an unacceptable problem if you just are capable of doing harm.
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mlecher
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posted on September 9, 2003 05:14:03 PM new
The IRS already has a task force assigned to the internet with a subdivision focused on eBay sellers.
But no one assigned to investigate corporate income tax fraud.
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stonecold613
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posted on September 9, 2003 09:46:53 PM new
gravid, replaymedia, davebraun, mlecher, Helenjw, skylite, kraftdinner are the 1-2 % list at airports.
Why should it be any different at the airports than it is here at vendio. 98-99% of the people disagree with their views here too.
[ edited by stonecold613 on Sep 10, 2003 05:08 PM ]
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austbounty
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posted on September 9, 2003 10:30:43 PM new
Point system sounds good!
Do you think there should be points allocated if your Family has a history of working with an enemy.???
(don't answer that linda)
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gravid
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posted on September 10, 2003 04:10:17 AM new
Yes I'm probably on a list. And that is exactly what I am trying to point out. I'd be on such a list because I think different (not PC) not at all because I'd ever blow up an airliner.
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austbounty
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posted on September 10, 2003 04:45:40 AM new
But I think Citizen Linda wants a List of Muslims.
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austbounty
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posted on September 10, 2003 04:51:57 AM new
Why have so many Americans long hated Muslims so much.
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replaymedia
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posted on September 10, 2003 07:05:48 AM new
The Muslims want us dead. It's built in to their religion.
I think a lot of people don't get it. It's not a political problem. No am,ount of negotiation is going to help. It's a system of lifetime beliefs and indoctination. Kill Americans and go to heaven.
Say all you like about any peace-loving Muslim friends you may have. If they don't want Non-Muslims dead, then they aren't good Mulsims. It's just like the lip-service Christians who go to church every Easter.
If you truly believed that was all it took to be guaranteed a place in heaven, you might be all for killing a few "infidels" yourself.
I don't hate Muslims. Not a bit. But they DO hate us.
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Replay Media
Games of all kinds!
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mlecher
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posted on September 10, 2003 07:28:06 AM new
The Muslims want us dead. It's built in to their religion.
And where, replay, do you learn this racist piece of trash? Your hero Falwell?
It is NOT built in to their religon except by a few fanatics. Similar to the attitude of the crusaders of old.
It is "built in" to the Christian religion to kill all non-believers. Or so they also believed....EVEN TO THIS DAY. Only the "Christian" believer's heart, the victim must be much weaker and unarmed. Such as an unwed mother or and unarmed doctor or a decimated race or country.
I am sure the Native American race would laugh in your face when you claim that christianity wasn't about genocide of unlike races, including jews, the origianl christians.
I have to give the Muslim fanatics some credit for attacking a foe who can fight back.
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austbounty
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posted on September 10, 2003 08:17:58 AM new
Replaymedia: How long and frequently have they been portrayed in your literature or other media as the 'mad Arab'?
Have you ever seen images of Jews being portrayed as innovators in the use of terrorist bombing.
Do you feel this line of questioning would be particularly offensive to American sensibility.
An archaeologist for example can understand cultural attitudes by studying their literature.
I would have at a guess that you have never read the Koran and probably not the Bible either, in order to pass honest judgement in comparing the 2 faiths.
Of less than a hand full of people that I can say I know that are truly amiable people, one is a Muslim and he assures me that what you are now asserting is not correct.
We all know that there are juicy instructions to smite in the Bible and to kill ’tribes’.
Your assertions are as reliable as Bush’s assertions of the existence of WOMD.
NORMAL is relative.
I think it’s fair or reasonable to say that the average American opinion of Arabs is more negative than the rest of the world’s view and it has been for a long time.
Replay media“If they don't want Non-Muslims dead, then they aren't good Mulsims.””
I’m trying to be rational about this and not make flippant assertions like you.
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Fenix03
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posted on September 10, 2003 08:32:34 AM new
::I think a lot of people don't get it. It's not a political problem. No am,ount of negotiation is going to help. It's a system of lifetime beliefs and indoctination. Kill Americans and go to heaven.::
Could you please explain then how my father and step mother managed to live peacfully and happily in Saudi Arabia for nearly ten years? My father worked with Saudi residents every day and was never even threatened.
If this was truly their only thought, then don't you believe that in 10 years at least one person would have tried to harm them?
Stop falling for the hype and the stereotypes.
And would SOMEONE who believes this PLEASE explain to me how a religion that is thousands of years old includes surrounds a belief to eliminate a population that is only 228 years old.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
Men Are Like Grapes. If You Stomp on Them and Keep Them in the Dark Long Enough, They Might Turn Into Something That You Would Take to Dinner
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replaymedia
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posted on September 10, 2003 08:50:39 AM new
"And would SOMEONE who believes this PLEASE explain to me how a religion that is thousands of years old includes surrounds a belief to eliminate a population that is only 228 years old."
The Koran does not specify killing Christians or Jews. It specifically says that all Non-Muslims must be destroyed. It doesn't pick and choose which ones to eliminate.
And yes, it *IS* in the Koran.
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Replay Media
Games of all kinds!
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gravid
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posted on September 10, 2003 08:51:31 AM new
The minority that are motivated to kill in the name of religion are so disproportionate in their effect on the rest of us that saying the majority are not that way is not relevant. As long as enough are driven to death dealing violence they are what concern us.
When you are torn to shreds by a suicide bomber the other 10,000 nominal believers who did not kill you seem unimportant.
If the belief system was destroyed which would be noticed more - the absence of the one or the 10,000?
And if their religion is a minor part of their life is it really too much to ask the 10,000 to abandon their sect if it stops one of them from becoming a monster?
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austbounty
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posted on September 10, 2003 09:13:10 AM new
FACTApprox. 12 or 15,000 every year are kiled in America by Americans.
gravid, is it too much to ask they put down the guns.
Clean out you kitchen, it stinks.
Extreme nationalism is high.
Replaymedia "And yes, it *IS* in the Koran."
You are full of $hit, and a pro-war extremist simpleton, with no regard for logic.
You promote the hatred of Muslims with your lies.
Here is evidence that your asertions are nothing more than feable lies.
http://www.landoverbaptist.org/news1001/answers.html
Whose god orders the most violent plight for nonbelievers while on Earth?
Correct Answer: C. (The Christian god because he ordered his followers to kill all those of a different religion, including family members, friends and even their cattle, whereas the Moslem god simply required the enslaving of nonbelievers .) “If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods . . . thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people . . . If thou shalt hear . . . Certain men . . . have withdrawn the inhabitants of their city, saying, Let us go and serve other gods . . . Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants ofthat city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword” (Deuteronomy13:6-15). “Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection” (Koran 9:29).
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Fenix03
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posted on September 10, 2003 09:21:35 AM new
The Replay - then could you please stop saying that Muslims are indoctrinated to hate and kill AMERICANS.
It's a rather unique arrogance that has brought many to redefine that all encompassing "infidels" classification to mean specifically "Americans".
Considering the number of non muslims that are in much closer proximity, if this aspect of the Muslim belief were truly emphasied don't you think Europe, being much more geographically convienent would be overrun with religiously motivated muslim mass murders? How many years have you lived among Muslims in the US without the trying to do you harm?
How is it that you can accept that there are customs and beliefs in the Christian bible that have been left by the way side as society evolved but are not capable of extending that same possibility to the Koran. Of course there are extremeists, there always will be, but there are also Christian extremists, etc. There are twisted people in this world, but they are individuals, not entire societies.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
Men Are Like Grapes. If You Stomp on Them and Keep Them in the Dark Long Enough, They Might Turn Into Something That You Would Take to Dinner
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REAMOND
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posted on September 10, 2003 09:42:36 AM new
They are being taught to hate and kill Americans by their religion and it is not just a radical minority.
I also doubt that your parents weren't buffeted by the natives in 10 years in SA if it was after the oil embargo of the 1970s. The workers I know that lived there coundn't wait until their contracts were up to leave.
Their experiences included being spat upon when leaving the plane when they got there.
If you think this war on terrorism isn't about the Islamic religion and culture, you are fatally naive.
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REAMOND
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posted on September 10, 2003 09:48:36 AM new
Aust- The link you provided to the Landover Baptist church is a parody site. You need to scruntinize your sources more carefully.
The 1-2% passenger denial rate is because the US must adapt the same security measures that Israel and several other countries have been using for years.
We will be in a high security state like Israel if we do not bring the terrorists and the culture that supports them to its knees and cut its head off.
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