posted on October 22, 2003 11:07:11 AM new
It seems that there are a group of ‘judeo-christian’ people that are just as fanatical and dangerous as ‘muslim’ Osama.
I describe there faiths with a small ‘j’,’c’ &’m’ because many faithful religious followers will tell you that they are not true followers at all, the message of ‘love’ is hardly what they spread.
No wonder our nations’ forefathers (Australia Included) thought it wise to attempt to separate the powers of State Judiciary and Church.
These guys are nuts!!!
I was prompted to start this thread after seeing a program on t.v about this new top-selling ‘christian-science-FICTION’ novel in USA. (tittle escapes me).
This is not the first time we have seen the United Nations being portrayed as the Antichrist, coming out of US literature. And even so, if we want to be apocalyptic about it; who is currently ruling the roost in the land of Babylon?
I keep hearing from many of the pro-wars group that this is not an American Jihad,
that Bush does not command his people to HATE Muslims, but his lieutenants do not give that message at all, as was the case with the US General in Iraq this last week. The same hateful messages being spread by many on the ‘christian’ right; and that message has been spewed by the very Leaders of the ‘Coalition of the Willing’ often enough too.
In spite of the facts before us, the spineless “False Prophets” here on Vendio still deny it.
No Integrity, No Honour, No Shame………..No Salvation.
Only absurd biblical like quotes from men loved by the KKK, like Charlton Heston.
Here is the standard ‘text book’ recipe for the New World Order, which has been promised;
"When I said during my presidential bid that I would only bring Christians and Jews into the government, I hit a firestorm. `What do you mean?' the media challenged me. `You're not going to bring atheists into the government? How dare you maintain that those who believe in the Judeo-Christian values are better qualified to govern America than Hindus and Muslims?' My simple answer is, `Yes, they are.'" Pat Robertson, in his book The New World Order
The Rise of the Religious Right in the Republican Party Voter apathy is the key to the phenomenal ascent of the Religious Right in the U.S. government. "With the apathy that exists today, a small, well-organized minority can influence the selection of candidates to an astonishing degree." Pat Robertson
Hatewatch http://www.splcenter.org/intel/hatewatch/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
The Los Angeles Times
Published on October 12, 2003
The Rev. Fred Phelps plans to commemorate the fifth anniversary of Matthew Shepard's murder in his own unique style — by designing a granite monument engraved with Shepard's face followed by these chiseled words: "Matthew Shepard Entered Hell October 12, 1998, at Age 21 In Defiance of God's Warning: 'Thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind; it is abomination.' Leviticus 18:22."
Shepard died after being tied to a fence and beaten into a coma on Oct. 7, 1998, allegedly because he was homosexual. He died five days later.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Anti-mask law advances in Lyon County
The (Louisville, Ky.) Courier-Journal
Published on October 9, 2003
In a unanimous vote the Lyon Fiscal Court molded a measure that would ban the Ku Klux Klan and similar groups from wearing masks in public, but allow exceptions for seasonal events, theatrical productions, sporting equipment and parties held on private property. Violators face up to a 90-day jail sentence and $250 fine.
The Dawson Springs-based Imperial Klans of America has said it will return to Eddyville at an undetermined date for another rally to protest what the leaders says is police harassment of local members and sympathizers.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Killer of Sikh sentenced to death
The Arizona Republic
Published on October 10, 2003
Dismissing arguments that Frank Roque, 44, is mentally ill, jurors decided the Mesa machinist's disrespect for human life greatly outweighed his disputed mental capacity when he shot Balbir Singh Sodhi to death four days after terrorists killed more than 3,000 people in the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks.
Singh Sodhi, 49, of Mesa, an immigrant from India, wore a turban in expression of his Sikh faith and was shot because Roque mistakenly identified him as Arab.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
They are a sick and twisted bunch;
These are certainly dangerous times we live in.
posted on October 22, 2003 11:55:05 AM newNo wonder our nations' forefathers (Australia Included) thought it wise to attempt to separate the powers of State Judiciary and Church.
I do not agree with that statement. They did no such thing. None of us know exactly what our forefathers 'thought'. We have their words, which we obviously each interpret in our own way. That's why there's been disagreement on this for a long time.
IMO, the purpose was to be sure the 'state' did not endorse any particular religion, like had previously been done in England.
--------------
It's clear how you feel about Christians. What are your thoughts/opinions on children in many of the Muslim countries being raised from childhood, and taught in their schools, hatred of the West? Or is that okay with you?
I have yet to see a Christian school, a public school, a private school or a Christian church who advocate eliminating Muslims, Jews or any other religion, off the face of the earth.
posted on October 22, 2003 01:40:47 PM new
I disagree with that statement. I grew up in a non-Christian household and observed regularly that on Wednesday's the local priest whipped up the kids in his Cathecism (sp I'm sure)who felt it their duty to wreak havoc on any non-believer they could find (myself included).
I also would point out the 100 year war, the 10 year war, the Crusades, the ongoing strife in Ireland, the War of the Roses and countless other wars fought in the name of Christendom.
I am not stating that the Christian religion has a corner on the hate market basically all religions seem to have an equal claim to hatred of others.
posted on October 22, 2003 03:39:53 PM newTo this day, the Saudi clergy continues to fund Pakistan's madrasas that are a substitute for the country's non-existent national education system. The only schools outside madrasas are expensive private institutions. Pakistan, with a crushing defense burden, only spends 1.7 percent of GDP on education (vs. 8 percent in India and 16.5 percent in the United States).
Some 12,000 Koranic schools provide free room and board to some 700,000 Pakistani boys (ages 6 to 16) where they are taught to read and write in Urdu and Arabic and recite the Koran by heart. No other disciplines are practiced, but students are proselytized with anti-American, anti-Israeli and anti-Indian propaganda. By the time they graduate, the majority is convinced that becoming a jihadi, or holy warrior, is the only way to block America's alleged plans to destroy Islam.
taken from the UPI today in an article entitled: Pakistan-Saudi Trade Nukes for Oil.
------------
dave - Just but remember it's not Christian children, when grown, that are being bred and raised to come after YOUR country, to destroy it. And THIS indoctrination didn't just start since Bush was elected either.
posted on October 22, 2003 05:10:22 PM new
I beg to differ on that point. It is my belief that Fundamental Christians pose a great threat to the US at this time. I do not downplay the threat posed by others from outside the US but to ignore the fact that there is this homegrown element is absurd.
Republican, the other white meat!
posted on October 22, 2003 05:46:19 PM new
Yes dave, you and others here have *more than* made your anti-Christian views crystal clear.
It's also crystal clear that those 'like-minded' people ask for, and expect 'tolerance' of those with different faiths, views, etc. [diversity]. But somehow they do not show that same tolerance to Christians. There's a bias showing....that's turned into a hatred, imo.
posted on October 22, 2003 05:53:38 PM new
"I do not downplay the threat posed by others from outside the...."
Your they're picking on us poor Christians is a load of huey. My views are not anti Christian they are anti extremist a segment which is comprised of both Christian, Muslim and Jew.
posted on October 22, 2003 09:15:13 PM new
Linda “but students are proselytized with anti-American, anti-Israeli and anti-Indian propaganda.”
Which is exactly like the anti-Muslim propaganda that has been SUCCESSFULLY pushed to you!
“Just but remember it's not Christian children, when grown, that are being bred and raised to come after YOUR country, to destroy it. “
Linda, if you haven’t already realised, then I guess there is little hope of me convincing you that we have bombed the crap out of a few Islam-Centric States, and poured MANY resources into the resultant destabilisation of their regions.
You continue to bear false witness, with assertions about the ‘inherent’ ‘evils’ of Islam.
Your ‘interpretation’ of this statement by Pat Robertson
is very selective.
“Judeo-Christian values are better qualified to govern America than Hindus and Muslims”
It is clear to me that he means to specifically exclude all the ‘heathen’ (my word) from all levels of government.
Does your dictionary have a picture of flowers alongside of ‘heathen’ and a devil next to ‘infidel’?
How many times have the words ‘evil’ and ‘Islam’ been used in the same sentence by the chicken-Hawks of war?
Your understanding of the term ‘extremist’ seems to be only applied to non-Jews and non-Christians.
I understand the reason for your ignorance, for you ‘know not what you do’.
It is difficult for us all to overcome subjective perceptions that have resulted from a lifetime of indoctrination.
You know, for example, that many people in our nations still believe that ‘black men’ are inferior; or do you deny that too?
You Linda, are engaging in an evil act; the promoting of religious persecution; this message has been spewed forth time and again by many of our leaders.
The Judeo-Christian Jihad is coming along nicely.
Your beliefs have been so hardened that you give no compassion at all, eg. but cetainly not limited to, the children which are held in Guantanamo Bay.
Ask about camp Iguana?
The military proudly points out that there is no barbed wire on the fences at Camp Iguana--and that in one section of the fence, the guards have even cut holes in the green mesh so that the boys can look out at the ocean. One soldier told the reporter that Camp Delta and Camp Iguana prisoners are being treated "well, so that eventually, when they get released back to their country, they know that Americans are generous and good people."
Shocked, sickened, but no awe here...
The pro-wars (plural) christian folk have no specific knowledge of why these children are there and no compassionate concern either.
You turn your back on innocent people and children Linda, and continue to bear false witness.
posted on October 22, 2003 09:28:58 PM new
I see that you gave yourself plenty of time to familiarise yourself with the evil acts being perpetrated by YOUR nation's representatives in this black hole.
posted on October 22, 2003 09:55:03 PM new
On Killing Muslims in the name of Conservative Compassionatism .
"The wars of extermination have given a lot of people trouble unless they know what was going on. The people in the land of Palestine were very wicked. They were given over to idolatry; they sacrificed their children; they had all kinds of abominable sex practices; they were having sex, apparently, with animals; they were having sex men with men, and women with women; they were committing adultery, fornication; they were worshipping idols, offering their children up; and they were forsaking God.
"God told the Israelites to kill them all -- men, women and children, to destroy them. And that seems to be a terrible thing to do. Is it? Or isn't it?"
"Well, let us assume there were 2,000 of them, or 10,000 of them living in the land, or whatever number there was of them. I don't have the exact number. Pick a number. God said, 'Kill them all.'
"Well, that would seem hard, wouldn't it? That would be 10,000 people who would probably go to Hell. But, if they stayed and reproduced, in 30 or 40 or 50 or 60 or 100 more years, they could conceivably be -- 10,000 would go to a 100,000 -- 100,000 could conceivably go to a million. And then, there would be a million people who would have to spend eternity in Hell! And it's far more merciful to take away a few than to see in the future a 100 years down the road, and say, 'Well, I have to take away a million people that would forever be apart from God, ' because the abomination was there like a contagion. God saw that there was no cure for it. It wasn't going to change; their hearts weren't going to change; and all they would do is cause trouble for the Israelites, and pull the Israelites away from God, and prevent the truth of God from reaching the Earth."
"So, God, in love, took away a small number that he might not have to take away a large number."
--The 700 Club, May 6, 1985
posted on October 22, 2003 09:58:26 PM new
Do not read about "Black Collar Crimes" Linda.
http://www.lipsio.com/gainesvillehumanists/trust.htm
"every one of the 187 Catholic dioceses in the United States has been sued over priestly abuse of children."
"When a religion is good, I conceive it will support itself; and when it does not support itself, and God does not take care to support it so that its professors are obligated to call for help of the civil power, it's a sign, I apprehend, of its being a bad one."
posted on October 23, 2003 12:18:55 AM new
A celebration of diversity in The eyes of NRA & KKK, and little criticised by the Religious Extremists.
The Propaganda from the subversive ‘LEFT’ Media never lets you hear about these guys.
Back to Religious Rule
(Of The People By the People) NO
(Of the People By False profets) Bring it on!
http://www.anabaptists.org/ras/31e30.html
"Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, and will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty" (2 Corinthians 6:17, 18).
posted on October 23, 2003 05:33:22 AM new
To clarify a few points:
dave said: I grew up in a non-Christian household.
So did I.
who felt it their duty to wreak havoc on any non-believer they could find
Havoc, the way you used it above, is not the same as threatening to kill, to declare war against a group of others, to teach hatred. It's usually an annoyance to convert others to their faith and many have encountered that from different religious groups. The only one where I've never seen it is with the Jewish faith.
I am not stating that the Christian religion has a corner on the hate market basically all religions seem to have an equal claim to hatred of others.
You and I just see religious people differently. Because in my lifetime I have never met anyone from any religious group that I judge to be hateful people. I have found them to be loving people even those in disagreement with the beliefs of others.
Having different views about one's own religion does not mean one religion 'hates' another, but rather they have areas of disagreement in the practice of their personal religion's philosophy. Different views. But there is a certain 'respect' there to just be in disagreement with one another, not to threaten to kill.
Because I disagree with what others say on politics, doesn't not mean I hate those people. I just disagree with the way they have interpreted the issue.
Because they hold different opinions, does not mean I wish to kill them in order to have my views be the only law.
I am saying that there are lots of people/groups that hate. It's not a religious issue, it's a people issue, religious or not.
the 100 year war, etc. I am speaking to the issues occurring *today*, in *our* country, not religious history. I believe there is an effort to take away religious freedoms, mainly focused on the Christian religion. It's in the news all the time. Someone else having their right to practice their religion freely being challenged in court.
I wouldn't expect you to agree with my view. This is coming from the liberals in our country who continue to argue our nation wasn't formed/built with the mention of God in any part of our government. And I disagree on that point. I believe there is much proof that there was.
[ edited by Linda_K on Oct 23, 2003 06:01 AM ]
posted on October 23, 2003 06:48:21 AM new
Unfortunately Linda, too many people seem to have taught their children the love of some absurd ideal or an insignificant flag and not the love of people. I see little compassion coming from those you seem to view as ‘conservatives’.
Do you know what ‘anti-American’ is? How is it that you don’t understand the term ‘anti-Muslim’; or think that the prior is pure bias prejudice and the latter is righteous?
Schools are not the only means by why propaganda is propagated within a culture.
Take these new popular (smash hit) American christian Sci-Fi, where the UN is the Anti-Christ, or the Dave Letterman Show with all his anti-Muslim jokes; or the smash hit ‘The Matrix’; did you notice where the ‘Good Guys’ are from??? From Zion.
You probably don’t notice because you ‘expect’ the bad guy to be Muslim or Arab
Just because a Jew does not seek to embrace outsiders to their faith; it does not prevent a Zionist from seeking to indoctrinate you into doing their dirty work.
It shocks me that even though ‘they’ Jews, Israelis, Hebrews (or whatever) allegedly represents 2% of your population; they still represent such a strong presence in your media, other popular culture, the founding members of the PNAC, and yet you either don’t see it or refuse to acknowledge it.
Meanwhile you have no hesitation at all in criticising other faiths while having no knowledge of them other than that given you by the clearly Zionist bias dominant culture.
You have also just demonstrated a willingness to criticise your religion and have yet to criticise theirs.
Even 12 who freely comes out with both barrels blazing to attack any nation was willing to accept that the Israeli attack on the USS Liberty was justified.
Remember a while ago I kept asking if we had any Jews here or in the PNAC or Hollywood.
We had one Muslim stand up;
and only one person came forth with a claim to be 1/16th Jewish;
the rest of you Americans were too indoctrinated to ‘admit’ a presence in Hollywood or PNAC, even though they clearly dominate.
All these complicated events at present are too much for me to fully grasp; but there is little doubt in my mind that American Popular Culture is anti-Muslim, and this sentiment continue to be propagated by even you.
Yes: It’s a CRUSADE against the HEATHAN, all for the oil at the end of the rainbow for certain judeo-christian interests.
And I shall be kinder and more honest than dumbya and say;
You’re either with it or against it, and add, or too blind to see it.
Read some opposing thoughts some time; before rejecting them.
I’m not saying you shouldn’t reject an opposing opinion, but at least understand it before you do!
You may wish to ignore the alQaida web site (if they have one); but here is a site that I only discovered yesterday;
Then again you may wish to completely reject it’s validity without reading it (and I’m quite certain you will) on the basis that it is run by Muslims, fearing that you may burn in hell or that your mind is too susceptible to indoctrination.
http://english.aljazeera.net/HomePage
Yes Linda, I know, I know: To you all of this is ‘Liberal’, ‘Pinko’, ‘Commie’, ‘Leftie’, ‘anti-certain-Semites’, ‘anti-American’, ‘unpatriotic’ and EVIL, but your growing American Religious Right dominant culture, which opposes ‘other’ Semites and Islam, is not!
posted on October 23, 2003 06:52:51 AM new Settlers kill Palestinian in firefight
“Under the terms of an agreement with the Palestinian Authority, Israel withdrew from 80% of Hebron in 1997, but continues to occupy an enclave near the Tomb of the Patriarchs.
Within the enclave live 600 hardline settlers who are protected by hundreds of soldiers and surrounded by 120,000 Palestinians.”
posted on October 23, 2003 08:12:54 AM newHow is it that you don't understand the term 'anti-Muslim';
I do understand the term. I am very concerned when I read or hear their clerics asking their people to become bombing martyrs on buses, etc., paying their families a reward to act in such a way [Saddam]. I am very concerned when we are told this is a peacful religion when they teach such hatred and call for the deaths of those in Israel and in the West.
I see Israel as a country that would like to live in peace, but can't because they're continually being murdered. When the other choice they have is to 'work this out through negociations'. They're not going to be happy, and have so stated, until the Jews are totally out of the area. I find that totally unacceptable. They can just learn to live peaceably with Israel or suffer the consequences. And I certainly do not wish for my country to become like Israel. If I did, I would move there. And American's would not stand for one minute, the continued bombing that Israel has had to live with for a very long time on our own soil. Be they religious or not.
I can see the results of their actions. I do not see that from Christian leaders. But IF I did see Christians doing the same thing, I would be just as opposed. The peaceful Muslim community needs to condemn those in their religion who do support these killers [terrorists].
It's the actions of these people that are the cause of the growing anti-Muslim sentiment, as it would be if any religious group were doing the same thing.
Schools are not the only means by why propaganda is propagated within a culture.
Agreed. But in the US our children are taught in school, that we live in a nation of diversity. They are taught to accept differences in religions...and are given a touch of what each is about. Same can't be said in Muslim countries.
You probably don't notice because....
I don't notice because I don't watch those shows. And besides, they are *entertainment* not government sponsored political statements.
It shocks me that even though 'they' Jews, Israelis, Hebrews (or whatever) allegedly represents 2% of your population; they still represent such a strong presence in your media...etc.
Just like our gay community does. Just like a lot of small groups here in American do. They [gays] too are only about 2% of our citizens, but they have grown greatly in political power. That's no different to me. And I don't excuse anything. I don't feel the Jewish people are a threat to my country.
you have no hesitation at all in criticising other faiths while having no knowledge of them other than that given you by the clearly Zionist bias dominant culture.
I have only criticised the Muslims because of their violent actions and their continue belief that all infidels and Jews need to be killed. I wouldn't support that from any religious group. I criticise the peaceful Muslims who aren't denoucing LOUDLY the actions of those killers. I criticise those who give financial to these groups....just as I do the KKK that you're always saying I support.
You have also just demonstrated a willingness to criticise your religion and have yet to criticise theirs. huh????
Even 12 who freely comes out with both barrels blazing to attack any nation was willing to accept that the Israeli attack on the USS Liberty was justified.
It's these sort of statements from you that is the reason I seldom respond to your posts. I can CLEARLY read twelvepole's postings. He said NO such thing. You claim he did, but that's NOT what I read. I read he believed it was an accident, not intentional. There is a difference to me between the two.
Remember a while ago I kept asking if we had any Jews here or in the PNAC or Hollywood. We had one Muslim stand up; and only one person came forth with a claim to be 1/16th Jewish; the rest of you Americans were too indoctrinated to 'admit' a presence in Hollywood or PNAC, even though they clearly dominate.
Your view is so distorted to me, compared to how I see this. First of all, asking who here is Jewish was to single them out for an argument. Why in the world would they willing want that? Second it's not indoctrination but rather an acceptance that there is NO threat coming from those people. Are they pooling funds to destroy American? No...but other Muslim countries are and that's what's important to me.
I could go on....but I won't. People can see what's happening for themselves and make their own decisions on every issue you bring to the table. And many who are not religious are making these same observations too. They are quite capable of deciding which side they favor and for what reasons.
So while you continue to be very anti-American on the issues, I fully support my country....and yours for helping us during these last two conflicts.
posted on October 23, 2003 09:06:04 AM new
And of course you do not see the statements of Pat Robertson as being provocative. Ignore the violence committed against doctors, health clinics etc.
As to your concept that my objection is to being proselytized that is 100% incorrect. I speak to the physical attacks against non Christians, I consider slamming the door on Jehovah's Witnesses to be good sport and not worth mentioning.
It's difficult to argue my points in this forum as I run the risk of being lumped in with Aust whom I also disagree with for other reasons and don't wish to cloud up the issues and do not wish my stance to be taken as support for Aust's position.
Republican, the other white meat!
posted on October 23, 2003 09:59:45 AM newAnd of course you do not see the statements of Pat Robertson as being provocative. I do not read nor hear about his statements unless they are brought up in this forum. But dave, surely you are not saying that provocative statements, from any one source, *are the same* as the teachings of one religions beliefs [as a whole] who are/have calling for deaths of Jewish and Western people are you? They don't see atheists/non-believers in our country any different that our own religious or religious fanatics, it's our system of government they wish to destroy, imo. That was the point I tried to make when I say they'll be coming after all of us....they're not singling out our religious only.
Ignore the violence committed against doctors, health clinics etc. I have never ignored that. Nor do I approve of killing of abortion doctors, while I do agree with limiting abortions.
your concept that my objection is to being proselytized that is 100% incorrect. Okay, sorry, that's the way it came across to me. I speak to the physical attacks against non Christians....not specific enough to comment on. But any physical abuse of another is covered under our laws.
It's difficult to argue my points in this forum as I run the risk of being lumped in with Aust whom I also disagree with for other reasons and don't wish to cloud up the issues and do not wish my stance to be taken as support for Aust's position. I understand. When too many issues are brought into the mix at one time, it does make it hard to debate.
posted on October 23, 2003 12:35:34 PM new
I know that my statements are often seen as extreme and to be honest, in some cases I agree they are.
It is my intent, as I do not have the luxury of subjecting the minds on these boards to decades or centuries of discrete indoctrination to encourage acceptance of another view.
Here is part of 12’s statement
"USS Liberty incident was a tragic event, but we were trying to spy during a war"
http://www.vendio.com/mesg/read.html?num=28&id=177136&thread=177062
so again,
Even 12 who freely comes out with both barrels blazing to attack any nation was willing to accept that the Israeli attack on the USS Liberty was justified.
Believe it or not Linda, I do support ‘some’ Americans , but certainly not the chicken-hawks of war.
I have one of only a hand full of people today that I consider a close friend, he is Muslim.
I also have another close friend (who we happen to share) who is of the type that we in Australia affectionately refer to as a Good Aussie Mongrel, meaning made of mixed races, just like some of our good sheep dogs. His family has been here for many generations, has a German or Jewish sounding surname and is little certain which and little cares and neither do I.
Today, the Muslim and I spoke of the christian ‘Religious Right’, we did agree that they are as dangerous and undesirable as Osamma, and that they are not deserving of being called true Christians or Muslims.
His perception was that the Religious Right is the way things are for all Americans and that you all share the same ‘conservative’ views, this perception is not limited to Muslims in Australia, it is much more wide spread than that IMO;
Believe it or not I too appreciate Americans and will insist as I did to him that all do not share these views and that there is just as in our ‘democracy’ there a diversity of views, which ARE expressed.
One thing which doesn’t happen in Australia is that we don’t go around calling each other un-Australian, because of political or religious differences, although I have noticed one or two politicians recently make such a statement and it is of great concern to me because it appears to me as a cheap tool to crush debate.
Again you said of the Muslims (expressed or implied) that “they teach such hatred and call for the deaths of those in Israel and in the West”
“in the US our children are taught in school, that we live in a nation of diversity. They are taught to accept differences in religions...”
“I don't notice because I don't watch those shows. And besides, they are *entertainment* not government sponsored political statements.”
Yes Linda, it is ‘entertainment’ and yes our schools are meant to teach ‘acceptance’, but the fact remains that the media is a powerful tool, and you and I both know that the ‘dirty/mad/murdering_Arab’ has been portrayed many a time and again in American Literature and Entertainment and I know because we get much of the later here.
You may think it not, or it may even not be ‘official’ Government policy; to spread hatred of Muslims and Arabs but the references are made, so often by those at the very top that they do have a great effect.
Hell!,
I even had to stop a Jackie Chan movie (I think it was) because in the very opening scene there were some mad Arab Bombers.
To explain to my young son that the ‘MAD ARAB’ is a popular depiction in movies.
This trend to have them portrayed as dirty or mad or murdering Arabs has been for many decades, if not well into the early C20th. That’s getting on to a century of ‘discrete indoctrination’ in popular culture.
I try to be careful an un-bias when making ‘representations’ to my children because I want them to know the truth, and I don’t want them growing up to be nutty full blown anti-Amercans.
But how can I sit down with a pre-teen child and explain the little I know of neocon funding to Ossama and WOMD to Saddam and the paltry funding bush put forth to get the ‘truth’ about WTC; so you know what, and the oil grabs we of the Anglo-Centric-Nations have made in the region through history; I just don’t.
He loves Sienfeld, and I do too, and all the other American Jewish comedians, movies etc.
And you know what else, even though my eldest son is not equipped with the information to make an informed decision, like you, he passes judgment and he is pro war. And I find that sad.
I send them to a Private Catholic Elementary School because, they are cheaper than other private schools, and they supposedly are taught some good moral values, and frankly the public school system stinks a little because of funding.
And yet having spoken on the topic with the principal during a private function, although he admits to never having read the Koran, he too ‘bore witness’ to what he assured me ‘the fact’ that the Koran teaches Killing of Infidels.
Perhaps he picked up this little contemptuous ‘gem’ of information from the same place you and my son have.
I had a Jehovah’s Witness come into my shop the other day ‘spruiking’, I invited him in and offered him a seat and we spoke of godly things, he too made the same claim of “the Koran teaches Killing of Infidels”, and he too admitted to never having read the Koran or having tried to understand it, he was obviously spewing forth what he was taught.
I accused him of bearing FALSE WITNESS and printed out this page for him http://www.landoverbaptist.org/news1001/answers.html
Well you may know me well enough to know that I enjoyed the entertainment of him breaking out in a mild sweat and as he said his goodbyes and headed for the door I asked him to wait a little and handed him pages 2&3 as they came out of the printer.
I put it to you Linda that the people of any country, just like the Palestinians, (not recognised by MSWord97) regardless of its Religious dominance, in the absence of formal military muscle, in their struggle to achieve their freedom would react in the same way, just as the Jews engaged in terrorist bombings in the lead to the establishment of their land.
The UN had a vote last week for Israel to pull down their walls in Palestinian territory approx 140For 3Against (USA & ISRAEL) and 12Abstain (including AUSTRALIA).
Israel then walked out!
Sure thing, they will listen to debate.
And the religious right says ‘but there weren’t any Palestinians in Palestine’ (BS)
And other here say ‘they had their chance and so ..tough!’
Where do so many of us get the idea that they are HEATHANS and can’t understand when some of us believe they think us infidels, ignoring the fact that they have been given much reason to believe that we are trying to ‘dick them’.
Its all about land grabbing and resources on both sides and religion has been used as a cheap tool by certain pro-war mongers on both sides and still is.
As I see it, it’s their land, their oil, and if that means they get the upper economic hand then so be it, that is justice.
As I understand it, the Jews and Christians and Muslims have lived side by side in Palestine until it was all politicised with the help of the Anglos and Zionists (not recognised by MSWord97) with a 2000year old land claim, prior to that were typical tribal differences as experienced in all ‘undermodernised’ regions (not that we are free of wars).
I can’t expect Jews to leave now after ½ a century, but don’t you think it’s time they stopped trying to squeeze out the Palestinians.
What make you think The Lebanese or other Arabs should take the Palestinians; It’s more absurd than the French kicking all Anglos out of Canada and expecting you to take them.
I see these wars as being about money, power, resources and little to do with justice.
Imagine what would happen if you walked down the street of your home town with a t-shirt cartoon similar to the one earlier with Uncle Sam but with the comment ‘Bring’em On Jew Boy’ or ‘Bring’em On Black Boy’
I’d imagine you would at least have the crap beat out of you for either, but a political hopeful would probably get away with an anti-black comment than an anti-Jewish one.
I wonder if Strom Thurman (one time Great deffender of rights to lynch the black people)
made any Jewish comments as strong as his anti-black comments and if he did would he have survived politically, But anti-Muslim at any time in his pox ridden career would have been: NO PROBLEMO for the Judeo Christian Right.
GOD LORD! 1491 Words according to MSWord97.
I hope I didn’t come across too anti-American, I tried not too. (chicken-Hawks excluded)
posted on October 23, 2003 12:49:45 PM new
I believ davebraun wishes to somewhat distance himself from me because of my anti-Zionist comments;
That's fine and understandable
but also note that those one the right, in particullar, are little likely to distance themselves from anti-Muslim comments.
posted on October 23, 2003 01:24:06 PM new
In terms of the conflict in the Middle East and Israel and Palestine in particular I believe both sides to be wrong in terms of tactics and both to have validity in terms of the right to exist. Unfortunately it is currently a lose lose situation and I have nothing constructive to add to any debate. I count among my friends and colleagues many Jews and many Muslims, my take on the matter doesn't get in the way of any of our relationships toward each other which is good.
Republican, the other white meat!
posted on October 23, 2003 02:20:44 PM new
As i said:
I can’t expect Jews to leave now after ½ a century, ...but I do think...it’s time they stopped trying to squeeze out the Palestinians.
No I don't have an answer to that either.
But in Our Own Nations' interests and in the interests of Justice and eternal peace, we could have started our road to peace in Israel as a demonstration of good faith to the Arabs, crushed all resistance, set borders, and then continue along and crush any extreme Muslim resistance too, all the way through every troubled nation in the region and then leave!
But instead we hang around as though longing to fulfil the prophecy of the battle of Armageddon.
