Find nuts of all denominations and creeds here: http://www.apologeticsindex.org
INCLUDING:
Clyde Lott, in USA
One of several Americans in the process of raising and shipping red heifers to Israel in the belief that the birth of a red heifer in Israel will signal the rebuilding of the Temple.
&
Benny Hinn, who claims to make contact with the dead; prophesising the appearance of Jesus at his gatherings, claims of miraculous healing.
posted on November 11, 2003 07:06:18 PM new
Armegeddon cults... from what you wrote about the guy breeding red heifers.
Benny Hinn .... no comment (well besides the really really bad hair )
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posted on November 11, 2003 07:56:40 PM new
I think it’s important for more of us here in the ‘West’ to understand that certain Islamic cults do not have the monopoly on nuts.
I think it also disturbing, as I also pointed out on 12’s ‘Jokes’ topic after hearing about it only a day earlier, that;
The Catholic Church is telling people in countries stricken by Aids not to use condoms because they have tiny holes in them through which HIV can pass
I would not have put the Roman Catholic Church in quite the same basket as some of these other nuts, even though I did know they are opposed to contraception, but this level of ‘false information’ (as compared to that understood by the educated world) can result in as much death and suffering as any war, if not more.
This is a real warning that; for the church to dictate scientific teachings in schools, based on dogma rather than empirical observation, is opening the gates to a ‘dumbing down’ of society.
I’ve asked before but wasn’t answered;
Is it true that evolution is no longer taught in some American Schools, if so, what else does this signal as things to come.
posted on November 11, 2003 09:10:46 PM new
I don't know if evolution is being taught. I can only say, as far as I know.
I know I was not. Thats only because I went to all Catholic schools
As for the Church. the Roman Catholic Church, I'm surprised that it is NOT in the books I have that define cults. (sorry to any Catholics) but I was one myself, and for my own reasons, do not believe in the teachings, not of the Bible or Christ, but of the Church.
Surprisingly, when working on studying cults (which I do, and have taken a lot of time doing it) , a certain HUGE 'corporate' Church comes up as one of the biggest Christian cults. And I will not name it, as I know that there are a lot of people that belong to this one, or eiher know or are related to someone in it.
I cannot say that Christianity, in its 'true' form is bad. Quite the contrary.
I believe there are 'true' forms of Christianity, and I do believe you do NOT have to belong to an organized Religion to be a Christian. It is a belief and NOT a religion.
But I don't think this is what you are talking about, or is it?
Wanna Take a Ride? Art Bell is Back! Weekends on C2C-www.coasttocoastam.com
posted on November 11, 2003 09:42:13 PM newI’ve asked before but wasn’t answered; Is it true that evolution is no longer taught in some American Schools, if so, what else does this signal as things to come.
You fall into the same trap as the christian right, at least in the way you worded your question. Evolution, to my knowlege, has not been "taught"...at least not in the same sense that language and math are taught. Evolution is a theory which describes the change and development of species (including the human species} over time. It has been and still is included as an appropriate part of most science curricula, as it remains the most viable explanation for life on earth in the eyes of the mainstream scientific community. In this country, individual states have traditionally been responsible for determining their own curricula. Prior to the "No Child Left Behind" legislation promulgated by President Bush, a few states took it upon themselves to banish the teaching of evolutionary theory, or at least to include the teaching of Creation "Science" alongside it. These are states which have been strongly influenced by more conservative christian groups, which have pushed and are still pushing for this kind of legislation. The short answer to your question is, yes, there are schools, public schools to be more exact, where evolution is no longer "taught".
As to what it signals, I'll be damned if I can figure it out. American society makes less and less sense to me. We seem to think it's perfectly ok to let preteen girls dress like their slutty pop music idols, we encourage our boys to emulate their drug taking, libertine professional sports idols, all the while we're trying to take away a woman's dominion over her own body, and moaning about the fact that we can't post Christian imagery in public buildings. Go figure.
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In this world of sin and sorrow, there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican. -- H.L. Mencken
[ edited by profe51 on Nov 11, 2003 09:42 PM ]
posted on November 11, 2003 09:49:18 PM new
I’m just trying to breed a little tolerance of Islam by pointing out that there are (small c) christian nuts too.
You say that Christianity in its ‘true’ form is good,
well someone could argue that about Islam too.
I have heard many, many, many, many christians accuse the Koran of teaching hatred while ignoring their own bible’s teachings, (Deuteronomy13:6-15 With Instructions To Destroy And Smite).
Accusing Musims of having a sick fascination with virgins etc and forgeting that the great Moses was the product of an incestuous relationship. Exodus 6:20 And Amram took him Jochebed his father's sister to wife; and she bare him Aaron and Moses:
It seems that religion (in an edited fashion) is being used by many persons to achieve their own agenda, and many believers (in their blindness/dogma) just go along with it, without question even though the information is easily found.
I can only assume, in light of what I was taught, that the Catholic church is spreading false witness in science to further their own agenda….ie. no contraception.
I may be confusing the terms ‘creationism’ with ‘evolution’.
My youngest go to an elementary catholic school, they are taught evolution, dinosaurs, fish growing legs and walking out of the sea, but not monkeys to humans.
They will not be going to a religious secondary school.
IMO, Dogma, Santa, Easter Bunny etc are fine for little ones but older minds need a broader knowledge base to learn.
posted on November 11, 2003 09:56:42 PM new
Near, don't get me wrong, I'm not easily offended, especially about being Catholic...but I do find it interesting that you would name Catholicism as being cult-like (my words), while deferring from naming a religion that is openly called a cult by some....what's wrong with naming them here? I'll name some if you'd like....I've heard Mormonism referred to as a cult, not to mention those Nazarenes, and some of the conservative Baptists, and how about the millions who send millions to Pat Robertson and all those other Bad-Hair Evangelists on the Tee-Vee?? If their members here or elsewhere are offended by that, they need to have the courage of their convictions and get a little tougher hide....
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In this world of sin and sorrow, there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican. -- H.L. Mencken
posted on November 11, 2003 10:02:54 PM newIt seems that religion (in an edited fashion) is being used by many persons to achieve their own agenda, and many believers (in their blindness/dogma) just go along with it, without question even though the information is easily found.
...and this is somehow surprising to you?......
___________________________________
In this world of sin and sorrow, there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican. -- H.L. Mencken
posted on November 12, 2003 01:28:10 AM new
Perhaps ‘SCEPTISISM’ should be taught in schools as a core topic.
Scepticism of all information, that way a young mind can learn to find the truth itself and not grow up to be (I think what Colin called) ‘sheeple’.
Why not read Aljazeera as well as Fox;
one doesn’t have to accept Aljazeera’s statements as truths but at least issues might be brought up which one never even considered and then be free to search out their own truth.
I think that failure to exercise scepticism breeds ignorance.
It is my opinion, based on personal observation, that the conservatives are the ones most likely to ignore opposing opinions, without even giving such opinions any consideration at all.
More than once we have seen the conservatives here make comments like, ‘I wouldn’t ever read that’.
Similarly I had a discussion about Islam evil vs. Christian evils a few weeks ago, of all things with a Conservative Catholic Surgeon who is related closely to me (Church EVERY Sunday & Prayers before ALL meals).
He denied any instructions in the bible to smite and when I offered to send him e-mail of the Deuteronomy chapter and verse, he told me too keep it?
Strangely enough the Priest who had left the Christening party a little earlier, also denied any knowledge of ‘smite’ instructions.
He did point out however that Catholics don’t really follow the Old Testament.
To me, it seemed a strange thing to say; …why read it at all then?
Some of you may be pleased to know that I was restrained in my discussion with the priest.
I wasn’t as easy on the Good Doctor,… poor bloke can’t pick his relatives.
Next time I see the Doc’ I’ll try to remember to ask his opinion about the Catholic Church & condom thing.
His opinion on eyes is that they are too complex and uniform across species to have evolved independently across so many species.
But at least he has questioned that issue.
posted on November 12, 2003 03:04:23 AM new
::His opinion on eyes is that they are too complex and uniform across species to have evolved independently across so many species. ::
I love some of the things that people come upon to "prove" there is a god. I remember bein told that I should believe in god because aerodynamically bumblebees should not be able to fly.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
posted on November 12, 2003 04:43:07 AM newWe seem to think it's perfectly ok to let preteen girls dress like their slutty pop music idols, we encourage our boys to emulate their drug taking, libertine professional sports idols, all the while we're trying to take away a woman's dominion over her own body, and moaning about the fact that we can't post Christian imagery in public buildings. Go figure.
posted on November 12, 2003 04:48:35 AM new
I find most people who don't believe in GOD have never had any reason to, they have done nothing that anyone would consider dangerous or stared death in the face; they are not really close to anyone in particular and take death as lightly as stomping on a cockroach...
The keyword is "belief" you either do or don't, but seems like that those who don't want to take away the rights of those who do.
I for one believe in GOD, because several times I could of died and haven't yet....
posted on November 12, 2003 07:22:51 AM new
Actually, Helen, I've heard it explained that way many times to children.
Bing Bang ... God Started It
Evolution ... Guided by God
Gay Bishops ... That's OK now too
The main failing of Christianity (in my opinion) is that it changes with the times even though God's Word (through the Bible, etc) has not changed.
Clearly the Gay Bishop is the most obvious example. EVERY written work of Christianity declares Homosexuality a major sin, yet modern society says it's OK. Let's not make this a political thread, but you have to admit this is true.
You just don't get these kinds of problems with Buddhists!
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Replay Media
Games of all kinds!
[ edited by replaymedia on Nov 12, 2003 07:23 AM ]
posted on November 12, 2003 07:23:32 AM new
replaymedia, Why don't I put forward the claim made by many of the anglocentric Coalition, in the form of a question too, but direct the question toward christianity (small c); and give you a quote from the bible to help you work out the answer too.
- Isn't the PURE form of Christianity the one that demands the death of all heathans? It's the "slacker" Christians that talk about tolerance.(I'll add a '?' here too)
From our Holy Bible.
“If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods . . . thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people . . . If thou shalt hear . . . Certain men . . . have withdrawn the inhabitants of their city, saying, Let us go and serve other gods . . . Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants ofthat city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword” (Deuteronomy13:6-15).
posted on November 12, 2003 08:05:46 AM new
Wan’a hear something else freaky fenix…the good doctor is a highly regarded eye surgeon.
replaymedia “God's Word (through the Bible, etc) has not changed.”
You may wish to add ‘in essence’, although I’d love to hear that the dead sea scrolls, have gone public, they may have some rellevance.
Wasn’t the New Testament supposedly written by the apostles, but not until 300 years AD?
In Greek?
What is the earliest ‘version’ of God’s word we have today???
Have you heard of ‘it looses in the translation’?
Eg.
What’s the common English word for ‘eros’ or ‘erotus’….
Or if I told you that the sky will open,
In Greek sky or heaven is ‘Uranos’ , strangely also the origin of the word ‘uranium’.
So when ‘God’s word’ speaks of the skies opening is it the heavens or an atomic bomb.
Strange there was an ancient Greek school of philosophers known as atomists, who believed that a piece of wood could be divided down to its smallest elements ‘atom’ and be reconstructed to form butter.
Perhaps if the bible had defined ‘atom’ at about or even after the time of the atomists, some Christians may think it divine prophesy.
But otherwise they are happy to say that the atomists can only be credited with coining the word, they were miles off track.
12 You know God because you have called to him at desperate times?
I think most have.
Tell you the truth at the time of the birth of one of my children, when the umbilical was strangling her, and later it snapped and blood sprayed on the walls, I can tell you that I offered my soul to ALL takers to let my child live.
And having seen children suffer an even dead, I have cursed god too (big time).
Karl Marx had a point (even if not valid) calling all religions ‘the opium of the masses’, people throw up their hands and pray, or take a leap and cross your fingers.
Go to war and pray you are doing the right thing.
But I think he meant it more as a statement of how struggling people in their squalor take comfort in religion when they can do little more.
posted on November 12, 2003 09:47:18 AM new
I am so tired, up most of the night with a sick cat
Aust.. the scripture you cited from Deuteronomy is from the Old Testatment. When Christ came and started teaching, he basically 'threw off the trappings' of the Old Testament. The rites and rituals, for a new way, one that he died for
profe, yes, The Church of Latter Day Saints, or Mormon... is what I was referring to. I think they are about even, or above the corporate ladder or in other words own and have more than the Catholic Church... Not sure. Scientology, yes. Jehovah Witnesses, Word Faith Movement and on and on
The televangelists... those are interesting... I, myself would say yes, other people that study cults would say no, with a BUT..... some would call them charlatans .. (I think that is my personal opinion of them) however there are exceptions of course. There are a couple 'preachers' that appear on TV from time to time, but not on any regular basis that are very good.
We keep the old Testatment, Aust for a variety of reasons. The history, yes and the scriptures are used. The 'beginnings', meaning creationism, is what is taught in Christian churches and schools. Some teach 'Creation Science' ... but then again, like the profe said, Evolution is a theory and so you can say that Creationism is also, that could be your opinion
As for the Catholic Church, I am sorry Profe, that I offended you. I really am, I probably offended my whole family of Irish Catholics here! And everyone I grew up with
I do not believe a lot of what they do, or have done (and I am NOT talking about priest molesting altar boys here, but of course, that is the WORST, its awful! ) I don't believe we should be praying to saints, or even Mary, as even Christ said that 'we should NOT worship idols' and that is exactly what the Church and the parachocial schools teach. As for contraception.... The Church kept pretty archaic for all this time, but with Vatican II a lot of things changed.... I know I am old enough to remember that. I had to learn Latin in Mass, and when I was younger thats ALL their was... then all of a sudden, it went to English.. with V II , which was about 1962? Catholics were hoping that the Pill would become accepted, but the Pope decided it was not. As far as I know today, the 'rhythm method' is acceptable birth control, or of course abstaining from sex. (though, many, many Catholic women do use birth control now )
BUT. What I mentioned above, and how we have a Pope. The Holy Father, our direct link to God. I don't think so. THAT IS MY PERSONAL OPINION. I will have respect for the Pope, and the Church, but most of the things they teach, no. I love to talk to Priests, and have, on these things. To talk to the Pope (besides his condition, that would most likely make that impossible)if his health was better, I would love to talk to him, and question him on all these things
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posted on November 12, 2003 10:00:11 AM new
"To talk to the Pope (besides his condition"
I'm not Catholic, so don't really pay much attention to what's going on with the Pope. I know he's really old and sickly, but what condition does he have?
Alzheimers or something?
-------------------
Replay Media
Games of all kinds!
posted on November 12, 2003 10:08:41 AM new
replay, I don't believe that they let that out of the Vatican, his ACTUAL condition... I think its mostly speculation on his condition.
I wouldn't doubt its Alzheimers, or senility. And any and all descions that are to be made by the Pope, are more than likely made by those that are closest to him. Like a President has close advisors, so does the Pope, and they are Cardinals and such that are by his side all the time.
Wanna Take a Ride? Art Bell is Back! Weekends on C2C-www.coasttocoastam.com
posted on November 12, 2003 10:42:03 AM new
Oh, please. Even I, an athiest, knows that the Pope has Parkinson's Disease. There is nothing wrong with his mind--it's merely trapped in a body that is failing. Censorship, like charity, should begin at home; but unlike charity, it should end there --Clare Booth Luce
posted on November 12, 2003 11:11:36 AM new
bunnicula, you are right. I am sorry that I got that wrong.
He is old, and there has been a lot of rumors, that he is not capable of making a lot of descions as a Pope would.
The Vatican has a lot of secrets. They have kept for a very long time. Not just about the Pope. There is a lot of things that do not leave the Vatican.
Sorry for that mistake.
Wanna Take a Ride? Art Bell is Back! Weekends on C2C-www.coasttocoastam.com
posted on November 12, 2003 07:22:23 PM new
Near, you didn't offend me, honest. I meant what I said about being hard to offend. I'm a Catholic by tradition, but no longer by conviction. My family has been Catholic for 500 years, before that, we were Jews. I'm a member in good standing of the American Sephardi Federation, which is the organization for Spanish Jews and the descendants of Spanish Jews in the US and Latin America. I still go to Mass when somebody dies, and I still am traditional enough to believe in Confession, and I only go to Mass if I've been to Confession, that's a hard and fast rule in my family, but it is based in family tradition more than religious conviction. I like Confession, it makes me feel better. I don't know if god is going to forgive me or not, and I no longer care. I occasionally participate in the activities of the Penitente system which is alive and well here in the southwest. The church has labeled the Penitentes as a cult which exists within the church. Originally, 300 years ago, you maybe saw a priest and were able to go to Mass once every 6 months or so out here in the wilds. The penitente brotherhood arose out of a need for the people to attend Mass and recieve blessings. At first, the church overlooked the fact that non-ordained penitente brothers were saying mass and blessing marriages, because there weren't enough priests to go around. Now, their ceremonies and traditions are officially viewed as cult like. That's too bad as far as I'm concerned, it is a beautiful and intensely personal expression of faith in the resurrection of Christ. As far a personal religious conviction is concerned, I'm more "religious" now than I ever was when I was being drug to Mass twice a week by my grandmother and aunts. My "catholic-ness" has distilled itself into a reliance on several important saints, and the Virgin of Guadalupe, the patroness of all American Latinos. I can no longer describe myself as Catholic by any official sense of the word, indeed I would be hard pressed to even consider myself christian. I believe the creator reveals himself to people according to their needs. Those needs are often determined at least in part by culture. If god reveals himself to me thru a penitente reinactment of the crucifixion, or to you by some other means or not at all, than is between you and him/her/it. Even the fervent anti-god pronouncements of active atheists are to me "religious". I find that lots of people who describe themselves as atheists are really agnostic, with a "don't know, don't care, it's meaningless to me" kind of attitude. That's fine too, as far as I'm concerned. There I've gone and said too much again. Anyhow, you can't offend me, as I pay no allegiance to any human created religious organization.
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In this world of sin and sorrow, there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican. -- H.L. Mencken
posted on November 14, 2003 07:28:47 AM new
CRAWFORD, TX (IWR Satire) -- President Bush today issued a decree ending the separation of church and state.
"In addition to being the leader of the free world, I will henceforth also be known as Pope Hilarious II," said Mr. Bush.
http://www.internetweekly.org/photo_cartoons/cartoon_bush_pope.html
(well besides the really really bad hair 
)
