posted on January 22, 2004 04:08:32 PM new
an. 22, 2004, 5:52PM
Jury sides with Southwest Airlines
on 'eenie, meenie, minie, moe' quip
Associated Press
KANSAS CITY, Kan. - A Southwest Airlines flight attendant's variation on a rhyme with a racist history did not discriminate against two black passengers, a federal jury decided.
The U.S. District Court jury of seven white men and one white woman deliberated less than an hour Wednesday before reaching its verdict.
Grace Fuller, 49, and her sister Louise Sawyer, 46, both of suburban Kansas City, filed the suit over comments flight attendant Jennifer Cundiff made after they boarded a Southwest flight to return from a Las Vegas vacation three years ago next month.
As the two were trying to find seats on the crowded plane, Cundiff said over the intercom, "Eenie, meenie, minie, moe; pick a seat, we gotta go."
Sawyer and Fuller said the rhyme immediately struck them as a reference to an older, racist version in which the first line is followed by the words "catch a n----r by the toe." They testified at the two-day trial that they were embarrassed, humiliated and frustrated. Fuller said she suffered a small seizure on the flight home, which said was triggered by the remark. Later at home, she said she had a grand mal seizure and was bedridden for three days.
Cundiff, 25, of Argyle, Texas, testified that she had never heard the racist version and that she was only trying to inject humor to make the flight more enjoyable and memorable. She wanted passengers to take their seats so the plane could leave.
Cundiff, who had been a flight attendant for eight months at the time, said she had used the rhyme before on other flights. She said that it was not until she showed her mother the letters complaining about what she said that she learned about the racist version of the rhyme.
Fuller said after the verdict that there was enough evidence for jurors to have found she had her sister had been discriminated against.
"If we had jurors of our peers then we would have won the case today, and we should have won the case today, with all the evidence shown," she said.
"It's a shame that the jury pool we had to draw from did not have one black and not one minority," she said. "Something has to be done to make sure there is justice in America for blacks."
Fuller and her sister testified that they first wrote to Southwest complaining that they felt the rhyme was racially offensive, asking that flight attendants stop using it. They said they decided to sue because they felt the airline did not take their complaints seriously.
The lawsuit accused Southwest of violating a 1981 civil rights law that prevents businesses from discriminating against minority customers by treating them differently from white customers for the same service.
Scott A. Wissel, appointed to represent the women after they filed a handwritten complaint, declined comment about the verdict. In his closing argument he said Cundiff's use of the rhyme was tantamount to a racial slur.
John W. Cowden, who represented Southwest Airlines, said he and his client were pleased with the verdict.
"All along, Southwest Airlines has contended that it did not intentionally discriminate against the two ladies," he said. "We are pleased the jury agreed and vindicated Southwest and its flight attendant, Jennifer Cundiff."
In his closing argument, Cowden characterized Cundiff's remarks as an innocent attempt at humor.
"At best, this is an argument that something is not politically correct," Cowden told jurors. "At worst, it is nothing. Certainly, this does not support a violation of a federal statute, because these words were spoken."
Cundiff said she was relieved and thought the verdict was fair and just. She maintained that the rhyme had been directed at several passengers, not just Sawyer and Fuller.
"When I first heard they complained about what I said, I didn't know what they were talking about," she said.
While Cundiff said she probably would never use the rhyme again, "I will not tell anyone not to say it."
posted on January 22, 2004 04:25:34 PM new
I can't believe a judge actually agreed to hear that one. I have flown Southwest dozens of times and the flight attendants regularly have small little rhymes and such that they use for their intros, to say goodbye at the end of the flight, etc. There was nothing racist about therhym and to claim that it caused a grand mal seizure is a hell of a stretch.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
posted on January 22, 2004 04:38:52 PM new
On the other hand, what do you want to bet that the flight attendant who recited that little rhyme was not black?
posted on January 22, 2004 05:14:09 PM new
Hail, hail, the gang's all here...
Now, I know better than to expect any of Vendio's resident bigots to admit that they know (and perhaps recited themselves, as kids) the words to "Eenie, meenie, miney, moe... " but the fact is it's one of those wretched little "sayings" that was assimilated by every child in this country for decades. Sure, its message is harmless enough, unless you happen to be the "ni**er" whose toe is deciding a game of who's going to be "it" in tag.
You folks who so cavalierly dismiss the damage your passive racism does are the problem; not those who bring suits to draw attention to the prevalence -- in this Modern Age -- of people just like you...
posted on January 22, 2004 05:28:59 PM new
It is EXACTLYthose who bring suits to draw attention that cause the problem. The "Oh poor me, I'm a minority!" needs to end.
__________________________________
"I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to the people who sleep under the very blanket of freedom I provide, and then question the manner in which I provide it. I'd rather you just said 'thank you' and went on your way." - A Few Good Men
posted on January 22, 2004 05:41:10 PM new
No, ding-dong, it's your inherent sense of privelege, your blindness to the insidious ways in which minorities have been and are routinely ground-down that are (part of) the problem.
posted on January 22, 2004 05:44:28 PM new
Such a typical liberal response - when all else fails and there is no intellectual basis for an arguement, result to name calling and chastising
__________________________________
"I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to the people who sleep under the very blanket of freedom I provide, and then question the manner in which I provide it. I'd rather you just said 'thank you' and went on your way." - A Few Good Men
posted on January 22, 2004 05:47:26 PM new
Reply to the body of my post, then, wgm, and don't resort to eschewing its message just because you're an idiot...
While Cundiff said she probably would never use the rhyme again, "I will not tell anyone not to say it."
If you can accept her statement that she didn't know the racist version of the poem, how can you accept the statement above???
The last lines of the racist rhyme, in case anyone here doesn't know is ,
If he hollers,
Make him pay
Fifty dollars
Every day.
After learning the racist version what kind of individual would say that they MIGHT say that poem AGAIN and that they would NOT tell anyone NOT to say it???
posted on January 22, 2004 05:52:02 PM new
I can't agree with that, Pat. I think people are VERY much aware of what might offend a person of another race. So much so that we don't tend to discuss these issues for fear of offending. Eeenie, meenie might have meant something derogatory years ago, but now it's been changed, like a lot of things, to not offend.
posted on January 22, 2004 05:55:56 PM new
plsmith, I did address the body of your post...it's your inherent sense of privelege, your blindness to the insidious ways in which minorities have been and are routinely ground-down that are (part of) the problem.
A solution to the problem? Get over it! Move on with their lives! Quit construing every single little comment as derogatory!
And you call me an idiot?
edited for spelling
__________________________________
"I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to the people who sleep under the very blanket of freedom I provide, and then question the manner in which I provide it. I'd rather you just said 'thank you' and went on your way." - A Few Good Men
[ edited by wgm on Jan 22, 2004 05:57 PM ]
posted on January 22, 2004 06:00:54 PM new
::You folks who so cavalierly dismiss the damage your passive racism does are the problem; not those who bring suits to draw attention to the prevalence -- in this Modern Age -- of people just like you...::
Isn't that horse just a little bit tall for you? Even if she had heard the rhyme she did not use any type of racial slurs in the rhyme she actually used.
I'm not denying that there is a great deal of bigotry in this nation and many institutionalized examples of this was not one of them and it trivializes the real battles.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
posted on January 22, 2004 06:02:36 PM new
Sure, Krafty, the way to stop the insidiousness of racism is to change a few words to historically racist rhymes and sayings and keep right on using them... <insert rolling eye smilie here>
posted on January 22, 2004 06:03:55 PM new
aust - I find the game on auction just as offensive as you do, if not moreso. I was born and raised in the south, and I think the "N word" is disgusting - it shows a definite lack of intelligence by those who use it.
KD - you are correct about the verse. There are some of us that don't think along the lines of racism; and therefore don't associate it as such. I recall saying it for tag and such when I was growing up, and it was "catch a tiger by the toe".
__________________________________
"I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to the people who sleep under the very blanket of freedom I provide, and then question the manner in which I provide it. I'd rather you just said 'thank you' and went on your way." - A Few Good Men
posted on January 22, 2004 06:05:28 PM new
wgm, the tables might just as easily be turned on your indignation: why don't you get over being so offended by what (rightly) offends other people?
posted on January 22, 2004 06:12:52 PM new
plsmith, I happen to be a minority, but it's not something I put on my shoulder every morning when I get up. Life goes on, whether you like it or I like it. The past is the past is the past. No one ever gets ahead by living in the past.
Change comes about by moving forward. Yesterday is called the past because it is over, it is done. Constantly dredging up old arguements doesn't accomplish anything. Always looking for something at which to scream "racism" is pathetic. It is such a disservice to everyone of every race.
(grammatical edits)
__________________________________
"I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to the people who sleep under the very blanket of freedom I provide, and then question the manner in which I provide it. I'd rather you just said 'thank you' and went on your way." - A Few Good Men
[ edited by wgm on Jan 22, 2004 06:13 PM ]
[ edited by wgm on Jan 22, 2004 06:14 PM ]
posted on January 22, 2004 06:19:00 PM new
::If you don't find that comment derogatory to black people then you are uninformed.::
Actually Helen - I found this to be such a ridiculous lawsuit that I shared it with my friend and some of the girls who work forher in the salon when I ran over there to drop off some work and all scoffed at it. It is a black salon and all of those that scoffed were black so I don't think I am all that uninformed.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
[ edited by Fenix03 on Jan 22, 2004 06:20 PM ]
I was responding to wgm...if you check the time, you can see that. I lived in the south and there, as in Texas it's considered racist. It's not a rhyme appropriate to recite on a plane by an employee of an airline.
posted on January 22, 2004 06:26:07 PM new
And maybe, Fenix, those "girls" who scoffed were simply playing the age-old game of delivering the expected response to an outsider...
posted on January 22, 2004 06:31:16 PM new
I have about as much right to judge what is offensive as you do, plsmith.
You bleeding heart liberals are disgusting. You are a disgrace. You sit back in judgement on everything you deem to be unjust, but dare let someone else speak their mind.
No helen, I am not uninformed. I have the ability to let things go and move on from the 50s and 60s (they were actually well before my time). I happen to see the glass half full; therefore am not resolved to sit around bitching and complaining about the glass being half empty. Also, my little boy and his friends chant the little ditty - and it's "sailor" for them because that's how they learned it.
Linda, you wondered why I didn't frequent the RT? This thread and the attacks should make it clear now. All the doom and gloom, half-empty glass (and brains) of some of these posters are just too much - I have better things to do than beat a dead horse
__________________________________
"I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to the people who sleep under the very blanket of freedom I provide, and then question the manner in which I provide it. I'd rather you just said 'thank you' and went on your way." - A Few Good Men
posted on January 22, 2004 06:39:21 PM new
What a bunch of nonsense! To assume everyone should know the root of all saying, rhymes, etc., before they say them, is silly. So what if the rhyme used to mean something derogatory. Lots of things used to be, and still are derogatory. You could even say rhymes are ART and shouldn't be changed or destroyed because it might offend...
posted on January 22, 2004 06:44:46 PM new
I have yet to see anyone who hurls the phrase, "bleeding heart liberal" define it. What does your interpretation of those three words have to do with my being sick and tired of bigoted remarks and outright racism, wgm?
Go ahead and answer if you haven't already left because your views haven't met with unanimous approval...
posted on January 22, 2004 06:46:10 PM new
PLS - those are some pretty big assumtions you made there. One is that these girls would hold their toungue for anyone - I promise you, you don't want to hear what one of the girls called them. The other is that I am an outsider to them. You can have basic differences from people without being an outsider.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
posted on January 22, 2004 06:48:16 PM new
Who said everyone should know the root of all sayings and rhymes, Krafty?
The specific rhyme at issue here is one that has been well known for decades in America, and its potential to offend, no matter how cleverly one substitutes certain words is equally well known.
posted on January 22, 2004 06:52:56 PM new
Pls - you said it. You have made the blanket judgement that all people knew the rhyme as containing the N word, you have ignored that there are other variations and that not everyone heard the same version you did.
Next you are going to be screaming Ring Around the Rosies is sacriledge and disrespectful to the dead but I gaurantee you that 95% people who recited that rhyme have no clue where it came from.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
[ edited by Fenix03 on Jan 22, 2004 06:53 PM ]
