posted on February 1, 2004 01:27:49 PM new
Soldiers, Families Oppose Bush
Casualties Mount Post Saddam
By Kerry Taylor
War Times
2-1-4
President Bush's war in Iraq faces growing opposition from those who are on the front lines: soldiers, their families and veterans, including high-ranking officers.
A bipartisan poll published by Business Week in December showed approval for the president at a mere 36 percent among soldiers, their families and veterans.
"I think the American people were conned into this [war]," said retired Marine Corps Gen. Anthony Zinni, a Bush supporter in 2000. Zinni, who was chief of U.S. operations in the Middle East until three years ago, also charged the administration with failing to plan an occupation that would rebuild Iraq, provide internal stability and advance democracy.
Despite the capture of Saddam Hussein, there has been no let-up in U.S. casualties. As of mid-January, 500 U.S. soldiers have been killed--more than died in the first three years of the Vietnam War. Up to 22,000 more have been evacuated from Iraq for medical reasons. Twenty-one have committed suicide.
LOW TROOP MORALE
The high casualty rate may help explain the low troop morale reported in October by Stars and Stripes, the military newspaper. Nearly one in three of the 2,000 military personnel it surveyed reported that they believed the war had "no value" or "little or no value" at all.
Nearly 50 percent of National Guard personnel and reservists reported low morale. "Reserve members can't possibly keep this pace up," warned Master Sgt. C.J. Nouse, who has spent just four months with his family since Sept. 11, 2001. "With deployments to Bosnia and for homeland defense, our families are continuing to suffer. Does anyone care? This is totally unacceptable. Bring us home or suffer mass exits soon."
It is this concern that led the Pentagon to announce "stop loss" measures prohibiting troops returning from Iraq and Afghanistan from leaving the service for up to 90 days after arriving at their home bases. The military can then decide to keep them in service indefinitely "if needed."
The opposition from those in the military is amplified by the voices of military family members and veterans who oppose the war.
MILITARY FAMILIES ORGANIZE
Larry Syverson, the father of two sons still fighting in Iraq, recently completed his 100th antiwar protest in front of the federal courthouse in Richmond, Va.
Anabel Valencia of Tucson had not seen her soldier-daughter in three years, so in December she decided to visit her in Tikrit, Iraq. The U.S. military denied her entrance to the base, but she won sympathy from Iraqi police Capt. Hussein, who was assigned to stand guard over her. According to the Los Angeles Times, Capt. Hussein said:
"I think it's terrible that the Americans will not let you in to see your beloved daughter.... This is the way they treat their own people! Imagine how they treat us.... We were better off before [the U.S. entered]."
But resistance can come at a cost to GIs and their families.
After Jari Sheese of Indianapolis participated in several peace demonstrations and a Paris television program, her antiwar activities were noted in a general's report. Then her soldier-husband in Iraq was transferred on two hours' notice to a remote base with restricted access to the Internet and telephone. Yet he supports Sheese's continued vocal opposition to the occupation as the only way to end the war and bring him home.
Military family organizations and veterans groups have banded together to launch the Bring Them Home Now campaign, led by Military Families Speak Out (MFSO) and Veterans for Peace. Founded in November 2002, MFSO provides a forum for GI families to express their opposition to the war through press conferences, demonstrations at military bases and peace delegations to Iraq.
The organization also sued the administration for taking the country to war without a congressional declaration. (See www.mfso.org.)
Co-founder Nancy Lessin says more than 1,000 families have joined MFSO. There are also several unofficial military unit websites advocating peace and the return of the troops. (See www.bringhomethe142.org and www.129supportingoursoldiers.com.)
MFSO member Jessica Salamon of Cleveland, whose husband was recently deployed to Iraq, defended her protest work as "the best way that I can think of to show that I do support the troops; I support each and every one of them coming home now. I can't just sit back and make care packages."
- Kerry Taylor is a graduate student at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill and a member of United Electrical Workers Local 150A.
posted on February 1, 2004 02:12:52 PM new
It took the concerted efforts of many to bring attention to and demand a halt to the Viet Nam War. And the media back then showed us the unsanitized version of war's devastation. Nowadays, we have these "mini-wars" -- we go in, realize some "objective" , then declare the war over -- often in less than 100 days, and the media shows us but one very slanted view of the proceedings. But soldiers continue to die. It's happened in Iraq twice now, and in Afghanistan, Kosovo, Somalia -- anywhere we've deployed our military to fight.
Perhaps, in these times, it will take the very military itself to put an end to this no-win brand of modern-day warfare.
I'm taking the liberty of making your links "clickable", Skylite, in the hope that more readers might be encouraged to explore them...
posted on February 1, 2004 04:14:25 PM new
"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem." --Ronald Reagan
"If you believe you can tell me what to think, I believe I can tell you where to go. Not all of us are sheep....."
posted on February 1, 2004 04:18:36 PM new
Right, Bear. And Ronald Reagan was never a Marine. In fact, he made movies during WWII, unlike James Stewart, Clark Gable, and a host of his other more patriotic colleagues who actually served in the military during those critical years...
Edited to note that Ronald Reagan did NOT serve in the military, in any capacity, ever.
posted on February 1, 2004 06:27:43 PM new
PLSMITH: But no one can honestly say that Reonald Reagan didn't "make a difference" anyway.
It's great to have been in the military. But it's not a requirement to be President or even just to make a difference.
And back to the original poster. Why are they whining? Isn't this what they expected when they signed up for the military? And if not, why? Do the Police complain when they are sent out after criminals? Does the fire department cry when they have to put out a fire? Why are these SOLDIERS complaining about having to fight? I've said it before and I'll say it again.
THIS IS THEIR JOB. THEY SIGNED UP FOR THIS!
Fighting in wars is what the military does. Fighting, killing and dying is what they do. It's unfortunate that soldiers are called upon to do their duty. But that is what they are there for. If you don't want to fight, and you don't want to kill or be killed, then what the hell did they sign up for?
The army is a lot more than just free college tuition. It's a promise to fight and die for their country.
There is no draft. There is not one soldier fighting for our country that didn't volunteer. There is not one soldier dying for our country that was forced to go.
And why did these women marry career military people and expect that they would never spend time apart? What were they thinking?
I *DO* think it's about time to pull out of Iraq. It's time to bring them home. But not beause the soldiers are tired.
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Replay Media
Games of all kinds!
posted on February 1, 2004 06:46:36 PM new
"It's great to have been in the military. But it's not a requirement to be President or even just to make a difference."
You're right, Replay. But when Presidents -- be they Ronald Reagan or Bill Clinton -- use militaristic platitudes in order to support their war-mongering, it's disingenuous at best, and outright irresponsible otherwise...
posted on February 1, 2004 07:08:28 PM newRight, Bear. And Ronald Reagan was never a Marine. In fact, he made movies during WWII, unlike James Stewart, Clark Gable, and a host of his other more patriotic colleagues who actually served in the military during those critical years...
PLSmith, I am not a Reagan fan. However I must point out that Reagan did serve in the military during World War II:
"Ronald Wilson Reagan enrolled in a series of home-study Army Extension Courses on 18 March 1935. After completing 14 of the courses, he enlisted in the Army Enlisted Reserve on 29 April 1937, as a Private assigned to Troop B, 332nd Cavalry at Des Moines, Iowa. He was appointed Second Lieutenant in the Officers Reserve Corps of the Cavalry on 25 May 1937. On 18 June 1937 he accepted his Officer's Commission and was assigned to the 323nd Cavalry.
Lieutenant Reagan was ordered to active duty on 19 April 1942. Due to eyesight difficulties, he was classified for limited service only, which excluded him from serving overseas. His first assignment was at the San Francisco Port of Embarkation at Fort Mason, California, as liaison officer of the Port and Transportation Office. Upon the request of the Army Air Force, he applied for a transfer from the Cavalry to the Army Air Force on 15 May 1942; the transfer was approved on 9 June 1942. He was assigned to Army Air Force Public Relations and subsequently to the 1st Motion Picture Unit in Culver City, California. Reagan was promoted to First Lieutenant on 14 January 1943 and was sent to the Provisional Task Force Show Unit of "This Is The Army" at Burbank, California. Following this duty, he returned to the 1st Motion Picture Unit, and on 22 July 1943 was promoted to Captain.
In January 1944, Captain Reagan was ordered to temporary duty in New York City to participate in the opening of the sixth War Loan Drive. He was assigned to the 18th Army Air Force Base Unit, Culver City, California on 14 November 1944, where he remained until the end of the war. On 8 September 1945, he was ordered to report to Fort MacArthur, California, where he was separated from active duty on 9 December 1945.
While on active duty with the 1st Motion Picture Unit and the 18th Army Air Force Base Unit, Captain Reagan served as Personnel Officer, Post Adjutant, and Executive Officer. By the end of the war, his units had produced some 400 training films for the Army Air Force.
Reagan's Reserve Commission automatically terminated on 1 April 1953."
He served where he could.
******
Censorship, like charity, should begin at home; but unlike charity, it should end there --Clare Booth Luce
posted on February 1, 2004 07:22:47 PM new
Replay,
Many young people join the armed forces and marines because they need a job and they join when there is no war under consideration. It would be wonderful if they knew beforehand that they would be fighting an illegal, unnecessary, dangerous war for a commander without a plan, but that's not the case. Unlike the firefighters and the police officers that you mention who are well trained and needed by the public, these guys find themselves in a foreign country, unwanted by the people of Iraq, fighting a war without an exit plan and a war with no end in sight. The most horrific aspect though is that now they know, as we know that the entire operation was predicated on lies. They find themselves fighting a war with no justification as their lives are jeopardized and their friends are wounded and killed daily.
posted on February 1, 2004 07:36:37 PM new
It didn't seem like Reagan could clearly differentiate between the parts he had played and reality even while he was in office. I suspect his dementia was a long time slowly coming on long before the symptoms were so obvious they could not be denied.
At least he didn't stage aircraft carrier landings and jump out of a simple commuter aircraft in a flight suit playing like it was a combat aircraft like Bush. If only his ego had been big enough to make him decide he could probably do a carrier landing as well as the next guy......Splat. Wouldn't that have made a Photo Op.
posted on February 1, 2004 07:44:44 PM new
Thank you Helen for your usual anti-american rehtoric and slapping in the face ALL the brave men and women you are not even fit to clean the bathroom for.
People of your ilk are the exact reason some military members are whining...
Replay has it exactly right and if you had ever served this great country of ours instead of constantly putting it down... you would know that ALL training done is toward one thing and one thing only... BATTLE.
Of course a know nothing, do nothing except piss and moan; such as yourself, wouldn't know that.
posted on February 1, 2004 07:46:37 PM new
Bunni: Private in 1937 to Captain in 1943. Isn't that unusually fast to climb that high?
Helen, here we go again:
"when there is no war under consideration"
Who would ever join the military without thinking they wouldn't go to war?
"... an illegal, unnecessary, dangerous war for a commander without a plan"
Irrelevant in this argument. Their job is to follow orders. They aren't being ordered to commit war crimes, they have no grounds to disobey orders. The term "illegal" is arguable. "Unnecessary" is simply an opinion and "dangerous" is pretty obviously always the case in a war.
"fighting a war without an exit plan and a war with no end in sight." Says who? Do you really expect them to announce a withdrawal date? Then the bad guys just have to lie low until that date. Why give them hope? Do you really think we are going to stay over there forever? It hasn't even been a year yet. How many in-and-out-in-under-a-year wars can you name? WWII was very clear cut, and it still took from 4-6 years depening on which country you are in.
"they know, as we know that the entire operation was predicated on lies." We DON'T know this. I just love the way liberals always state that this war was about the WMDs. I thought the goal was to remove Saddam, who kept ignoring the UN requirements. I thought it was to remove a mass murderer from power. I thought it was to remove a dictator who had already USED WMDs in the past against his own people.
Clinton thought Saddam had WMDs. Blair thought Saddam had WMDs. Bush thought Saddam had WMDs. Maybe they were destroyed. Maybe they were moved. Maybe they really never existed at all. This does not mean the war was unjustified or based on lies. There was a lot more to this war than WMDs.
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Replay Media
Games of all kinds!
posted on February 1, 2004 08:18:40 PM new
Yes, Replay I've been down this road with lindak. I'm surprised that you two are so similar in your opinions.
It's late here. To bring you up to speed would take so long and I'm just not interested.
posted on February 1, 2004 09:00:22 PM new
Replay, since Helen's gone to bed, I'll take up this one point with your post, which states:
"I thought the goal was to remove Saddam, who kept ignoring the UN requirements."
If ignoring U.N. sanctions is grounds for going to war, then we -- the United States -- must be at the top of your list of countries that ought to be attacked. We routinely tell the U.N. to fluck off when we don't like its directives.
So, is the U.N. the barometer we use to go to war?
(And pardon me in advance if I don't reply to you right away; I'm a bit tired from all the hoopla today... )
posted on February 2, 2004 07:11:27 AM new
Of course not. The UN is a joke.
But if you want to use the WMD point as an excuse not to have gone to war, then I'm gonna use the UN point to say we should. Both are pretty weak arguments.
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Replay Media
Games of all kinds!
posted on February 3, 2004 07:04:32 AM newThe UN is a joke
Why did Colin Powell go to the UN and lie to them?
Do you seriously think Bush and his cronies can use the UN as an excuse for proceeding with a preemptive war that cut short the UN weapons inspections?
Where's the WOMD?
Gee, there were no stockpiles of WOMD.
Oops.
"In a wide-ranging interview Mr Blix, who retires in three weeks' time, accused:
The Bush administration of leaning on his inspectors to produce more damning language in their reports;
"Some elements" of the Pentagon of being behind a smear campaign against him; and Washington of regarding the UN as an "alien power" which they hoped would sink into the East river."
