posted on March 20, 2004 06:25:53 PM new
Posted by Leo Lacayo
Saturday, March 20, 2004
There is no greater supporter of immigrants in this country than me. I have dedicated 20 years to working with immigrants. It all started with my days as the educational coordinator for a community-based organization providing employment and language skills to recently arrived immigrants at the height of the Central American conflicts of the early 1980's. Let me affirm in the axiomatic: THE GREATEST GIFT YOU CAN GIVE AN IMMIGRANT to the U.S. IS THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE!
Having said that, I must tell you that I have had the most incredible experiences with San Francisco city and county employees who simply do not speak the language. It is not that I am phobic of any kind, it is simply stating the truth. It is sometimes hard and many times impossible to discern what some foreign born employees of San Francisco are saying.
A few years ago I had a tremendous problem trying to pay my property taxes. The city had made a mistake and I wanted to get it resolved. I made ten phone calls later and paid three visits to City Hall. Why? I simply could not understand what the city employees were saying nor could they understand me. Now before you write me off, I have ten years experience as an ESL teacher (English as a Second Language). I have founded and directed language schools and have no trouble communicating in general.
A city inspector once tried to fine me $ 1,500 for garbage that had been dumped on my property, even though we produced evidence to the effect. The problem was that he lacked the proper communication skills to understand the problem. Beleive it or not, I had to go to arbitration just to find someone who spoke English! I am not making this up.
There should be extensive language testing for oral and written skills to all city employees. Those who do not pass should be give courses--and time--to bring their skills up to par, or be fired. It's just that simple. To do your job as a public servant you must be able to understand what your bosses--the people--want of you. If you cannot handle that, you should not be in that particular position.
In an age of Ebonics, political correctness, and the mumbo jumbo of phony bilingualism, the reality is that to triumph in this country and indeed in this world you need ENGLISH! Ninety precent of the advanced professional texts used in Latin America are in English. China, which is surpassing us in economic progress, has the highest number of English language speakers in the entire world.
In short we need MORE ENGLISH, not less, and we have to demand this from our civil servants. English needs to be taught, offered, and supported by all of us if we want to improve education. That is why the majority of first generation immigrants want their children taught in English.
'We have dispatched Dr. David Kay...to search for the bio-warfare agents we believe hidden in Senator Kerry's forehead. If Senator Kerry has used botox as part of a wrinkle enrichment program, he is in violation of UN Resolution 752. Upon receiving Dr. Kay's report, the weapons of mass destruction that Senator Kerry so adamantly insists do not exist...may well be above his very nose.'" --Dick Cheney when asked whether John Kerry has had Botox treaments
posted on March 20, 2004 06:41:46 PM new
While I can agree with this bear the sad part is that no one cares. They all be screaming about their "rights" even if they are not here on any legal basis to start with.
Another good case of political correctness gone south.
English is or should be the language of the country but there is nothing in law that states that in most states.
Give it another 20 to 30 years and it will be anything and everything but English.
posted on March 20, 2004 07:50:40 PM new
"English is or should be the language of the country"
No. America does not have an official language and that is a good thing. Those people in SF have the right to speak any language they want. If they choose not to learn English that should be perfectly withing their rights.
However, there is no way in hell they should be given jobs dealing with the public if they aren't qualified. Is speaking English a qualification? Maybe not if you are a gardener's assistant. It is if you have to deal with the public, either in person or on the telephone.
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We do not stop playing because we grow old. We grow old because we stop playing -- Anonymous
posted on March 20, 2004 09:30:08 PM new
I agree with Replay. This country does not have an official language. It has a defacto one, which since not officially mandated, might change little by little. I see no reason at all why it is unreasonable to require that English be spoken as a condition of employment, if the employer feels it's necessary.
By the way, it should be "S.F. City Employees no hablan English."
No hablo is "I don't speak". Hablan is the present tense plural form of the verb hablar - to speak.
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posted on March 21, 2004 06:56:12 AM newNo. America does not have an official language and that is a good thing. Those people in SF have the right to speak any language they want. If they choose not to learn English that should be perfectly withing their rights
That was a mistake that the early founders never thought off. After all I do not think that they could of foreseen that so many years later that there would be such a huge influx of non speaking English people.
Language is a glue that binds a people or nation as one. Without it it can tear the same apart.
What language they wish to speak at home or at a gathering with friends is up to them but on the job there should only be one language. IMHO
posted on March 21, 2004 08:31:57 AM new
While English may not be the official language of the United States it is the language spoken by the majority of the residents, correct?
In my opinion, if people are going to live in the United States they should speak English fluently. If I would go to France or Germany and live there, I would be expected to speak French or German because that is the native language. I wouldn't expect the French or Germans to bend over backward and try to understand English just because I am an American and speak English.
Why should we allow foreigners that decide to move to America to continue to speak their native languages if they are going to be American citizens?
Impeach Bush
Marriage is a Human Right not a Heterosexual Privledge.
Bigotry and hate will not be tolerated.
posted on March 21, 2004 08:44:48 AM new
here we have press 1 for english and press 2 for spanish.
it is to their advantage that the immigrants speak english,just think of the money they are mot making when they cant sell to the mainstream folks.
but older immigrants do have a hard time learning,so dont be so harsh on them,afterall old dogs dont do as well learning new tricks.
many of them come to be with their children.
but i agree,they should not hold jobs dealing with public.
-sig file -------we eat to live,not live to eat.
Benjamin Franklin
posted on March 21, 2004 09:08:10 AM new
::Why should we allow foreigners that decide to move to America to continue to speak their native languages if they are going to be American citizens? ::
What are you going to do? Arrest anyone caught speaking a foreign language? What if they are speaking accented english? I would venture to say that most people in government employment have a good handle on the english language, just not on the accent and for much of the general public, when they hear a foreign accent, they assume they are going to be hearing a foreign language and they stop really listening. You have no idea how many times I have heard some say "I don't speak spanish" to someone that asked them a question in englsh but with a heavy accent.
Should we have an official accent too?
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If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
posted on March 21, 2004 12:14:15 PM new
The point being, if you're in a position in which you interact with the public, a public that the MAJORITY speak ENGLISH, you need to speak that language (ENGLISH) fluently.
'We have dispatched Dr. David Kay...to search for the bio-warfare agents we believe hidden in Senator Kerry's forehead. If Senator Kerry has used botox as part of a wrinkle enrichment program, he is in violation of UN Resolution 752. Upon receiving Dr. Kay's report, the weapons of mass destruction that Senator Kerry so adamantly insists do not exist...may well be above his very nose.'" --Dick Cheney when asked whether John Kerry has had Botox treaments
I posed that question not to have anyone that doesn't speak English arrested or punished. It was more of a statement. Foreigners should realize that in America English is the language whether it is the "official language" or not. We should not be bending over backwards to accommodate foreign languages just because they do not want to learn English - ie press one for English, press two for Spanish, press three for French etc.
If we keep accommodating people, it will only harm them in the long run and also the businesses that employ them.
Impeach Bush
Marriage is a Human Right not a Heterosexual Privledge.
Bigotry and hate will not be tolerated.
posted on March 21, 2004 03:09:38 PM new
Vast Majority of customer service ceners are bilingual
Fastest growing demographic in the US is Latino
Largest market share advertising increase is spanish
I think it's time that we english speakers accept that that this is becoming a nation with two major laguages..... take heart... at least the second isn't french
Lanuage decisions in this nation will not be based on morality or tradition. It's about money. More and more major corporations and manufacturers are creating spanish language and themed marketing campaigns. They are reaching out to the a vastly untapped market in search of new income and as those types of moves become more frequent and more visable the dual languages of this nation will become more "accepted". You can fight the tide, you can rail and scream and be as morally indignant as you wish, just as people did against many of the things we today think of as the norm but times changes and society evolves.
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If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
[ edited by Fenix03 on Mar 21, 2004 03:09 PM ]
posted on March 21, 2004 03:32:07 PM new
Trai Said:
"That was a mistake that the early founders never thought off. After all I do not think that they could of foreseen that so many years later that there would be such a huge influx of non speaking English people."
You're kidding, right? You mean back when the Spanish literally owned the southwest and the French owned the North and the Germans were all over the Midwest? That's not even considering the Native America/Indian languages that no one cared enough to learn.
If anything, there were probably FEWER English speakers relative to the total population back then.
My point is that the founders were well aware of the situation, and felt that FREEDOM actually meant FREEDOM, not public convenience.
But still, I think putting a non-English speaker in a public position is just stupid.
I also think that companies who outsource their phone support to India should actually have to LISTEN to those people speak first. Whenever I have to call my cable cable company I half expect them to ask if I want a Slushy!
Also, nothing ticks me off more than when I hear a family of immigrants chattering and looking at me. I know they are always either planning to steal something or telling each other that I smell funny... I just can never figure out which is which
This is the USA, and it's only fair to learn to speak English... But it's NOT and should NOT be a REQUIREMENT.
"This year you learn the official State language. Next year, you convert to the official religion of the USA, followed by the state-sponsored TV networks, and the year after that, you can vote for the red Democrat or the Blue Democrat!"
Freedom = As few rules as possible.
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We do not stop playing because we grow old. We grow old because we stop playing -- Anonymous
posted on March 21, 2004 05:16:06 PM new
I agree with replay. I do not feel that English be madated but believe in many jobs it should or can be required including state and federal positions.
Friends don't let friends vote Republican!
posted on March 21, 2004 08:16:42 PM new
I seriously doubt that the city government could not require it's employees to speak engilsh. The fact that they don't will harm them in time as much as it harms the people who fail to learn the language.
Detroit ignored what it's citizens wanted and needed and now it has less than a million people where once it had about two million. They can't fund basic services - can't even keep the street lights on. The people just left in frustration.
posted on March 21, 2004 08:41:57 PM new
I have dealt with many city employees in San Francisco over the years. Some spoke English with a thick accent and were difficult to understand at times but none the less they both spoke, read and wrote in english.
In my town (not San Francisco) but about 20 miles to the north two of the postal clerks I deal with daily have pronounced accents and sometimes I have to listen very carefully but none the less they speak english. Even within this country with the various regional accents many of us don't understand many others of us but none the less we speak english.
My wife who was born in England speaks yet another dialect and is difficult for many to understand as they are not used to hearing English spoken by an English woman.
I only add this to this thread as my instints tell me this article which was quoted is bogus.
Friends don't let friends vote Republican!
posted on March 21, 2004 09:38:39 PM new
If it came up for a vote....[it won't] I would support legislation to make English the official language.
A while back we discussed this same issue. One article was about a firechief who couldn't communicate with his men, because many could not understand English very well. The fire chief felt it presented a safety hazzard when they needed to call them back from an out-of-control burn for their own safety.
Also, as a tax payer I resent the additional cost of printing every government publication in six different languages [in CA].
posted on March 22, 2004 04:20:54 AM new
But then when you have an official government sanctioned language you always get into the crap you have in Quebec where the law is used to harrass shop keepers about how big the letters are on their signs and making it illegal to put up signs in another language.
There are a lot of shops here that have signs up not in Spanish but in Chinese, Korean, Hindi,Arabic and other languages. It really does no harm. I rather enjoy the variety even if I can't read them.
