posted on July 2, 2004 06:25:41 PM new
I have alot of respect for Ralph Nader, at least as a consumer advocate. I've supported him in the past, especially since I was a Chapter Chair for the PIRG office at Florida State University and a Student Senator back many years ago.
I was at his 10,000 person rally 3 years ago here in Portland, I contributed to his campaign along with other Greens. I even voted for Ralph the last time around. I agree with him that the two party system is a disaster, and that John Kerry would only be a small patch on a huge crack that is about to break the dam. Yet, I have become quite frustrated with Ralph in recent months, particularly this last week when he came to Oregon. In Oregon, you can get onto the Presidential ballot by having 1000 people sign a petition within a 3 hour period. News reports claimed that Ralph received help from a few Conservative organizations through phoning their constituents and members to rally to get Ralph on the ballot. Ironically, Ralph seems to truly have his ego out of wack. He didn't even bother to simply look the other way, but voiced his acceptance of their help.
I am not a Democrat, as many anti-gumbo debaters may think. I am a registered Green, but am more Independent than not. I am fiscally conservative, but also socially liberal. I am against the war, and like Michael Moore, would do anything to remove Bush from power. He is a disgrace to America, and you can argue with me all you want, but the fact that the Conservatives are now taking aim at Kerry by helping Nader is downright sick. Even more so is that Nader is accepting their help. I truly believed in Nader's agenda to bring in a 3rd party, because America truly nees a 3rd party to affect change. Instead, he is shunning more people for his ego.
[ edited by rustygumbo on Jul 2, 2004 06:28 PM ]
posted on July 2, 2004 08:44:17 PM new
Rusty, I agree with your thoughts. Do I know if Kerry will be a great leader? I wish I knew. One thing I know for sure is Kerry will be light years ahead of the Bush bunch we have now. Bush and his bunch will say and do anything for votes. They use Religion, they use Nader, they use lies, Bush and his bunch are failed leaders and will stoop to anything for votes. Its DISGUSTING.
AMERICA REALLY NEEDS TO OUTSOURCE THE BUSH GOVERNMENT BEFORE ITS TO LATE
posted on July 2, 2004 08:51:42 PM new
I haven't read of pro-Bush groups helping Nader out.
But what I have read is the Republicans feel he has a right to run as a third party candidate.
What Nader himself has said is it's the demo who are *harrassing* him in a lot of states where he's been working to get on their ballots.....and he's none to happy about it.
So...maybe if it is true some are helping him...and he's accepting that help...it might just be because he believes they're more supportive of our election system...and the right of any and all to run for office.
posted on July 3, 2004 12:55:38 AM new
Here you go....an article from today. Read Naders own words on how he views what the democratic party is doing to him.
posted on July 3, 2004 03:03:49 AM new
Linda - you and I both know that no party is going to help someone they feel may endanger their candidate. The democrats rightly feel that he split the vote last time and handed Bush the ictory and I really do not believe for a second that you could keep a straight face while saying that you think the Republican support his efforts in what is proving right now to be a very close race if they were not hoping that he would have the same effect again.
You think they would be supporting him if their polls showe that he could be gaining republican votes in causing them losses in important swing states?
We are both adults here and I think by now that we can agree that warm hearted political philanthropy is not a trait known to either party if it does not directly benefit them.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
posted on July 5, 2004 09:26:05 PM new
rustygumbo - Thank you for the url's. So the Reform Party and the other conservative groups listed on Alan Colmes [Fox News] url are working to help get Nader on the ballots.
They are not Republican sanctioned groups as I thought was implied. But none-the-less they are supporting Nader's right to get on the ballots. As I do.
fenix - According to Nader's stats he received votes from 21-25% of Republicans that would have gone to Bush in 2000, had he [Nader] not been running.
He received 38-41% of votes that would have gone to gore.
The rest he states would not have voted at all. So it's not like had he not run, *all* the votes that he got would have automatically gone to gore. They wouldn't have.
Plus another factor I think the left doesn't look at or mention is the other states where the Republicans believe, again had Nader not ran, would have gone to Bush also. Like I believe it was around 17,000-20,000 that went to Buchanan in 2000. Would they have voted for gore? doubtful. And then there's the other states like Iowa, NM, Oregon and Wisconsin where Naders votes might have gone both ways too....not necessarily ONLY to gore.
Imo, we'll never know who his being on the 2000 ticket hurt the most.
But I strongly hold the position that this country needs to give easier access to third party canditates, put less restrictions on what it takes to quality to get on the ballot AND those who earn a certain percentage point should also be able to join the nation debates....not just the two parties.
And unlike in 2000, the democrats are currently working against Nader's right to get on the ballots. To me and many others....they're doing all they can do to restrict his Constitutional right to run for office and it only makes THEM look bad....afraid of competition from one who sides mostly with their policies.
Re-elect President Bush!!
edited to change Bush to gore.
[ edited by Linda_K on Jul 5, 2004 10:12 PM ]
posted on July 5, 2004 09:38:52 PM new
linda says, "afraid of competition from one who sides mostly with their policies.""
linda, that's the stupid part. Nader's "alleged"policies are mostly the same as the Democrats. So instead of helping the Dems (the party that would help him) get elected
he siphons votes away. Now, Nader is not stupid and surely he can see this so I believe he is being bought by the Republicans. So you bet I hope the Dems can stop him from running.
In a perfect world yes, anyone should be able to run for president but in the real world (the one we live in) it ain't going to work. What would be the limit? 3....5...10....12...100 candidates...what a farce!
posted on July 5, 2004 10:44:35 PM new
The Italian Parliament comes to mind....
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Belief? What do I believe in? I believe in sun. In rock. In the dogma of the sun and the doctrine of the rock. I believe in blood, fire, woman, rivers, eagles, storms, drums, flutes, banjos, and broom-tailed horses....
Edward Abbey
