posted on July 12, 2004 12:13:46 PM new
It is always claimed that it is just my "opinion" regarding whether those claiming to be "christian" actually believe the core tenets of that faith. Below is an article showing that teens who claim to be christians are just what I said they were- the great majority couldn't even be christians based on their beliefs.
While I haven't seen any recent surveys regarding adults, the results are the same. While many publicly claim to be "christians", when pressed on the basic tements of christian orthodoxy, they aren't christians at all.
Christian Teens? Not Very.
Many hold mushy beliefs antithetical to the creed.
BY DALE BUSS
Friday, July 9, 2004 12:01 a.m. EDT
When I'm teaching Sunday school, I'm encouraged by what I hear from the teenagers at my evangelical Christian church in suburban Detroit. They seem to understand--and, more important, to believe--the bedrock tenets that will help them hew to orthodoxy throughout their lives and make them salt and light in the world.
But the hard numbers say otherwise. It turns out that, while they may profess the faith and indeed love Jesus, the vast majority of Christian teenagers in this country actually hold beliefs fundamentally antithetical to the creed. The forces of moral relativism and "tolerance" have gotten to them in a big way. In fact, some leaders believe that mushy doctrine among the younger generation ranks as the No. 1 crisis facing American Christendom today.
About one-third of American teenagers claim they're "born again" believers, according to data gathered over the past few years by Barna Research Group, the gold standard in data about the U.S. Protestant church, and 88% of teens say they are Christians. About 60% believe that "the Bible is totally accurate in all of its teachings." And 56% feel that their religious faith is very important in their life.
Yet, Barna says, slightly more than half of all U.S. teens also believe that Jesus committed sins while he was on earth. About 60% agree that enough good works will earn them a place in heaven, in part reflecting a Catholic view, but also flouting Protestantism's central theme of salvation only by grace. About two-thirds say that Satan is just a symbol of evil, not really a living being. Only 6% of all teens believe that there are moral absolutes--and, most troubling to evangelical leaders, only 9% of self-described born-again teens believe that moral truth is absolute.
"When you ask even Christian kids, 'How can you say A is true as well as B, which is the antithesis of A?,' their typical response is, 'I'm not sure how it works, but it works for me,'" says George Barna, president of the Ventura, Calif.-based research company. "It's personal, pragmatic and fairly superficial."
Some commentators produce even more startling statistics on the doctrinal drift of America's youth. Ninety-one percent of born-again teenagers surveyed a few years ago proclaimed that there is no such thing as absolute truth, says the Rev. Josh McDowell, a Dallas-based evangelist and author. More alarmingly, that number had risen quickly and steadily from just 52% of committed Christian kids in 1992 who denied the existence of absolute truth. A slight majority of professing Christian kids, Mr. McDowell says, also now say that the bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ never occurred.
"There's a greater disconnect now than ever in the history of the church in America between what a Christian young person says they are and what they actually believe," says Mr. McDowell, who has ministered mainly to youth for more than 30 years. "Christianity is based on truth; Jesus said, 'I am the truth.' But you have an overwhelming majority even of Christian kids saying there is no absolute truth."
Catholics have noticed the trend as well. A few weeks ago, in fact, Pope John Paul II specifically warned several U.S. bishops about the "soulless vision of life" that seemed to be overtaking America, urging them to "confront directly the widespread spirit of agnosticism and relativism which has cast doubt on reason's ability to know the truth," especially among youth.
Indeed, the consequences of this theological implosion now pervade the thoughts and actions of believing teenagers, following the moral breakdown of the broader American culture. Here's one practical example: Only 10% of Christian teens believe that music piracy is morally wrong, according to a recent Barna survey, not all that different from the 6% of their non-Christian peers who feel the same way.
Then extrapolate the situation to other possible big-picture results. Nearly 60% of evangelical Christian teenagers now say that all religious faiths teach equally valid truths, according to Mr. McDowell. It's bad enough that they seem to have been co-opted by relativism from within our culture and even from within the church and family. But it's even more disconcerting to realize that we're relying on this generation for the future defense of Judeo-Christian civilization against the highly motivated forces of militant Islam.
Perhaps it's counterintuitive to believe this problem is as severe as that outlined by Messrs. Barna and McDowell. After all, we're told that spirituality is de rigueur among youths these days and that Christianity is right up there. But this zeitgeist largely reflects a pseudo-faith that is fed by a steady diet of pop-culture feints, from the allegorical "Lord of the Rings" movies to the T-shirt that recently adorned Pamela Anderson saying, "Jesus is my homeboy."
The kids in my Sunday School class really do understand that. It's their peers I'm worried about.
posted on July 12, 2004 01:03:36 PM new
A) You're talking about teenagers. They don't know WHAT they believe. Ask them again next week and their opinion will change.
B) I'd blame this on the public school system and their standards of indoctrination (not education).
They teach extreme tolerance, and that there are no true rights and wrongs. The church (ANY church) teaches that their beliefs are morally correct, and that certain behaviors are wrong. According to what the children are taught, there is no such thing as WRONG. Everything has to be politically correct. Just for an example- Show me a public school where they teach the homosexuality is wrong. They probably exist, but they sure aren't common.
Which brings me to a new point I've been considering recently...
Everyone is always going on about seperation of church and state. Shouldn't they also be screaming about seperation of School & state?
The majority of public school teaches are union members and liberals. Schoolkids are NOT taught to question what they are told. How can we expect kids to grow up to be reasonably educated with that system?
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We do not stop playing because we grow old. We grow old because we stop playing -- Anonymous
posted on July 12, 2004 01:05:57 PM new
"from the allegorical "Lord of the Rings" movies"
I've heard this before. Can someone explain it? I think it's probably the best series of books ever written, but I'll be danged if I can see anything reflecting on Christian beliefs.
I know they've debated the WWII similarities for years, but I just don't see the religious aspects.
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We do not stop playing because we grow old. We grow old because we stop playing -- Anonymous
posted on July 12, 2004 01:17:13 PM newI'd blame this on the public school system and their standards of indoctrination (not education).
Children are in school only 35 hours per week. Their parents have 77 hours per week (when 8 hours per day for sleeping are excluded) To indoctrinate their children with their personal beliefs/religion.
I would say that it is the parents who are at "fault" if their children don't believe just as they do.
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We are not afraid to entrust the American people with unpleasant facts, foreign ideas, alien philosophies, and competitive values. For a nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people. -- John F. Kennedy
posted on July 12, 2004 01:44:33 PM new
I would say that it is the parents who are at "fault" if their children don't believe just as they do.
I don't necessarily believe this is a bad thing. Parents should give their children the necessary teachings in right vs wrong. However at some point in time the children will be old enough to make up their own mind on what they feel is right or wrong. Are the parents still at "fault" because their child no longer has their believes - no. The child must be liable for his or her own actions and should be able to defend their position from this point forward.
Let's have a BBQ, Texas style, ROAST BUSH
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All Things Just Keep Getting Better
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We the people, in order to form a more perfect Union....
.....one Nation indivisible, With Liberty and Justice for ALL.
posted on July 12, 2004 02:48:29 PM new
One of my daughter's teachers once cornered her on an attendance falsehood and, upon getting the truth, told my daughter, "Don't worry, your father won't punish you for telling the truth." Hahahahahaha, WRONG! The falsehood was to allow the school to collect payment for attendance during her absence to go to Disneyland with the family. She was eight at the time and we had an in depth discussion on truth, white lies, AND FAMILY VALUES. She was eight and had been to Disneyland eight times. Her punishment? I never took her to Disneyland again. She went again when she graduated from high school.
You have to fight the attempt by public schools to dictate family values. They do not understand where to draw the line in their teaching. The vacuum left by the preponderance of ignorant parents on this subject invites these PC knee-jerks to take over this crucial role. This is why teen-agers have dual and conflicting opinions. The PC puke their teachers are instilling AT PUBLIC SCHOOLS is often directly contradictory to what their church is teaching. The solution? When I am at church this is correct. When I am at school this is correct. No wonder they are confused about basics like sexuality and identity. Gee, who will I be today? Well, where will I be?
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You know...the best way to defeat a liberal is to let them speak.
posted on July 12, 2004 07:50:57 PM newA) You're talking about teenagers. They don't know WHAT they believe. Ask them again next week and their opinion will change.
The parents will produce almost the same results.
The parents when pressed on the orthodxy tenets of christianity will be almost as un-christian as the teenagers in their beliefs.
And this situation is not a modern example, it has been the same throughout history.
When pressed on the contradictions and "uncomfortable" tenets of their religous "belief", christians prove not to be so christian.
posted on July 13, 2004 07:02:39 AM new
It's not directly religious teachings in school. It secular stuff that leaks over into all parts of their education.
"What public school teaches that Jesus comitted sins while on earth ? "
A) Nobody's perfect.
B) We all make mistakes.
C) He was after all a criminal who was wanted by the law
"What public school teaches that good works get you into heaven ? "
About the only time you'll even hear Heaven mentioned is in relation discipline. "If you want to go to heaven, you need to be good."
"What public school teaches that Satan is a symbol and not a living being ? "
The school I went to taught that there were no ghosts, no demons, no supernatural beings at all. Logically, there isn't a devil either.
"What public school teaches that moral truth is not absolute ? "
All of them. It's called DEBATE and/or Political Correctness. We all can think of dozens of examples where someone does wrong and it's justified as OK. Extramarital Sex? The President did it. Lying to the public? Bush did it. Marriage is for a man & a woman... Oops, no it's not. With all the flip-flopping that goes on there are few absolutes.
And I've gotten into the "Orthodox Beliefs" thing with you before and you don't listen. I'm not going there again with you.
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We do not stop playing because we grow old. We grow old because we stop playing -- Anonymous
posted on July 13, 2004 07:10:46 AM new
ah.... nope. nevermind....I beat this horse a few times before and he never got up....
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Beware the man of one book.
- Thomas Aquinas
posted on July 13, 2004 11:23:03 AM newAnd I've gotten into the "Orthodox Beliefs" thing with you before and you don't listen. I'm not going there again with you.
That's because you always lose the argument.
Assuming arguendo that the public schools teach ideas in opposition to religion, then what you seem to be saying is that when students are presented with competing ideas and choose the secular position, we should blame the public schools?
It seems to me that in the public market place of ideas, religion loses. That is why torture, murder, explusion, were used to convert people to christianity.
