posted on July 28, 2004 07:08:51 PM new
I'm not trying to balk anyone's religion, but have any of you really wondered about God and if the one God theory makes sense?
posted on July 28, 2004 07:17:17 PM new
If there was a God that created heaven and earth and all mankind.
It's doubtful it was a bunch of Gods in a think tank.
posted on July 28, 2004 07:18:21 PM new
Deep down, I think we're all right.
In the Bible, OT, is the story of the Tower of Babel. If I remember correctly, everyone spoke the same language, etc. Then for some reason, God sent everyone off speaking different languages to the ends of the earth.
Now, (still with me?), all religions basically agree that you should "live right"-
no murdering, no stealing, no lying, etc. And that the world was created by a supreme being(s) that knew all and were superior to us. Maybe everybody's right!
posted on July 28, 2004 08:45:25 PM new
Nero, I think I was just made that way. Even though I feel pretty strongly about my own convictions on most subjects, there's always someone out there with a way of thinking or a totally different idea that makes me question my beliefs. I'm not sure we'll ever know what the supreme truth is about God, so I agree with Twig that everyone's right. You (Nero) talked about a universal energy (in so many words) that I've often thought about myself. It's just interesting, the thought of God, the being and IF "he's" a being and if he's the head honcho or is he just a part of a bigger thing like we are. (I'm trying to keep my questions away from the religious aspects.)
posted on July 28, 2004 08:53:28 PM new
I have a question about God. Does a beleif in God have to have anything to do with religion?? Can you believe in God and not include a religion in your beleif??
Ed to add; and if you beleive in more than one God wouldn't that belief mean that you do in fact include religion{s} in your different Gods??
[ edited by yellowstone on Jul 28, 2004 09:01 PM ]
posted on July 28, 2004 09:54:49 PM new
Personal belief in a creator or creators, god or gods if you will, doesn't necessarily require adherence to a set of dogma, a "religion". Religion at it's best can provide one with a path, an opening, a glimpse of the divine. At it's worst, it can be a deadening of the spirit, an iron padlock on both rational thought and spiritual insight.
God or gods?...irrelevant, doesn't matter a bit one way or t'other.
___________________________________
Beware the man of one book.
- Thomas Aquinas
posted on July 29, 2004 01:47:17 AM new
Kraft, I do believe in an energy. Have you ever read anything by Caroline Myss? (I think I am probably spelling her name wrong.) But the one thing I liked about her books was she said in effect, you might think this is all hokey, but if you find one thing that hits you, take it and disregard the rest if you have to. So I think what I got out of it is, whatever you decide to believe in, that belief will work its way into an energy from your concentration and being. Even if its all subconscious. So everything else manifests from there. Whether it's God, or a rock, or even just yourself that you put your faith in, its the process of belief that utimately alters your perception of what creates or guides your decision on anything that really manifests for you. ::shrug:: Thats my take.
posted on July 29, 2004 04:00:27 AM new
yellowstone
Does a beleif in God have to have anything to do with religion?? Can you believe in God and not include a religion in your beleif??
No, to the first question and yes to the second.
Cheryl
. . .if you still try to defend the infamies and horrors perpetrated by that Antichrist- I really believe he is Antichrist- I will have nothing more to do with you and you are no longer my friend.. . - War and Peace, Tolstoy
posted on July 29, 2004 04:47:19 AM new
Cheryl, I really dont think you can have a believe in God, if you have no bases or foundation to pull it from.
Its like me saying yes, I believe in Allah..but I have no idea what the religion of Allah teaches...or what is it? Without a foundation of religion I think one does tend to think God is just floating around in the air or up in the clouds, but he/she/it has nothing to do with realistic living.
posted on July 29, 2004 05:00:29 AM new
Assuming for the sake of argument there is a "GOD" with limitless omnipotent power would this "GOD" necessarily wish to be worshiped or would "GOD'S" ego have grown beyond the need for human adulation?
Hindu's believe in many Gods both male and female which is as reasonable as anything else. My wife is Hindu. We have statues of Ganesh, Siva, Buddha and Kali in the house and on the gardens around the house.
posted on July 29, 2004 08:50:35 AM new
Profe said;
Religion at it's best can provide one with a path, an opening, a glimpse of the divine
Does this not denote information coming from an earthly being?? Herein lies my arguement with religion. In order for your statement to be true wouldn't that earthly being have to have first hand and actual visual knowledge of the divine, or God??
Nero said;
Cheryl, I really dont think you can have a believe in God, if you have no bases or foundation to pull it from.
Does the foundation have to be religion?? Just look up in the sky at night and view the grandeur of the universe. If that's not enough then go look at the Hubble images. Or on a smaller scale look at the complexities on our own planet. I just cant beleive that all this came to be by chance but I also beleive that religion has nothing to do with it.
So, therefore this leads me to another question; Can you search for God in a scientific manner?? I beleive that religion gets in the way of science and clouds the search.
posted on July 29, 2004 09:35:20 AM new
I believe there is only one God. [I liked the think the think-tank comment ]
yellowstone asked: Does this not denote information coming from an earthly being??
I believe it does, yes.
Herein lies my arguement with religion. In order for your statement to be true wouldn't that earthly being have to have first hand and actual visual knowledge of the divine, or God??
Yes. And most religions share a belief that did happen in their past history.
I really dont think you can have a believe in God, if you have no bases or foundation to pull it from. I agree to a point. One who has had no religious training can start to question the 'grandeur' of the universe...as yellowstone pointed out...and then seek more knowledge.
I just cant beleive that all this came to be by chance but I also beleive that religion has nothing to do with it.
Okay...then I'd ask how you think it all came about, initally....at the beginning of time.
Are you saying you believe their is a 'higher power' out there that formed our universe or ???
Because to me a belief that there is a 'higher power' would be the same as some think of God....just not using that name to define him/it. I think religion tries to define it....answer the question.
--------
I also believe it's not a matter of my God vs your God type of situation. But rather just like in a situation where 5 people see the same thing....and yet come away with different 'takes' on what they saw. Are some lying and others know the 'real truth'? No...just different interpretations of the same event.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
"One thing is for sure: the extremists have faith in our weakness. And the weaker we are, the more they will come after us." --Tony Blair
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"The War on Terror will not be won until America is united. And as long as Democrats target the Bush administration -- not the terrorists -- as the enemy, we are in trouble." --Oliver North
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posted on July 29, 2004 09:53:42 AM newProfe said; Religion at it's best can provide one with a path, an opening, a glimpse of the divine
Does this not denote information coming from an earthly being??
By that I guess you mean a priest, preacher, imam or some other leader type. Maybe, for many it's necessary to get their inspiration and guidance from without, rather than from within. I make a distinction though, between following the dogma of a particular faith and being truly spiritual. One doesn't necessarily follow the other. My mother and grandmother both traveled 60 miles round trip three times a week to go to mass. Both took the words of the pope as the unfiltered word of god. Both were adherents to the faith, and both were also truly spiritual. My gradmother's recounting and absolute faith in her conversations with saints and angels were an inspiration to me as a kid. On the other hand, I have other relatives who just go thru the motions, and feel like going to mass once a month is a real burden. Yet, they will proudly declare themselves Catholic and firm believers in Christ being the only way to salvation. Hypocrites in my opinion. I don't think following an established religion is a prerequisite to having a true personal faith in god, however you define him/her/it/them.
Herein lies my arguement with religion. In order for your statement to be true wouldn't that earthly being have to have first hand and actual visual knowledge of the divine, or God??
Nope, that earthly being would only have to believe he or she had knowlege of the divine, assuming we're not talking about an outright charlatan, and his or her followers would only have to believe likewise. Jesus claimed intimate knowlege of the divine. Whether he actually had it or not is debatable till the cows come home. His followers believe the same thing, on some sort of level, again assuming they're not hypocrites. That is the nature of faith.
___________________________________
Beware the man of one book.
- Thomas Aquinas
posted on July 29, 2004 10:48:49 AM new
Linda said;
Okay...then I'd ask how you think it all came about, initally....at the beginning of time.
and
Are you saying you believe their is a 'higher power' out there that formed our universe or ???
I don't have completely definitive answers for these questions. I can only look at the evidence and try to surmise what happened. Basically, we all know about the big-bang theory and it is widely known that when it occured all manner of matter was created and became the universe as we know it. What is not widely known is that all the matter that you see in the universe only reprewsents 2% of the matter that was created when the big-bang occured. The other 98% percent cancelled itself out when matter and anti-matter came in contact. Theres a whole slew of evidence that points to this and I would have to re-read a whole bunch of physics books to point it out. Some physisist beleif is that a higher power stopped the universe from cancelling itself out entirely but exactly what that power was is not known, yet. Some surmise, as I do to that it was God. And I beleive that religion has nothing to do with it.
posted on July 29, 2004 01:39:30 PM new
woaw yellowstone, good answer. Though yeah I am a Christian (former Catholic ) I don't think a belief is the same as religion
btw do you belong to any astronomy bb's by chance?
posted on July 29, 2004 02:19:57 PM new
I agree too Yellowstone (great posts btw!). Have you tried reading any Brian Greene books (string theory, etc.)? Although difficult to understand, he has a way of explaining different dimensions and how there could be whole other universes out there that work in different dimensions than ours and how dimensions are tied up with time, or lack of it. When you read it, it makes you wonder if there was just one big bang or if big bangs are happening all over.
posted on July 29, 2004 06:42:15 PM newMy gradmother's recounting and absolute faith in her conversations with saints and angels were an inspiration to me as a kid.
I am not going to call your Grandmother's beleifs false. They are her beleifs and evryone is entitled to their own beleifs, however, I think that some that think they are having conversations with beings of divinity are actually talking to the little voice in their head. We all have that little voice in our head and the mind can play tricks on you sometimes. It can make some believe that they are talking to a divine being.
assuming we're not talking about an outright charlatan
I here what you are saying but how do you separate the charlatans from the people that actually had contact with the divine?? How do you tell them apart and how do you prove it??
That is the nature of faith
I have a real problem with faith, which is this; Isn't faith more like a wish that something is true. In otherwords, God loves you but then so does your favorite stuffed animal. You really want God to love you but how can you be sure that he/she/it really does, where's the proof??
The little voice in my head is telling me right now to go serve myself up a bowl of chili and beans and heat up a tortilla.
posted on July 29, 2004 07:14:15 PM new
Thank you NTS and Kraftdinner, after I posted I thought oh no they are going to think I am some sort of a crackpot. So I will take it a step further then. I beleive that God is not a religious being and worship is something that is wasted on him/her/it.
I beleive that God is a scientific being, it just stands to reason IMHO and I have a scientific theory of my own about God.
As time goes on physicists and scientists are discovering and theorising all sorts of new things in the universe. Black holes, dark matter, warps in space-time, wormholes and string theory. Allthough the study of wormholes and string theory are just that, theory, scientists are diligently working to prove their existance. Just a short time ago blackholes were thought of as a theory and we now know that they do exist.
I beleive that at some point in the future the physicists and scientists will discover and possibly stumble onto something that will be so outrageous and fantastic that the only thing that it could possible be will be God.
Kraftdinner
No I haven't read any of Brian Greene's books yet. I have read a few of Paul Davies, Steven Weinberg and Gerald Schroeder's books. It's been awhile since I read these books and I have found that if you don't stay up on it and constantly read these types of books then it's real easy to forget alot of what is written about the theories and such. I have a book that I need to read by Paul Davies called The Last 3 Minutes that deals with the ultimate fate of the/our universe. It is supposed to deal with the 2 theories that the universe will either continue to expand and in about 15 billion years from now all the lights will blink out. Or that the universe will fall back in on itself, called the big crunch.
posted on July 29, 2004 07:40:47 PM new
You're all so smart.
Cool Yellowstone! It's pretty interesting stuff but takes me days to be able to understand certain concepts. Greene talks about the expanding universe and the possible collapse, which he theorizes happens seconds before a big bang. Makes me feel like an ant.
posted on July 29, 2004 07:59:34 PM new
Yes there is more than one God. Simple answer. God is what we want it to be. Many people have different beliefs, some believe in God, some believe in more than one God, and some don't believe in God at all. Some believe in one form of God, while others believe in a different form of God.
The problem with most religions is that they are riddled with guilt and self-righteousness. They pray on fear and insecurity of their followers, and use this to manipulate them into believing their way is the only way. Religion is too restrictive for most people, yet they continue to follow. Wars and mass genocide have been used by religions around the world in order to "cleans" and convert. I don't believe any religion has really gotten it right because they are based in faith, and more often than not, faith is flawed. In no way am I saying all religion is bad. To the contrary, many religions have the right intentions, and some are better than others at promoting those intentions. Many religions have expectations of their followers, and I have found those expectations to be one of the major problems with religion. Take Catholicism as an example. They preach abstinence, yet some of their Priests can't keep it in their pants when it comes to children. Go figure. Look at many Evangelical religions. They've been stereotyped as greedy pocket players who go after every last cent of misled followers. Islam, they have constantly been torn apart by radicalism. Let's not forget all of the "cults" as well. For every religion, there is a good side, and there is a bad side. Not much different than politics, the corporate environment, non-profits, etc.
posted on July 29, 2004 08:17:28 PM new
Kraft
I glanced at the article and it is long. I will read it latter and thank you for posting it. It looks like a good read.
It sometimes takes me a long time to understand some of the concepts and I think why that is, is beacuse I can't do all of the math. I can deal with the theories alot easier if I don't have to do the math.
Some of the physics authors are easier to read and understand their books because they don't expect you to know but maybe just a little of the math.
I know that ant feeling well. When you look at the vastness of the universe it makes one wonder about ones own significance in it all.
posted on July 30, 2004 06:22:49 AM newwhere's the proof??
There's the rub. There isn't any, except what you know to be true for you personally. No bible thumping proselytizer can scientifically prove to me the truth of Jesus, but at the same time, I couldn't begin to prove that my nana was talking to herself and not Saint Jude himself.
If belief in a force or forces greater than one's self has a positive effect for someone, that's all the proof an individual needs. It only gets sticky when people decide that what's true for them has to be true for everyone. Curiously, on a world wide level, that seems to be a uniquely Christian and Muslim concept.
___________________________________
Beware the man of one book.
- Thomas Aquinas
Even though I feel pretty strongly about my own convictions on most subjects, there's always someone out there with a way of thinking or a totally different idea that makes me question my beliefs. I'm not sure we'll ever know what the supreme truth is about God, so I agree with Twig that everyone's right. You (Nero) talked about a universal energy (in so many words) that I've often thought about myself. It's just interesting, the thought of God, the being and IF "he's" a being and if he's the head honcho or is he just a part of a bigger thing like we are. (I'm trying to keep my questions away from the religious aspects.)