posted on August 30, 2004 12:22:20 AM newWho pay the fines for Catholic sex abuse cases?
You do! That's who. I was just watching CNN and the story about the Los Angles Catholic Church being ordered to pay several millions to sex abuse victims. Of course this doesn't only happen in LA, but in other cities in the US and else where.
Now, the church is a tax exempt organization, and doesn't pay a single penny of taxes on anything they own. This includes the church building, other real estate holding, stock, bonds and other capital investments.
Since they don't pay taxes on the millions and millions of dollars worth of investments, somebody else has to make up the difference and that is you! If the church paid it's share, then you would be able to keep more of your paycheck. I think that any Catholic Dioceses, or any church that is involved in such activity should LOSE it's tax exempt status.
More reading on this topic......
Former altar boys get $119 million in sex-abuse case
I agree with you on this one! We're not having problems with Catholic schools here, but rather with the charter schools. They do pay taxes, however, they take desperately needed money away from the public schools here and are not upheld to the same educational standards. Our property tax money is paying for them. The kicker? School buses had to be all but eliminated from the public schools here due to the huge deficit the schools face. The charter schools are now using the school buses thanks to the use of property tax and state money that should go to the public schools.
The Catholic schools should carry their own weight, as well. The use of alter boys should be eliminated. We come down hard on pedophiles, why is it more tolerated and punished to a lesser degree in the Catholic church? Why am I or anyone else paying the price because some priest can't keep his shorts on? Lock them up, throw away the key and fine the living you-know-what out of the church. Take away the tax-exempt status as well. BTW, the sluttiest girls we knew of in school were those attending the Catholic schools. IMO, school should be permanently out for the Catholic school system. Like Alice Cooper said, "Schools out forever"!
Cheryl
. . .if you still try to defend the infamies and horrors perpetrated by that Antichrist- I really believe he is Antichrist- I will have nothing more to do with you and you are no longer my friend.. . - War and Peace, Tolstoy
posted on August 30, 2004 09:17:46 AM newYou're right cheryl, charter schools consistently produce better students...
Bunk. Private and charter schools have better student stats because they can pick and choose who attends their schools.
Public schools must serve any child that comes through the door, and that includes children that do not speak english, emotionally disturbed children, and any and all degrees of retarded children, as well as the handicapped.
Most crtisisms of public schools are unfounded and undeserved.
posted on August 30, 2004 09:48:27 AM new
I agree that private, religious and charter school children are given a much better education.
And the Catholic schools have many, many poor registered who pay little or nothing for their child/children to attend.
Plus...children are much safer in private schools than they are in the public school system. Teachers and students in many public schools have to deal with violent/threatening students, gangs...and have almost double the 'problem' rate than private schools do.
Trying to learn in a violent environment is not going to ever be as easy as it is in a non-violent, or much lower level of violence atmosphere.
Our public schools have been failing our children for years. Throwing more and more money at them hasn't improved the situation.
That's why the public school, teachers unions, etc. constantly fight the loss of students in their system that is going on now. They don't want those Federal $$ taken out. They'd rather continue to deny that private and charter schools are accomplishing MUCH more than our public school are in educating our children.
[ edited by Linda_K on Aug 30, 2004 09:50 AM ]
posted on August 30, 2004 01:03:00 PM newAnd the Catholic schools have many, many poor registered who pay little or nothing for their child/children to attend.
No they don't. Not even 10% get free or reduced tuition.
In fact south Chicago was closing private catholic schools because no one attended because no one could pay the tuition.
The education at private schools is no different than public. The only difference is that private schools will get rid of under performing kids by not allowing them to enter in the first place.
FYI, many school levies have been passed here. It's called mismanagement of funds and an over paid CEO. My granddaughter goes to a fine Cleveland Public School - Louisa May Alcott. They are up for the National Blue Ribbon Award. She's 6 and can read, do simple math equations, knows science and knows quite a lot about social studies and history considering her age. She learned it in Kindergarten. The success of this school has not only come from the tireless dedication of its teachers, but from the overwhelming support of parents and the community.
District School Nominated For National National Blue Ribbon Award
CLEVELAND, OH – Louisa May Alcott was recently nominated for the U.S. Department of Education’s 2004 No Child Left Behind – Blue Ribbon Schools award. Dr. Susan Tave Zelman, State Superintendent for Instruction, made the announcement last week.
Alcott is among 13 other Ohio schools nominated for the award and one of only two schools from Cuyahoga County.
“I have always believed, provided students are given rigorous instruction and the necessary services, urban children can achieve as well as any other,” said Louisa May Alcott principal, Maureen Berg. “Through the teamwork of an exemplary teaching staff, our goals have been realized.”
“This nomination is a result of the tireless effort all of us have put forth – students, parents, teachers and staff,” said CEO Byrd-Bennett. “Our progress is evident. I’m extremely pleased.”
At least 75 percent of the students at Alcott were proficient in both mathematics and reading on the 2002-03 Ohio Proficiency Tests. Eighty-nine percent of the school’s fourth grade students were proficient in math, and 86 percent were proficient in reading.
Most recently, Whitney Young won the Blue Ribbon award during the 1997-98 school year. Orchard has also won a Blue Ribbon award.
This year’s nominees and award winners will be recognized by U.S. Secretary of Education Rod Paige, at a ceremony in Washington D.C., later this school year.
Reamond
You are right. There are not many poor children attending private or Catholic schools. At least not in this area. There are scholarships to be awarded, but they are few and far between and hardly provide enough money to keep an underprivledged child in private school.
Linda
There is equal violence in the schools - private and public. It's everywhere. To say they are safer in private school is to say they can let their guard down there. Not so. I wonder how many pedophiles lurk in the Catholic schools? If it happens in the church. . .
Cheryl
. . .if you still try to defend the infamies and horrors perpetrated by that Antichrist- I really believe he is Antichrist- I will have nothing more to do with you and you are no longer my friend.. . - War and Peace, Tolstoy
posted on August 30, 2004 03:21:45 PM new
When private schools are forced to educate every student who shows up at the door, and are located in the poorest neighborhoods, and then produce statistically significant higher test scores, then we can look at what they may be doing "right".
posted on August 30, 2004 03:40:47 PM new
cheryl - First you tell me to stop bolding....now just a day later you're doing it. [shaking head here tsk tsk]
Then I'm sure you have a way to back up/support your false claim that violence is just as prevalent in private schools as it is in public schools.
-----------------
My proof it's not:
According to a recent study by the Heartland Institute, the rate of violent crime against students is almost twice as high in public schools as in private schools.
Similarly, teachers in public schools are twice as likely as teachers in private schools to be threatened or physically attacked by students.
The Bureau of Justice Statistics and the National Center for Education Statistics demonstrate that for student and teacher alike, if schools are not safe, they cannot be places of learning.
The Heartland Institute study, after exploring The National Center for Education Statistics' sixth annual report for the school year 1999-2000, discovered some revealing statistics after comparing safety in public and private schools.
A higher percentage (1.9%) of public school students reported they had been victims of violent crime during the previous six months than private school students (1.0%).
Among public school students aged 12 to 18 year, 21.6% (31.9% in urban areas) said there were street gangs present at school -- as compared to 4.9% (5.0% in urban areas) of private school students reporting similar activity.
About 10% of public school teachers had been threatened with injury as compared to 4% of private school teachers.
Likewise, 4% of public school teachers had been attacked, while this percentage falls to 2% among private school teachers.
The researchers found that 22 students nationwide lost their lives in school-associated homicides (16) or suicides (6). But these statistics tell only a small part of the story.
Away from school, 2,124 children, ages 5-19, were homicide victims during the 1999-2000 school year, and 1,922 children ages 5-19 died by suicide during calendar year 2000.
(Source: Joe McTighe, "Private Schools Safer for Teachers and Students," Heartland Institute, January 2004; based upon: "Indicators of School Crime and Safety: 2003," National Center for Education Statistics, October 2003.)
For the full text of the report, visit the Heartland Institute website: www.heartland.org.
posted on August 30, 2004 04:18:02 PM new
Anyone who wishes to see the success that charter schools are accomplishing in DC, probably the worst schools in the nation, can easily do so by a google search.
On costs of what taxpayers pay vs what private schools charge....these are the most recent numbers I could find.
4. How much do Americans spend on education?
Over the past 30 years, average per-pupil expenditures for public, elementary, and secondary schools have nearly doubled, rising from $3,931 in 1971-1972 to $7,524 in 2001-2002, in constant dollars.[9] Expenditures vary by state, with the District of Columbia spending the most at $12,046 and Utah the least at $4,674 per student.[10]
Total federal, state, and local spending for education, both public and private, climbed to $745 billion for the 2001-2002 school year.
my note: and President Bush has spent approx. 36% more Federal dollars on schools in his first three years.
Sixty-one percent, or $454 billion, was spent on K-12 education.[11]Local funding accounts for approximately 44 percent of pending, state 49 percent, and federal 7 percent.[12]
The average private school tuition, according to a 2003 Cato Institute study, is $4,689. The average private elementary school tuition is less than $3,500, and the average secondary school tuition is $6,052.[13]
No one has yet shown that what we as taxpayers are paying for our schools is giving us the quality education that private schools give....AND for less cost on the average.
posted on August 30, 2004 05:04:50 PM new
From the replies to this post I don't think any of the posters kids went to Catholic School. Maybe Reamond's kid or kids did. My kid went to a Catholic school in Pittsburgh. Are Catholic kids little Angels heck no. Do they get a better education yes.
When a kid leaves a Catholic school the Colleges open their doors.
Its not easy on parents paying the tuition of a private school but paying gets parents involved.
Reamond is right about free rides. I didn't see many kids getting help in the school my kid went to.
My kid played CYO basketball and his school played 3 inter-city schools. At the games the Catholic school kids always a lot of parents there cheering them on. While it was lucky if the inter-school kids had 1 or 2 parents there to support them. VERY SAD!!!
To the person who was complaining about paying taxes for private schools. I don't have any kids in school now but still pay school taxes. When I was paying for 12 years of private school, I also paid school taxes to public schools. I didn't complain or did I hear other private school parents complaining.
posted on August 30, 2004 05:27:04 PM new
Bigpeepa,
I would say that the quality of public schools depends on the school district. In my neighborhood, for example, the public schools are better than private and Catholic schools. My children attended public schools and have graduated from college with advanced degrees from Yale, Johns Hopkins and the University of Maryland. You are so right about the value of parent's interest and encouragement in the school and their children's education. That makes a big difference, especially in the elementary school.
I agree with you on taxes too. Most people, whether they have children in school or not see the value in good public schools.
posted on August 30, 2004 07:13:16 PM newThe average private school tuition, according to a 2003 Cato Institute study, is $4,689. The average private elementary school tuition is less than $3,500, and the average secondary school tuition is $6,052.
Well let's see; how many special education teahers are employed at these private schools ? NONE.
How many tutors are hired to help handicapped kids at these private schools ? NONE .
How many aids are hired by these private schools to physically help handicapped kids at private schools ? NONE !
How many special teachers or immersion language teachers are hired by these private schools ? NONE.
Private schools pick and choose who attends.
Public schools must educate everyone who shows up at their doors.
Flunk out of private school or not meet their demands in any way and you're out and there is nothing you can do about it.
Flunk in public school and fail in any other way and the school is still responsible for providing the student with an education.
Private schools just dump their problems on the public schools.
posted on August 30, 2004 07:32:25 PM new
Helenjw, you have some mighty fine kids. You must be very proud.
Your are right about school systems. I never meant to say all public schools are bad. There are a lot of very good public schools. But having said that I still believe that Catholic schools are a good bang for the buck, as they say.
I guess what I liked most about the Catholic school my kid went to was the parents were involved. Like I said before if they write out checks they pay a lot better attention as to what's going on. HA HA.
posted on August 31, 2004 03:31:46 PM new
Fortunately, my granddaughter's school has a great program for handicapped children. Tiffany has two in her class. One child has no arms and is just amazing. It's something to watch Christopher write with his feet. Tiffany has learned how to accept these children into her everyday life with the same respect as she accepts healthy children. Handicapped is not an issue in her school. Neither is race.
Parental involvement is key to a good education, IMO. Jenny (my daughter) and I work together. Yes, I'm her boss. When there are special events at the school that occur during working hours, we take turns attending them. We both chaperone school events as well. Parents regularly volunteer in the classrooms. Tomorrow is their monthly parent meeting followed by an icecream social for the kids. The school runs on a reward type of system. They reward good behavior with special events for the kids and it seems to work very well. I don't recall this level of parental involvement in either of my children's schools.
As a matter of fact, it's such a good school that when the 5th graders were asked last year if they wanted to attend the local middle school or if they wanted Louisa May Alcott to add 6th grade to the school, they overwhelmingly chose to stay at LMA.
I'm not saying that Catholic schools are bad schools. But, why should a child's parents have to pay for them to be provided a good, sound and safe education? It's like saying that poor children don't deserve as much as children whose parents have enough money to pay for an education. As industrialized as this nation is, it's educational system stinks. I vote "yes" on all school levies that come up. I don't mind paying the small amount of extra property tax if it means a better education will be provided.
Cheryl
. . .if you still try to defend the infamies and horrors perpetrated by that Antichrist- I really believe he is Antichrist- I will have nothing more to do with you and you are no longer my friend.. . - War and Peace, Tolstoy
