posted on September 8, 2004 05:17:49 PM new
You must be on the east coast, as its only 5:18 here I guess that means it comes on at 8 here. Whats on it tonight?
posted on September 8, 2004 05:24:11 PM new
Ben Barnes to break silence on "60 Minutes"
The Republican campaign gets ready for shock waves, as the former Texas official who says he pulled strings to get George W. Bush into the Air National Guard finally goes public..
posted on September 8, 2004 05:34:23 PM new
doolittle, I have it on. I am listening as I am doing other things.
Did you hear about the Illegal immigrnts they found stowed off in Michigan yet? Heard a blip on it on CNN. Mostly Middle Easteners. - Scary that one is boy! So much for great security!
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~~ Keep thy heart with all diligence for out of it are the issues(forces)of life..Proverbs 4:23~~
posted on September 8, 2004 05:44:16 PM new
Didn't hear that Neroter... what did you make of what Barns said? How do you think this will affect Bush's Campaign?
posted on September 8, 2004 06:44:31 PM new
Watching Fox and they are talking about the treason Kerry committed when he came back from Nam. Kerry labeled them war criminals and the POWs said Kerry was responsible for them doing at least 2 more years. Not sure how any American could want a man who turned his back on POWs to be President.
posted on September 8, 2004 06:50:50 PM new
doolittle, i only heard a little part of it.
It could be true. I wouldnt deny Bush is from a powerful and influencial family. But at this point, it only comes off as a tit-for-tat thing. I think its a bad move for the dems, but what do i know? lol. Will be interesting to see how it plays out in the press and among most voters, though.
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~~ Keep thy heart with all diligence for out of it are the issues(forces)of life..Proverbs 4:23~~
posted on September 8, 2004 06:56:20 PM newYou mean THIS Ben Barnes?
WHO IS BEN BARNES?
A Deep-Pocketed Kerry Partisan Who Can't Keep His Stories Straight
______________________________________________
Barnes Under Oath
Under Oath, Barnes Testified He Had No Contact With Bush Family Concerning National Guard. "Ben Barnes, then the speaker of the Texas House, said in 1999 that Sidney Adger, a Houston businessman and longtime friend of the Bush family whose son also won a slot in the 147th, had asked him to help get Mr. Bush into the Guard. Mr. Barnes, who acknowledged a role only after he was questioned under oath, also said that he had spoken to the head of the Texas Air National Guard on Mr. Bush's behalf, but had no contact with anyone in the Bush family. And there is no direct evidence that Mr. Bush's family pulled strings to get him into the 147th. Mr. Bush is firmly on record denying it, as is the commander of the unit, and there is no paper trail showing any influence by the Bush family." (David Barstow, "In Haze Of Guard Records, A Bit Of Clarity," The New York Times, 2/15/04)
Barnes Said Reports He Helped Bush At His Father's Urging Were "False." "Former Lt. Gov. Ben Barnes denied a magazine report Thursday that he helped George W. Bush get a place in the Texas Air National Guard at the urging of Bush's father. Bush, the Republican presidential front-runner, has repeatedly denied that he received preferential treatment in being accepted into the Guard during the Vietnam War. … 'I never spoke to Congressman Bush about his son,' Barnes said Thursday. 'The story is false.'" (Renae Merle, "Barnes Denies Report That He Helped Bush Into The National Guard," The Associated Press, 7/15/99)
In Fall Of 1999, Barnes Said Bush Family Never Asked To Get President Bush Into National Guard. "Mr. Bush has consistently said he never requested special treatment, though Ben Barnes, who was speaker of the Texas House in 1968, said in 1999 that he had been asked by a Houston businessman -- not by the Bush family -- to recommend Mr. Bush for a pilot's slot, and that he had done so." (David M. Halbfinger, "Three Decades Later, Vietnam Remains A Hot Issue," The New York Times, 8/29/04)
But Now, Barnes' Story "Subject To Change"
Today, Barnes Claims He Is "Ashamed" He Got President Bush Into Texas Air National Guard. "Former Texas House Speaker Ben Barnes said he is 'more ashamed at myself than I've ever been' because he helped President Bush and the sons of other wealthy families get into the Texas National Guard so they could avoid serving in Vietnam. 'I got a young man named George W. Bush into the National Guard ... and I'm not necessarily proud of that, but I did it,' Barnes, a Democrat, said in a video clip recorded May 27 before a group of John Kerry supporters in Austin. Barnes, who was House speaker when Bush entered the Guard, later became lieutenant governor." (Bobby Ross Jr., "Former Lawmaker Says He Got Bush Into The Texas Guard," The Associated Press, 8/28/04)
Yet, According To February 2004 New York Times Article, Barnes' Story "Was Subject To Change And There Were No Documents To Support His Claims." "Local reporters could coax one former Democratic state official into admitting, off the record, that he had interceded on Mr. Bush's behalf at the request of either a prominent Dallas businessman or George H. W. Bush, who was then a member of Congress. But the official's story -- the source was later revealed to be former Lt. Gov. Ben Barnes -- was subject to change and there were no documents to support his claims." (Mimi Swartz, "In Search Of The President's Missing Years," The New York Times, 2/27/04)
Barnes Is Kerry Fundraiser And Advisor
Ben Barnes Is Kerry Campaign Vice-Chair, Raising Over $100,000 For Campaign. (Kerry For President Website, www.johnkerry.com/fec/, Accessed 9/4/04)
Barnes Considers John Kerry Close Personal Friend. "Barnes, a government consultant with offices in Austin, Chicago and Washington, said: 'I'm just an enthusiastic participant' who considers as personal friends Corzine, Daschle and Kerry, whom he got to know during summer vacations in Nantucket." (W. Gardner Selby, "Texas' Last 'Old Lion' Still On Prowl For Funds," San Antonio Express-Texas, 7/30/04)
"Texans For Kerry" Website Links To Barnes Video. (Texans For Kerry Website, www.texansforkerry.com/texansforkerry/, Accessed 9/7/04)
Barnes Is Considered "A Definite In" In Kerry Administration. "[Barnes has] known Kerry since the 1980s. 'I don't know who's going to be in and who's going to be out' of a possible Kerry administration, Barnes said. 'But John Kerry has been sympathetic to Texas in the past. ... I would expect him to listen to our problems if he's in the White House.' Barnes is a definite in, though he says he'll keep working as a lobbyist based in Austin." (Jay Root, "Texas Democrats Are Waiting In The Wings," Fort Worth Star Telegram, 7/31/04)
Barnes Owns Home Near Kerry's In Nantucket. "Now a lobbyist and consultant, Barnes has a house near Kerry's in Nantucket, Mass., and committed to Kerry's White House bid nearly three years ago on the grounds of the Nantucket Golf Club." (Jay Root, "Texas Democrats Are Waiting In The Wings," Fort Worth Star Telegram, 7/31/04)
Barnes Is Kerry "Super-Bundler" Fundraiser. "Eleven [Kerry super-bundlers] are from Texas, including Dallas plaintiff's lawyer Fred Baron and lobbyist Ben Barnes, a Lyndon Johnson protégé who served as lieutenant governor and is one of the national Democrat Party's most prodigious fund-raisers. 'If someone had told me last quarter that John Kerry would have raised as much money as he's been able to, I'd have said it couldn't happen. But I'm seeing it happen,' said Mr. Barnes, whose lobby clients have included American Airlines and the chemical giant Huntsman Corp." (Wayne Slater, "Vested Interests In Kerry Lawyers, Lobbyists Top Donors List," Dallas Morning News, 7/26/04)
Opening Night Of Democratic Convention In Boston, "Kerry Adviser And Veteran Political Fund-Raiser"Barnes Hosted Party For Convention-Goers. "On the opening night of the Democratic National Convention, more than 250 well-dressed people strayed from the convention, enjoying bubbly drinks and appetizers such as tablespoon-sized shrimp salads at a party hosted by former Texas Lt. Gov. Ben Barnes. Barnes, a Kerry adviser and veteran political fund-raiser, said he scheduled his event to remind potential donors about the Democratic Senate Campaign Committee, which seeks to help Democrats recapture a majority in the U.S. Senate, where the GOP has a two-vote majority." (W. Gardner Selby, "Texas' Last 'Old Lion' Still On Prowl For Funds," San Antonio Express-Texas, 7/30/04)
In October 2003, Barnes Hosted Fundraiser For John Kerry. "Democratic presidential contender John Kerry, counting on the Texas-Massachusetts connection that played better in the 1960s than it did in the 1980s, made three fund-raising stops in Texas on Wednesday as he campaigned toward primary season. Kerry, a senator from Massachusetts, spoke to about 60 supporters at the Four Seasons Hotel here between stops in Dallas and Houston….In introducing Kerry here, former Lt. Gov. Ben Barnes likened him to Kennedy. 'He possesses the talent, the courage, the experience and the depth that will make him, as Jack Kennedy was in 1961, a president that has the determination to lead this country,' Barnes said." (Ken Herman, "Kerry Plays Up Texas' Link To His Home State," Austin American-Statesman, 10/2/03)
Barnes Is A Partisan Democrat
Daschle Called Barnes "The Fifty-First Democratic Senator." "Yet here he is in the rarefied atmosphere of big power and big-time politics -- one of the chief financial and strategic architects of the Democratic resurgence to parity (and subsequently control) in the Senate. Majority leader Tom Daschle has called him 'the fifty-first Democratic senator.'" (Paul Burka, "So What If He Never Got To Be Governor Or President?" Texas Monthly, 9/01)
Barnes Attended Clinton Coffee Intended To Raise $500,000. "Newly released White House documents show that President Clinton's political operatives expected to raise $500,000 from a White House coffee for wealthy Texans in the summer, calling into question Clinton's assertion that 'no price tag was placed' on White House events. In a July 14 memo to White House officials, campaign Chairman Peter Knight suggested adding the Texas coffee klatch to Clinton's schedule as part of an effort to raise $7.8 million in the state. Knight predicted that the event would generate $500,000 in political contributions. About 20 Texans, including former Gov. Dolph Briscoe, Land Commissioner Garry Mauro and former Lt. Gov. Ben Barnes, attended the Aug. 23 get-together with the president." (Ron Hutcheson, "Clinton's Fund-Raising Assertion Questioned," Fort Worth Star-Telegram, 2/27/97)
In 1996, Barnes Endorsed Clinton/Gore '96. (Lisa R. Davis, "CEOs And Business Leaders Endorse President Clinton," Press Release, 10/8/96)
Ben Barnes Has Donated At Least $380,750 To Democratic Candidates And Campaign Bodies Including:
ü John Kerry For President Inc.
ü Kerry Committee
ü Kerry-Edwards 2004 Inc. General Election Legal And Accounting Compliance Fund
ü A Lot Of People Supporting Tom Daschle Inc.
ü Bob Graham For President Inc.
ü Cantwell 2006
ü Citizens For Biden
ü Citizens For Sarbanes
ü Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee
ü Democratic National Committee
ü Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee
ü Evan Bayh Committee
ü Friends Of Byron Dorgan
ü Friends Of Dick Durbin Committee
ü Friends Of Max Cleland For The US Senate Inc.
ü Friends Of Schumer
ü Friends Of Harry Reid
ü Friends Of Hillary
ü Friends Of Patrick J Kennedy Inc.
ü Friends Of Senator Carl Levin
ü Gephardt For President Inc.
ü Gore 2000 Inc.
ü Hillary Rodham Clinton For US Senate Committee Inc.
ü Joe Lieberman For President Inc.
ü Kennedy For Senate 2006
ü Leahy For U.S. Senator Committee
ü People For Patty Murray US Senate Campaign
ü Stabenow For US Senate
ü Tony Knowles For US Senate (Political Money Line Website, www.tray.com, Accessed 9/8/04)
Barnes' Ethical Mishaps
Sharpstown Bank Scandal In 1971 Ended Barnes' Political Career. "The Sharpstown Scandal: This scandal involved quick-profit stock sales for lawmakers and state officials in 1971-72. Houston financier Frank Sharp arranged the stock loans from his Sharpstown State Bank, purportedly to grease the passage of two banking bills. Two dozen former and sitting officials were accused, and others suffered by association. House Speaker Gus Mutscher and another legislator were convicted of conspiring to accept a bribe. Gov. Preston Smith lost the governorship after his profit was disclosed. Half the Texas House was voted out of office or didn't seek re-election. And Lt. Gov. Ben Barnes, a rising political star, was caught in the housecleaning when he tried to win the governor's seat. LBJ had even predicted that Barnes would make it to the White House." (Carolyn Barta, "Texas Has Left A Lasting Mark In The World Of Politics," The Dallas Morning News, 3/4/99)
In 1998, Barnes Was Accused Of Funneling $500,000 To Former Sales Manager Of Corporation Running Texas Lottery. "The former national sales manager for Gtech Holdings Corp., which operates the Texas lottery, was sentenced to 63 months in federal prison Thursday for stealing from the company. …His sentencing two years after his conviction was delayed by a controversy over information released by prosecutors linking him and former Texas Lt. Gov. Ben Barnes to a similar kickback scheme. In a sentencing memo in the Smith case, New Jersey prosecutors alleged that Mr. Barnes, then Gtech's chief Texas lobbyist, funneled $500,000 to Mr. Smith. The memo containing the allegations was posted on the Internet. Mr. Barnes denied that he had done anything wrong, and Judge Politan ordered prosecutors to apologize. In August, they acknowledged that they had disclosed secret information. Mr. Barnes said at the time that the money he gave Mr. Smith was for work not connected to the lottery. Mr. Barnes has never been charged with wrongdoing in connection with the allegation. Gtech bought out Mr. Barnes' contract for $23 million after Texas lottery commissioners questioned Gtech business practices." (George Kuempel, "Ex-Official For Gtech Sentenced," The Dallas Morning News, 10/9/98)
Investment Partnership With John Connally Went Bust In 1988 After Connally And Barnes Racked Up $200 Million In Debt. "He joined with his protégé Ben Barnes, the former lieutenant governor of Texas, to embark on the business of building offices and condominiums and shopping malls, borrowing millions of dollars on the strength of his famous name, arguably the most famous in the state. At the time, Connally's real estate and energy investments appeared to be solid. Oil was selling for $33 a barrel and seemed destined to go higher. Texas was on a roll and John Connally was riding the crest of an economic surge that was making millionaires overnight. But Connally's timing was off. The decline of Texas and the rest of the energy belt began in 1982, just about the time he and Barnes began their spending and borrowing spree in earnest, taking the big chances. Files for Bankruptcy. Five years later, after a fruitless struggle for economic survival, Connally admitted that betting big had been a mistake. On July 31 of last year, he filed for bankruptcy. At the time, he and Barnes owed creditors more than $200 million." (J. Michael Kennedy, "Symbol Of Troubled Texas," Los Angeles Times, 1/22/88)
posted on September 8, 2004 07:12:59 PM new
No.. that's not the one Bear..
Shame you didn't watch it.. I thought it was very interesting. LOL..
Like Neroter said.. it will be interesting to see how it plays out.. or if it is blacked out.
posted on September 8, 2004 07:32:03 PM new
This is the news report indicating that he did not fulfill his obligations.
National Guard records show that
George W. Bush didn't meet the
commitments, or face the
punishment. (AP File Photo)
Bush fell short on duty at Guard
Records show pledges unmet
September 8, 2004
This article was reported by the Globe Spotlight Team -- reporters Stephen Kurkjian, Francie Latour, Sacha Pfeiffer, and Michael Rezendes, and editor Walter V. Robinson. It was written by Robinson.
In February, when the White House made public hundreds of pages of President Bush's military records, White House officials repeatedly insisted that the records prove that Bush fulfilled his military commitment in the Texas Air National Guard during the Vietnam War.
But Bush fell well short of meeting his military obligation, a Globe reexamination of the records shows: Twice during his Guard service -- first when he joined in May 1968, and again before he transferred out of his unit in mid-1973 to attend Harvard Business School -- Bush signed documents pledging to meet training commitments or face a punitive call-up to active duty.
He didn't meet the commitments, or face the punishment, the records show. The 1973 document has been overlooked in news media accounts. The 1968 document has received scant notice.
On July 30, 1973, shortly before he moved from Houston to Cambridge, Bush signed a document that declared, ''It is my responsibility to locate and be assigned to another Reserve forces unit or mobilization augmentation position. If I fail to do so, I am subject to involuntary order to active duty for up to 24 months. . . " Under Guard regulations, Bush had 60 days to locate a new unit.
But Bush never signed up with a Boston-area unit. In 1999, Bush spokesman Dan Bartlett told the Washington Post that Bush finished his six-year commitment at a Boston area Air Force Reserve unit after he left Houston. Not so, Bartlett now concedes. ''I must have misspoke," Bartlett, who is now the White House communications director, said in a recent interview.
And early in his Guard service, on May 27, 1968, Bush signed a ''statement of understanding" pledging to achieve ''satisfactory participation" that included attendance at 24 days of annual weekend duty -- usually involving two weekend days each month -- and 15 days of annual active duty. ''I understand that I may be ordered to active duty for a period not to exceed 24 months for unsatisfactory participation," the statement reads.
Yet Bush, a fighter-interceptor pilot, performed no service for one six-month period in 1972 and for another period of almost three months in 1973, the records show.
The reexamination of Bush's records by the Globe, along with interviews with military specialists who have reviewed regulations from that era, show that Bush's attendance at required training drills was so irregular that his superiors could have disciplined him or ordered him to active duty in 1972, 1973, or 1974. But they did neither. In fact, Bush's unit certified in late 1973 that his service had been ''satisfactory" -- just four months after Bush's commanding officer wrote that Bush had not been seen at his unit for the previous 12 months.
Bartlett, in a statement to the Globe last night, sidestepped questions about Bush's record. In the statement, Bartlett asserted again that Bush would not have been honorably discharged if he had not ''met all his requirements." In a follow-up e-mail, Bartlett declared: ''And if he hadn't met his requirements you point to, they would have called him up for active duty for up to two years."
That assertion by the White House spokesman infuriates retired Army Colonel Gerald A. Lechliter, one of a number of retired military officers who have studied Bush's records and old National Guard regulations, and reached different conclusions.
''He broke his contract with the United States government -- without any adverse consequences. And the Texas Air National Guard was complicit in allowing this to happen," Lechliter said in an interview yesterday. ''He was a pilot. It cost the government a million dollars to train him to fly. So he should have been held to an even higher standard."
Even retired Lieutenant Colonel Albert C. Lloyd Jr., a former Texas Air National Guard personnel chief who vouched for Bush at the White House's request in February, agreed that Bush walked away from his obligation to join a reserve unit in the Boston area when he moved to Cambridge in September 1973. By not joining a unit in Massachusetts, Lloyd said in an interview last month, Bush ''took a chance that he could be called up for active duty. But the war was winding down, and he probably knew that the Air Force was not enforcing the penalty."
But Lloyd said that singling out Bush for criticism is unfair. ''There were hundreds of guys like him who did the same thing," he said.
Lawrence J. Korb, an assistant secretary of defense for manpower and reserve affairs in the Reagan administration, said after studying many of the documents that it is clear to him that Bush ''gamed the system." And he agreed with Lloyd that Bush was not alone in doing so. ''If I cheat on my income tax and don't get caught, I'm still cheating on my income tax," Korb said.
After his own review, Korb said Bush could have been ordered to active duty for missing more than 10 percent of his required drills in any given year. Bush, according to the records, fell shy of that obligation in two successive fiscal years.
Korb said Bush also made a commitment to complete his six-year obligation when he moved to Cambridge, a transfer the Guard often allowed to accommodate Guardsmen who had to move elsewhere. ''He had a responsibility to find a unit in Boston and attend drills," said Korb, who is now affiliated with a liberal Washington think tank. ''I see no evidence or indication in the documents that he was given permission to forgo training before the end of his obligation. If he signed that document, he should have fulfilled his obligation."
The documents Bush signed only add to evidence that the future president -- then the son of Houston's congressman -- received favorable treatment when he joined the Guard after graduating from Yale in 1968. Ben Barnes, who was speaker of the Texas House of Representatives in 1968, said in a deposition in 2000 that he placed a call to get young Bush a coveted slot in the Guard at the request of a Bush family friend.
Bush was given an automatic commission as a second lieutenant, and dispatched to flight school in Georgia for 13 months. In June 1970, after five additional months of specialized training in F-102 fighter-interceptor, Bush began what should have been a four-year assignment with the 111th Fighter-Interceptor Squadron.
In May 1972, Bush was given permission to move to Alabama temporarily to work on a US Senate campaign, with the provision that he do equivalent training with a unit in Montgomery. But Bush's service records do not show him logging any service in Alabama until October of that year.
And even that service is in doubt. Since the Globe first reported Bush's spotty attendance record in May 2000, no one has come forward with any credible recollection of having witnessed Bush performing guard service in Alabama or after he returned to Houston in 1973. While Bush was in Alabama, he was removed from flight status for failing to take his annual flight physical in July 1972. On May 1, 1973, Bush's superior officers wrote that they could not complete his annual performance review because he had not been observed at the Houston base during the prior 12 months.
Although the records of Bush's service in 1973 are contradictory, some of them suggest that he did a flurry of drills in 1973 in Houston -- a weekend in April and then 38 days of training crammed into May, June, and July. But Lechliter, the retired colonel, concluded after reviewing National Guard regulations that Bush should not have received credit -- or pay -- for many of those days either. The regulations, Lechliter and others said, required that any scheduled drills that Bush missed be made up either within 15 days before or 30 days after the date of the drill.
Lechliter said the records push him to conclude that Bush had little interest in fulfilling his obligation, and his superiors preferred to look the other way. Others agree. ''It appears that no one wanted to hold him accountable," said retired Major General Paul A. Weaver Jr., who retired in 2002 as the Pentagon's director of the Air National Guard.
posted on September 8, 2004 07:56:00 PM new
I watched and was very impressed. More pieces of the puzzle are turning up. I also think the texansfortruth ads will put more pressure on bush. Lets see how many people who served with bush come forward.
posted on September 8, 2004 07:57:19 PM new
Demos are like a bunch of little kids... they got caught and are now making up stories to counter act that... LOL
Democratic party has to have the biggest bunch of losers ever to walk the earth...
posted on September 9, 2004 05:27:48 AM new
doolittle, they are now saying on the news Kerry doesnt want to address it with reporters and wants to concentrate on the economy. I think that is a smart move on his part. [-Isnt that what Clinton told him to do, too?] Looks like if they are trying to 'help' Kerry with this, it is backfiring. IMO, I think voters are tired of being blanketed with this viet nam stuff all around.
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~~ Keep thy heart with all diligence for out of it are the issues(forces)of life..Proverbs 4:23~~
posted on September 9, 2004 11:44:53 AM new
I like the left bottom corner of your document, Bear - 33. Signature Of Person Being Discharged - Not Available For Signature.
posted on September 9, 2004 02:04:44 PM new
bootclan, you really have to be dumber than a bag of hammers to believe that Kerry turned his back on American Soldiers and POWs.
yes, he spoke out against the atrocities in war and i admire his courage to do so. an honorable man or woman would speak out if they saw things that were simply wrong. even to this day there are atrocities going on in Iraq being committed by American soldiers. so, bootclan, do you think it is wrong for a soldier to speak out against the atrocities that happened at Abu Graib prison? is it right for anyone to torture other humans? i bet you were eager to speak your mind with the beheadings by extremists in Iraq. right? I would hope that one of their own extremist soldiers stood up and said that these actions were wrong. It would take courage to stand up against something you don't believe is right. bootclan, i'm sure you're there to speak out against abortion because you believe it is wrong. that is your right as an american. no one is going to call you a traitor for doing so, even though you disagree with what other americans do in their lives.
to think you're actually an american sickens me. you want double standards as long as they only agree with what you believe is right. perhaps you should take that boot and stick it where sun doesn't shine.
posted on September 9, 2004 05:22:00 PM new
It IS tit-for-tat....any grown up can see that.
----------
Leave it to CBS and especially Dan Rather...THE MOST biased against Republicans and now President Bush, commentator on the air.
Want to see just HOW biased? Read a little on http://www.ratherbiased.com See what he lets slide...glances over..and what he focuses on in this VERY biased reporting. He might as well make a public statement that says 'I hate republicans'. 'I will do everything within my power to get this President removed from office.'
-----------
Yes, EAG...I just read about that too. Time will tell...but it would be true justice if this blew up in their faces.
------------
rusty said:
you really have to be dumber than a bag of hammers to believe that Kerry turned his back on American Soldiers and POWs.
No, you really have to believe those who protested the VN war, those totally against war, the anti-American - pro-communist groups that led the protestors... RATHER THAN believing those who ACTUALLY SERVED in that war.
After all, why listen to the men who WERE willing to put their lives on the line over those who ran off to Canada...or protested against their own country during war time or aided and abetted our enemies when we were at war.
Kind of like now....too many on the left siding against their own country's actions....even though the Presidential candidate THEY'RE going to vote for....VOTED FOR IT.
edited to correct link and to add:
Yes, bear...that would be the same one - Barnes.
I just love how the left is constantly making charges about the connection between the SBVTs...which they can't prove....all alligations...but THEN when this jerk speaks out and the connections between him and kerry are in their faces....again, it's all together different in their minds. [sigh]
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
"One thing is for sure: the extremists have faith in our weakness. And the weaker we are, the more they will come after us." --Tony Blair
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
"The War on Terror will not be won until America is united. And as long as Democrats target the Bush administration--not the terrorists--as the enemy, we are in trouble." --Oliver North
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Those are only two reasons why we need to:
Re-elect President Bush!!!
[ edited by Linda_K on Sep 9, 2004 05:30 PM ]
posted on September 9, 2004 05:38:17 PM new
Linda, with a dramatic sigh, says,"No, you really have to believe those who protested the VN war, those totally against war, the anti-American - pro-communist groups that led the protestors... RATHER THAN believing those who ACTUALLY SERVED in that war."
You mean like BUSH, the drunken cokesnorting cowardly piece of garbage that didn't serve at all...oh, ya, he flew a plane ...once.
And,Linda, the world view of the Vietnam War is that it was a huge mistake...even people who were for it then now realize what a horrible mistake it was.
Of course, they don't know that YOU are smarter than everyone and KNOW that if a person was against the slaughter of our troops and innocent civilians over a mistake then they MUST be Communists..,.....ya, right linda, you dope.
posted on September 9, 2004 05:50:16 PM new
lindak, This record release does not depend on interpretation by a news reporter. They are facts as recorded on Bush's military record. So your effort to atribute the news to bias does not float. In addition to MSNBC and CNN, every other news channel and newspaper is reporting the fact that Bush fell well short of meeting his military obligation.
posted on September 9, 2004 06:30:10 PM new
As I've already stated helen....this is all rehash....kerry's actions are new to the public...and they're not over yet.
From MSNBC First Read today -
That said, as we have mentioned here before, still hanging out there largely unaddressed are Kerry's anti-war activities, which we believe pack a potentially more powerful wallop for the Vietnam vet than the ongoing story about Bush's Guard service does for Bush.
And I agree. Even dems might not like that kerry sided against those still serving...against his country's action...and the fact that the communists honored him for helping their side in the VN war.
Whether or not you support any war....you certainly don't work against your own Nation's actions by helping the enemy win as kerry and fonda did. They should have been tried for TREASON.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
"One thing is for sure: the extremists have faith in our weakness. And the weaker we are, the more they will come after us." --Tony Blair
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
"The War on Terror will not be won until America is united. And as long as Democrats target the Bush administration--not the terrorists--as the enemy, we are in trouble." --Oliver North
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Those are only two reasons why we need to:
Re-elect President Bush!!!
[ edited by Linda_K on Sep 9, 2004 06:35 PM ]
John Kerry's effort to end the Vietnam War was a tremendous success appreciated by most Vietnam Veterans and Americans. To insinuate that he made this effort to benefit communists is apallingly ignorant.
posted on September 9, 2004 07:12:57 PM new
I insunate nothing helen. The communist leader said so himself.
And kerry has been honored for his 'help' from the communists.
That alone speeks volumes...than no anti-war person can claim it doesn't.
We need to elect a leader that's on OUR side...not our enemies...not our so-called allies who side against us. OUR SIDE.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
"One thing is for sure: the extremists have faith in our weakness. And the weaker we are, the more they will come after us." --Tony Blair
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
"The War on Terror will not be won until America is united. And as long as Democrats target the Bush administration -- not the terrorists -- as the enemy, we are in trouble." --Oliver North
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Those are only two reasons why we need to:
posted on September 9, 2004 07:27:43 PM new
'60 Minutes' Documents on Bush Might Be Fake
By Robert B. Bluey
CNSNews.com Staff Writer
September 09, 2004
(CNSNews.com) - The 32-year-old documents produced Wednesday by the CBS News program "60 Minutes," shedding a negative light on President Bush's service in the Texas Air National Guard, may have been forged using a current word processing program, according to typography experts.
Three independent typography experts told CNSNews.com they were suspicious of the documents from 1972 and 1973 because they were typed using a proportional font, not common at that time, and they used a superscript font feature found in today's Microsoft Word program.
The "60 Minutes" segment included an interview with former Texas lieutenant governor Ben Barnes, who criticized Bush's service. The news program also produced a series of memos that claim Bush refused to follow an order to undertake a medical examination.
The documents came from the "personal office file" of Bush's former squadron commander Jerry B. Killian, according to Kelli Edwards, a spokeswoman for "60 Minutes," who was quoted in Thursday's Washington Post. Edwards declined to tell the Post how the news program obtained the documents.
But the experts interviewed by CNSNews.com homed in on several aspects of a May 4, 1972, memo, which was part of
the "60 Minutes" segment and was posted on the CBS News website Thursday.
"It was highly out of the ordinary for an organization, even the Air Force, to have proportional-spaced fonts for someone to work with," said Allan Haley, director of words and letters at Agfa Monotype in Wilmington, Mass. "I'm suspect in that I did work for the U.S. Army as late as the late 1980s and early 1990s and the Army was still using [fixed-pitch typeface] Courier."
The typography experts couldn't pinpoint the exact font used in the documents. They also couldn't definitively conclude that the documents were either forged using a current computer program or were the work of a high-end typewriter or word processor in the early 1970s.
But the use of the superscript "th" in one document - "111th F.I.S" - gave each expert pause. They said that is an automatic feature found in current versions of Microsoft Word, and it's not something that was even possible more than 30 years ago.
"That would not be possible on a typewriter or even a word processor at that time," said John Collins, vice president and chief technology officer at Bitstream Inc., the parent of MyFonts.com.
"It is a very surprising thing to see a letter with that date [May 4, 1972] on it," and featuring such typography, Collins added. "There's no question that that is surprising. Does that force you to conclude that it's a fake? No. But it certainly raises the eyebrows."
Fred Showker, who teaches typography and introduction to digital graphics at James Madison University in Harrisonburg, Va., questioned the documents' letterhead.
"Let's assume for a minute that it's authentic," Showker said. "But would they not have used some form of letterhead? Or has this letterhead been intentionally cut off? Notice how close to the top of the page it is."
He also pointed to the signature of Killian, the purported author of the May 4, 1972, memo ordering Bush, who was at the time a first lieutenant in the Texas Air National Guard, to obtain a physical exam.
"Do you think he would have stopped that 'K' nice and cleanly, right there before it ran into the typewriter 'Jerry," Showker asked. "You can't stop a ballpoint pen with a nice square ending like that ... The end of that 'K' should be round ... it looks like you took a pair of snips and cut it off so you could see the 'Jerry.'"
The experts also raised questions about the military's typewriter technology three decades ago. Collins said word processors that could produce proportional-sized fonts cost upwards of $20,000 at the time.
"I'm not real sure that you would have that kind of sophistication in the office of a flight inspector in the United States government," Showker said.
"The only thing it could be, possibly, is an IBM golf ball typewriter, which came out around the early to middle 1970s," Haley said. "Those did have proportional fonts on them. But they weren't widely used."
But Haley added that the use of the superscript "th" cast doubt on the use of any typewriter.
"There weren't any typewriters that did that," Haley said. "That looks like it might be a function of something like Microsoft Word, which does that automatically."
According to an article on the CBS News website, the news program "consulted a handwriting analyst and document expert who believes the document is expert who believes the material is authentic."
lindak....I'm not going to try to bring you up to speed on the Vietnam war. Read a book such as Vietnam, A History by Stanley Karnow. And if you want to know the truth about John Kerry's participation in that war and his effort to end the war, read Tour of Duty by Douglas Brinkley.
posted on September 9, 2004 07:37:53 PM new
helen - Even Brinkley is asking kerry to open up his military records now....since kerry made statements to him and are in HIS book that kerry is now saying differently.
I don't have to read anything about VN. I lived it. We had many friends who fought in that war and some who died in that war. kerry and fonda and their 'likes' communists supporters were on the TV all the time during the VN war. I know how kerry acted...I know what kerry said...I'm not taking it from anything being printed now.
He should have been tried for TREASON. He sided AGAINST our nation. He'll always be a traitor imo. And at that time even McCain said his actions caused our POWS more torture...
Just WAIT until this discussion starts in the news. The POWs and their families are getting ready to let the public know what kerry did.
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"One thing is for sure: the extremists have faith in our weakness. And the weaker we are, the more they will come after us." --Tony Blair
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"The War on Terror will not be won until America is united. And as long as Democrats target the Bush administration -- not the terrorists -- as the enemy, we are in trouble." --Oliver North
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Those are only two reasons why we need to:
I guess that means it comes on at 8 here. Whats on it tonight?
