posted on November 28, 2004 04:10:39 AM new
Nov 24, 12:31 AM EST
KANSAS CITY, Mo. (AP) -- The American Civil Liberties Union on Tuesday sued a southwest Missouri school district for prohibiting a high school student from wearing gay pride-themed T-shirts.
The district has said the T-shirts were disruptive and therefore a violation of school dress code. The lawsuit filed in federal court also names Webb City High School Principal Stephen P. Gollhofer.
"Because I'm gay, my school is trying to take away my constitutional right as an American to express myself," the student, Brad Mathewson, said in a statement.
"The school lets other students wear anti-gay T-shirts, and I understand that they have a right to do that," he said. "I just want the same right."
The 16-year-old junior started attending the high school this year. On Oct. 20, he came to class wearing a shirt from the Gay-Straight Alliance at his former high school in Fayetteville, Ark.
Mathewson was told either to turn the shirt inside out or to go home and change. Instead, Mathewson traded shirts with a friend, who wore the shirt without incident the rest of the day.
On Oct. 27, Mathewson wore a T-shirt bearing the phrase, "I'm gay and I'm proud." He left school after refusing Gollhofer's request to turn the shirt inside out, and was briefly suspended.
He returned to school Nov. 2 after promising not to wear gay-themed T-shirts until the issue could be resolved
Ron Lankford, superintendent of the Webb City R-7 school district, said Tuesday afternoon that while he had not seen a copy of the lawsuit, the district plans to contest it.
"I suppose this is why you have a court proceeding," Lankford said. "One side of the story has already been told, and this will be an opportunity to present the side that hasn't been told."
He declined to be more specific.
The ACLU is basing its case on a 1969 Supreme Court ruling that said schools cannot force students to give up their right to freedom of expression.
I believe the ACLU will be using the case in which they successfully fought a school district for suspending students for wearing black armbands in opposition of the Vietnam War.
The court ruled the a student doesn't give up his right to expression when he enters into the school building.
posted on November 28, 2004 07:59:09 AM new
Children don't have a right to drink until age X (depends on the state)
Children don't have a right to have sex until age X (depends on the state)
Children don't have a right to marry until age X (depends on the state)
Children don't have a right to work until age X (depends on the state)
Why should they have freedom of expression or freedom of steech before a certain "grownup" age? As Twelve says, this kid is in for a ton of trouble due to the publicity. He's not old enough to know that he may have destroyed his own future.
--------------------------------------
We do not stop playing because we grow old. We grow old because we stop playing -- Anonymous
posted on November 28, 2004 08:56:18 AM new
This is one reason you will soon see all schools, public and private, wearing uniforms. In our school district in which I live all offensive T shirts or other wearing apparel is illegal and they either turn the shirts inside out or go home. Plain and simple. Now they are considering a dress code. The parents are allowing children to wear inappropriate clothing to school and something has to be done. We are not in the 60's. Where in that era it was safe to ware apparel like that but it is dangerous now. i.e. to short skirts, Skimpy tops, Boys in T shirts with offensive sayings. Yes shirts that have a religious connotation.
_________________
To Quote John Kerry in his concession speech. "But in an american election, there are no losers, because whether or not our candidates are successful, the next morning we all wake up as Americans
posted on November 28, 2004 09:37:46 AM new
The only problem I see here is if the school allowed other students to wear T-shirts with anti-gay slogans on them. And you have to wonder why another student was allowed to wear the boy's shirt without consequence. Kind of makes it look like they had targeted him.
I don't think provocative slogans on clothing belong in school, particularly if they involve hot button issues like sexuality and religion, but if administrators allow some but not all, they need to be called to task for it.
What's most difficult for educators is the way dress codes are selectively enforced. I've seen female teachers and administrators come down really hard on more physically mature girls who may be breaking a dress code rule, while the less developed girls are allowed to skate. I also know male teachers who won't enforce rules against girls because they are afraid to admit they're even noticing.
Regarding provocative slogans, where do you draw the line? If the kid gets in trouble for wearing a "Gay and Proud" T-shirt, then in my opinion, the kid who wears a "Straight and Proud" shirt should too. Both are sexual references, both should either be allowed or banned equally.
Every year I stay in this game, uniforms look better and better.
____________________________________________
Dick Cheney: "I have not suggested there's a connection between Iraq and 9/11..."
posted on November 28, 2004 10:18:44 AM new
Profe, I agree that all those provacative subjects should not be made into clothing
And I'm all for school uniforms, too. I know back when I went to public schools, I was always the one in KMart clothes. They were nice clothes, and there were always those poor kids in China who didn't have ANY clothes, but still, the other kids had Nike this and Adidas that, and always made me feel like poor trash cause my mother thought buying five pairs of pants for the same money as one pair of big-brand pants was smart
Why dd they single out this guy? Simple.
If a known "straight" kid wears a "gay pride" T shirt, he's a liberal. If an actual "gay" kid wears the same shirt, it's a sign saying "look I'm gay! Beat me up!" One invites debate, the other invites beatings. It's unfortunate, but anyone who has ever been to a public schools KNOWS I'm telling the truth.
--------------------------------------
We do not stop playing because we grow old. We grow old because we stop playing -- Anonymous
posted on November 28, 2004 10:40:01 AM newWhy should they have freedom of expression or freedom of steech before a certain "grownup" age?
all those provacative subjects should not be made into clothing
Wow. Two of the most terrifing opinions I ever have seen on this board and both come from the same person in the same thread.
All I have to say to you Replay is to beware of the adult that you create when you squash all attempts of individuality and self expression in their youth.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
posted on November 28, 2004 11:47:41 AM new
So you approve of the kids all wearing various Cop Killer rapper T-shirts?
What about your typical 14 year old girl in a miniskirt?
How about kids with tattoos & piercings?
Freedom of speech is one of the most important rights we have. But free speech requires responsibility. Children are by definition not responsible. There is a reason children cannot drive cars.
Children do not get all the rights and priviledges of adults. It's always been that way, and always will be.
Fenix, if THAT terrifies you, then you've obviously never had to deal with thug-rapper-lifestyle "children" displaying their freedom of expression with weapons in your neighborhood.
A little conformity isn't going to destroy America. Too much individual expression might.
--------------------------------------
We do not stop playing because we grow old. We grow old because we stop playing -- Anonymous
posted on November 28, 2004 11:54:38 AM new
Replay, when I was in school, we wore mini skirts. Some went bra-less. Some wore anti-Viet Nam t-shirts. Nobody died because of it. Don't you remember being young?
posted on November 28, 2004 12:12:39 PM new
I had to wear a uniform from the first grade until I graduated...navy tunics/white long sleeve blouses and navy knee socks in grade school...
High School.. Gray pleated skirt, white shirt, dark green blazer. All skirts had to be knee length. And this was not a Catholic school. If you turned up at school out of uniform, you were sent home.. As teens we hated the uniforms but now, I see that it was the best idea. Everyone was neat, it gave a sense of belonging and pride in your school. Geesh.. we even had PE uniforms.. LOL..ugly things...and I know that it didn't stunt my individuality!! LOL
posted on November 28, 2004 12:37:57 PM newSo you approve of the kids all wearing various Cop Killer rapper T-shirts?
Cop Killer is a 15 year old album Replay (and one recorded by a guy that now portrays a cop on Law & Order and just did a Target wake up call & commercial)... if you are going to going attack pop culture, try to use example from the current decade. Also try to know something about the music styles and their corresponding styles. Rap fans are very unlikley to be ever be seen wearing T-shirt bearing their fav stars. Winterland is not a popular designer in the Rap and Hip Hop cultures.
What about your typical 14 year old girl in a miniskirt?
What about it?
How about kids with tattoos & piercings?
All for them, I have few myself. Got my first over 20 years ago and I don't think it has been detrimental to a single person in all that time.
::Freedom of speech is one of the most important rights we have. But free speech requires responsibility. Children are by definition not responsible. There is a reason children cannot drive cars.::
That would be because you can kill someone with a car. Do you happen to have any examples of murder by Tattoo, Flesh Tunnel, Mini skirt, or Concert T that I should know about?
::Fenix, if THAT terrifies you, then you've obviously never had to deal with thug-rapper-lifestyle "children" displaying their freedom of expression with weapons in your neighborhood.::
Replay, sweetie, honey... I live in downtown San Diego. A city that was outpacing Los Angeles for gang activity ealier this year. A trip to 7-11 means running the crack gauntlet. I have ducked bullets fired in a dispute between two pimps while getting a manicure and had a 16 year old die with his head in my lap after being shot by a 17 year old. PLEASE do not presume to tell me about gangs. I know quite a few members, former members etc. they are part of the community. You know something, not a single one of them joined a gang because of a T-Shirt, a mini-shirt or a tattoo. Turn off Fox News and join the world you live in.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
[ edited by fenix03 on Nov 28, 2004 01:36 PM ]
posted on November 28, 2004 01:01:39 PM new
Maggie Said I had to wear a uniform from the first grade until I graduated...navy tunics/white long sleeve blouses and navy knee socks in grade school... High School.. Gray pleated skirt, white shirt, dark green blazer. All skirts had to be knee length. And this was not a Catholic school. If you turned up at school out of uniform, you were sent home..
Like I said... Fear the adult that results from the squashing of individuality as a youth
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
posted on November 28, 2004 01:41:11 PM new
Individuality is a good thing? So another teenager expresses his "individuality" by using that homosexual's head as a punching bag... so that is ok too...
I see, so the guy that rapes that young girl is just expressing his individuality...
Whose individuality are you speaking for? Most people talk of that, but seem to forget they are basing it on themselves and not the good of society...
Anyone can have freedom of speech, but seems no one wants to take responsibility for consequences of that action...
AIN'T LIFE GRAND...
[ edited by Twelvepole on Nov 28, 2004 01:53 PM ]
posted on November 28, 2004 02:08:28 PM new
Twelve - If you don't know the difference between wearing a T-shirt and commiting rape then there truly is no point in you partaking in the discussion.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
posted on November 28, 2004 02:13:46 PM new"So another teenager expresses his "individuality" by using that homosexual's head as a punching bag... so that is ok too..."
You were an adult when you did the same thing Twelve, and you still think it was OK.
posted on November 28, 2004 02:21:23 PM new
I meant "Cop Killer" in a generic way. That specific album was a long time ago, but it's been duplicated by every rapper out there. All the music kids listen to is about beatin up your 'Ho or stealing a car or some other civic minded activities.
I don't keep with up with Rap. Hip-hop my butt, it's still rap. Same culture.
Don't explain it to me, cause I know way more than I want to about it. I used to own a CD shop. I know what the music is about. That's why I refused to carry it at the end. That junk is all anyone wanted, and I wouldn't carry it anymore, so eventually I got out of the music business.
You don't think this stuff influences kids? Listening to that stuff, emulating the stars, dressing like them, talking like them? Am I a "music bigot?" Yeah, definitely. This is not a racial thing, that kind of music messes up ALL the kids.
And don't give me any crap about me being too old to keep up, I'm still in my 30's.
ummm... How did we get from discussing a gay kid to me doing a music review?
--------------------------------------
We do not stop playing because we grow old. We grow old because we stop playing -- Anonymous
Replay, Some people grow old before their time. You think that music messes up ALL the kids? You sound like my old sunday school teacher in the south who believed that music and dancing was a sin.
posted on November 28, 2004 02:37:42 PM new
Well, not ALL the kids, I meant whites as well as blacks. I was making the point that my comments were not racial.
OBVIOUSLY not all kids are affected. But some are. TOO MANY are.
"You sound like my old sunday school teacher"
I knew that line or something really close was coming.
No, I am not against music and dancing. I am against indoctinating children that beating women, stealing cars, and killing people is not only OK, but it's to be emulated. Next thing you know we'll be telling high schoolers that it's OK to be gay.
THERE! NOW WE'RE BACK ON TOPIC
--------------------------------------
We do not stop playing because we grow old. We grow old because we stop playing -- Anonymous
posted on November 28, 2004 02:40:26 PM new
Replay - I never said you were too old, just that you are too dated and not really informaed on what it is you are railing about. You think that they should not be allowed to wear Rap t-shirts and I pointed out that they don't. Hell the only music genre that still does decent t-shirt sales is country and rock. Do you support a ban on Toby Keith shirts too?
As for how it turned to a music review... I don't know .... you did that one. By the sounds of things you seem to also want to control listening habits. Other than when to go to the bathroom, I was curious as to what decisions you think teens are capable of making themselves?
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
posted on November 28, 2004 02:52:38 PM new
Replay - Were you that guillible in your teens? I mean I went used to work with music myself. Listened to Holy Soldier and Stryper but never became a christian, early Sepultura but never learned portuguese, Dr Hook but never strived to make the cover of Rolling Stone or be Queen of the Silver Dollar, and Nina Simone but never imagined myself Young, Beautiful, & Black. It's music. That's it. The only people who fall victim to it are so mentally weak they would fall victim to a decently produced commercial as well. Should we start baanning those?
I'm sorry but I don't think government needs to be raising and instilling values in kids. They can't even balance a checkbook. It's a parents job, not the schools, not the governments. What's amazing to me is that you think that wearing a t-shirt is obviously wrong but seem to be standing up for the rights of those so immature and impulse driven that they must result to violence in the face of an idea that they don't agree with.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
[ edited by fenix03 on Nov 28, 2004 02:54 PM ]
posted on November 28, 2004 02:57:29 PM new
I know very well the difference, but you individuality folks seem to draw lines that you seem to think that is ok...
But then you quash others "individuality" just goes to show that I am right and "individuality" is overrated...
I don't think the t-shirt should be allowed... he does not have a "right" to wear it to a public school...
posted on November 28, 2004 03:05:23 PM new
Twelve, if one group can wear anti-gay t-shirts why shouldn't others be allowed to wear pro-gay t-shirts?
Using your analogy Twelve, you say you don't hate gays but question their lifestyle. If I say the same thing about another issue, you say I hate the issue. Which is it?
posted on November 28, 2004 03:10:11 PM new
"standing up for the rights of those so immature and impulse driven that they must result to violence"
That paragraph was a little hard to follow, but I THINK you are referring to when I said the kid was going to get beat up. I'm certainly not advocating that. But I am not blind enough to think it doesn't happen, and often too.
Kids get into fights all the time for no reason. If there IS a reason, as in this case, it's going to happen more often or be more severe.
In my day (Way back in the dark ages of the 80's) the class bullies beat up the kid who spoke with a lisp or walked with a limp. Nowdays the "gay" kids are the ones targeted.
It's not that they didn't have gays when I went to school, but no one talked about it. I don't see the problem with that.
It's not supporting prejudice and violence to admit that it exists. It DOES exist, and this kid, by using his "right to expression" irresponsibly, has opened himself up to physical attacks, hate crimes, future job discrimination, and who knows what else.
--------------------------------------
We do not stop playing because we grow old. We grow old because we stop playing -- Anonymous
posted on November 28, 2004 03:12:05 PM new
There should be no "statement" shits period... but then we only have the homosexuals word that there were anti-gay shirts being worn...
They could of been in support of thier new constitutional amendments...
I don't "hate" homosexuals... I hate homosexuality...
posted on November 28, 2004 03:12:44 PM new
Replay, that kind of behaviour is passed along by parents. If the parents think gays should be beat up, so will the kids.
