posted on August 13, 2005 09:49:56 AM new
For illegals, a spreading backlash
CALDWELL, IDAHO – This oasis of irrigated farm country in the high desert is a long way from the US-Mexico border, and even farther from the nation's capital, but it represents America's new battleground on immigration policy.
Here county commissioner Robert Vasquez is trying to do what he says Washington won't: crack down on illegal immigration. He recently sued several local employers in a novel bid to use federal anticorruption law to prevent hiring illegals.
Mr. Vasquez's controversial crusade is part of a larger pattern. As the border continues to be punctured by illicit crossings, and as immigrants spread to places unaccustomed to or unprepared for the influx, a local backlash is building.
The moves, ranging from police arrests in New Hampshire to community activism in Tennessee, point to a sharp political divide. At the very least, they signal a rift among conservatives among conservatives that may be growing more pronounced, as President Bush seeks an accommodative policy but faces resistance from some other Republicans such as Vasquez.
But the attempted crackdowns also reveal a larger rift - one that separates much of Main Street America from the nation's policymaking elite. At a time when Congress is considering guest-worker programs to legalize more undocumented workers, polls show most Americans want to see illegal immigration curbed.
Local lawsuits and policies will hardly achieve that goal by themselves, but if successful they could create pressure for stronger federal action.
"The public agrees on certain things, and one of these is the distinction between legal and illegal immigration," says Steven Camarota of the Center for Immigration Studies. But "in the end it's mostly within Washington's purview."
Indeed, Vasquez is seeking to take his fight to the nation's capital. He hopes to win a seat in Congress in 2006 and push for stricter immigration policies alongside Rep. Tom Tancredo (R) of Colorado.
But first he faces a hearts-and-minds battle here in Canyon County as he presses his lawsuits along with two fellow commissioners.
Caldwell, the community where Vasquez's office sits in the county courthouse, is oriented around a railroad track and the Farm City Agribusiness Park. Where some streets sport freshly painted bungalows and lush lawns, others are defined by trailer homes that have seen better decades. What binds the 26,000 residents together, however, is a tradition of hard work in the nearby fields, shops, and food-processing plants.
Vasquez, whose grandfather came from Mexico, complains of an "unarmed invasion" that is fast transforming American towns like this one. "Why," he asks, "should I have to 'Press 1 for English?' "
But if cultural change is a key backdrop of the debate, both sides frame their views largely around economic arguments.
On that score, many here support the effort to clamp down on illegal laborers.
"They say these are jobs that no one else will take," says Tim Smallwood, an Idaho fruit and vegetable inspector, as he takes a lunch break in Caldwell. But if employers were denied that pool of cheap labor, overall wages would go up he says.
Lori Morrison, who manages a night shift at Jack-in-the-Box to help support her family, shares the worry about wages. And she adds another concern: the social-service burden on government. "Taxes have gone up," she says. "They're killing us."
But others see the dollars and cents differently. They say immigrants have traditionally filled the lowest rung, those often unwanted jobs, as they climb toward better lives.
"We understand that there's a problem with illegal immigration," says Keith Esplin, executive director of Potato Growers of Idaho. But he says there's a shortage of workers willing to do strenuous jobs in agriculture, construction, and landscaping.
He calls for expanded guest-worker program, a move supported by Sen. Larry Craig (R) of Idaho among others. And Mr. Esplin says it's unfair to place the onus on employers as gatekeepers: "An employer has no way of knowing when he gets a document from a worker whether it's false or real."
In the long run, some say the Real ID Act, passed by Congress this spring to ensure authenticity of driver's licenses, could help employers hire only legal residents.
In the short run, the fact is that relatively few employers are prosecuted for hiring illegal workers.
To some experts, current policies are simply out of step with labor-market reality.
"There is no legal channel for [millions of undocumented workers] to be here, yet they need to be here," says Christina DeConcini, director of policy at the National Immigration Forum in Washington. "We need their labor to do these jobs."
Citing the positions of key leaders in both parties, she says the political climate is shifting, nationally, toward this recognition.
But there's still plenty of fuel for local backlashes like the one Vasquez leads.
A new CBS poll finds that two-thirds of Americans oppose guest-worker permits for those who are now here illegally. And in a June Gallup survey, 70 percent said the US shouldn't make it easier for illegal immigrants to become citizens.
Those opinions have hardened into action in some states and localities:
• In New Hampshire, police arrested alleged illegal immigrants using a state law on "criminal trespass." A judge is expected to rule soon on a bid to dismiss the charges.
• In Arizona, voters approved a November ballot measure denying some public benefits to illegal immigrants. This week a federal appeals court upheld the law.
• In 18 states from California to Minnesota and Tennessee, groups have sprung up with affiliations to the Minuteman Project, which coordinated a highly publicized volunteer effort earlier this year to patrol Arizona's border with Mexico.
"Why, it appears that we appointed all of our worst generals to command the armies and we appointed all of our best generals to edit the newspapers. I mean, I found by reading a newspaper that these editor generals saw all of the defects plainly from the start but didn't tell me until it was too late. I'm willing to yield my place to these best generals and I'll do my best for the cause by editing a newspaper." --Robert E. Lee
posted on August 13, 2005 10:02:36 AM new
Why should I have to 'press 1' for English?
We shouldn't have to. But the facts are the Mexicans that have entered legally or illegally have gained the political 'clout' to force the US to make all kinds of changes like this. Used to be immigrants wanted to learn to speak English...infiltrate into our system. No longer. And they are the fastest growing race in American. I expect in my Granddaughters adult generation the recorded messages will be saying 'press 1 for Spanish'.
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
posted on August 13, 2005 10:18:28 AM new
Political correctness will be the death of us all..............
Why should there be an option of anything BUT english.
There isn't (yet) an option for Canadian, Vietnamese, Farsi, Greek, French, German or Italian...
"Why, it appears that we appointed all of our worst generals to command the armies and we appointed all of our best generals to edit the newspapers. I mean, I found by reading a newspaper that these editor generals saw all of the defects plainly from the start but didn't tell me until it was too late. I'm willing to yield my place to these best generals and I'll do my best for the cause by editing a newspaper." --Robert E. Lee
[ edited by Bear1949 on Aug 13, 2005 10:22 AM ]
posted on August 13, 2005 10:28:42 AM newThere isn't (yet) an option for Canadian
I didn't know there was a language called Canadian. I thought some people in Canada spoke FRENCH.
Do the people of the UK speak British
Absolute faith has been shown, consistently, to breed intolerance. And intolerance, history teaches us, again and again, begets violence.
----------------------------------
President George Bush: "Over time the truth will come out."
President George Bush: "Our people are going to find out the truth, and the truth will say that this intelligence was good intelligence. There's no doubt in my mind."
Bush was right. The truth did come out and the facts are he misled Congress and the American people about the reasons we should go to war in Iraq.
posted on August 13, 2005 11:05:10 AM newI didn't know there was a language called Canadian
I guess you really are as dense as you seem.....
"Why, it appears that we appointed all of our worst generals to command the armies and we appointed all of our best generals to edit the newspapers. I mean, I found by reading a newspaper that these editor generals saw all of the defects plainly from the start but didn't tell me until it was too late. I'm willing to yield my place to these best generals and I'll do my best for the cause by editing a newspaper." --Robert E. Lee
posted on August 13, 2005 11:06:04 AM new
Only one small province,Quebec, in Canada is majority French speaking. Canada is an English speaking country in majority.
posted on August 13, 2005 11:40:52 AM new
I agree with bear, we are an English speaking Nation....who is being PC'd to death.
When I worked at an HMO in CA....we had to use the services of different translating services in order to communicate with 9 different lauguages because our of patients who couldn't speak a word of English. Who pays for those translation services? The CA taxpayers in HIGHER medical care expenses.
Also approx. 6-7 years ago in CA there was an article in the San Jose Mercury News...that stated the white race were now [then] in the minority class in CA. That's how much things have changed there. And their political ballots are in at LEAST 6-8 different lanugages now.
Who pays for all those costs? The CA taxpayers do.
`~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
[ edited by Linda_K on Aug 13, 2005 11:44 AM ]
posted on August 13, 2005 11:47:30 AM newI didn't know there was a language called Canadian
I guess you really are as dense as you seem.....
Try again feeble one Which village are you from so I can give them a call and say they are missing their idiot.
yeah..... the people of Japan speak Japanese, the people of China speak Chinese, so the people of Canada must speak Canadian...Good reasoning Bear. You can keep trying to get business to get a "CANADIAN" OPTION if you wish.
Absolute faith has been shown, consistently, to breed intolerance. And intolerance, history teaches us, again and again, begets violence.
----------------------------------
President George Bush: "Over time the truth will come out."
President George Bush: "Our people are going to find out the truth, and the truth will say that this intelligence was good intelligence. There's no doubt in my mind."
Bush was right. The truth did come out and the facts are he misled Congress and the American people about the reasons we should go to war in Iraq.
posted on August 13, 2005 12:19:10 PM newWhich village are you from so I can give them a call and say they are missing their idiot.
Your village called and said theu didn't want you back. In fact they removed your photo from the milk carton.
"Why, it appears that we appointed all of our worst generals to command the armies and we appointed all of our best generals to edit the newspapers. I mean, I found by reading a newspaper that these editor generals saw all of the defects plainly from the start but didn't tell me until it was too late. I'm willing to yield my place to these best generals and I'll do my best for the cause by editing a newspaper." --Robert E. Lee
posted on August 13, 2005 12:43:35 PM newAlso approx. 6-7 years ago in CA there was an article in the San Jose Mercury News...that stated the white race were now [then] in the minority class in CA. That's how much things have changed there. And their political ballots are in at LEAST 6-8 different lanugages now. Who pays for all those costs? The CA taxpayers do.
Linda, no kidding! Look at anything state or federal issued, your going to be looking longer to find ENGLISH. There are so many different languages, they try and fit them all on, and sometimes English is NOT at the top.
Why they have never made English the official language is beyond me.
If I go and live in say, Italy, I would learn Italian. I would not expect things to all have English on them, or everyone speak English, just for me
Its, when in Rome do as the Romans
Foriegn language countries I doubt highly would cater to English speaking people as we (U.S. English speaking peoples) cater to all the different languages there are! And I am sure it cost taxpayer dollars to have all these interpetations, and to have interpaters for every language
posted on August 13, 2005 12:59:32 PM newYour village called and said theu didn't want you back. In fact they removed your photo from the milk carton.
How were you able to understand them since they did not speak English? Did you speak back to them in Canadian?
Absolute faith has been shown, consistently, to breed intolerance. And intolerance, history teaches us, again and again, begets violence.
----------------------------------
President George Bush: "Over time the truth will come out."
President George Bush: "Our people are going to find out the truth, and the truth will say that this intelligence was good intelligence. There's no doubt in my mind."
Bush was right. The truth did come out and the facts are he misled Congress and the American people about the reasons we should go to war in Iraq.
posted on August 13, 2005 01:30:21 PM new
Nope....not fooling, NearTheSea. I remember it clearly because when I read it I said to my husband 'here's another reason I'm glad we're getting out of CA'.
We lived in an upper-middle class neighbor and at our local posted office, when dropping of my ebay packages, I often was the only white person in line. Even all the po clerks weren't white. So these weren't 'poor' immigrants either. They were buying homes in the $700,000. an up range.
Southern CA has more of the truly poor immigrants. More gang activity than we did in SJ. And more and more county costs because of so many more illegals that are there that the taxpayers are footing the bills for.
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
posted on August 13, 2005 01:43:17 PM new
Linda, I haven't kept up with the illegal immigration issue, so I wonder why they're allowed to continue to come to the U.S. illegally without anything happening to them. I know friends who've applied for immigration to the U.S. and it took years, then more years to get their green card to work. Where's the weak link?
posted on August 13, 2005 02:12:29 PM new
Krafty - either they "sneak" across the border or in some cases come on tourist visas and don't return. Usually it's the sneaking across the border part because getting a tourist visa can be a real pain in the butt. Basically you have to provide proof of assets, family, employment in Mexico that would provide incentive for you to return. Then there are the half dozen visits and interviews. It took about two-three months worth of work to get a friend of mine his tourist visa.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
No, I'm saying -- I'm merely -- I'm saying what I'm saying. I don't know why I'm always having people say, are you trying to say -- you know what you can do if you want to know what I'm saying is listen to what I'm saying. What I'm saying is what I said ...
posted on August 13, 2005 03:41:10 PM new
oops wrong thread..sorry
[ edited by maggiemuggins on Aug 13, 2005 03:41 PM ]
[ edited by maggiemuggins on Aug 13, 2005 03:43 PM ]
posted on August 13, 2005 03:52:55 PM new
KD - Sorry...I didn't see you post until now.
I agree with fenix on the 'sneakers' and the next group being those allowed in legally who don't leave when they should.
Speaking of languages...I already know that Canada has two 'official' languages....what they call [I believe 'native tongue - english] and French. But all I could find of all the languages spoken, and in what percentages of your population was from 1991. That study said Chinese was the third most used language - at that time. CHINESE???? I've read you have had a large influx of Arabs/Muslims/ME'ers....but had never heard about your the Chinese population.
Do you know?
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
posted on August 13, 2005 04:04:29 PM new
Linda, I know your post was directed to Krafty, but here I ran across these stats on a Canadian Government site.
In the 2001 census, 6,864,615 people listed French as a first language, of whom 85% lived in Quebec. 17,694,835 people listed English as a first language. 853,745 Chinese, 469,485 Italian, and 438,080 German...
posted on August 13, 2005 04:13:03 PM new
Thanks maggie. That's very similar to the study I read too....but was old and I was trying to find one as of 2004/2005.
We know how quickly things changed from 2002 to 2005 on the leprosy/TB thread [eeeeek ] that I thought maybe their immigration numbers could easily have changed dramatically too since then.
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
posted on August 13, 2005 04:27:16 PM new "We know how quickly things changed from 2002 to 2005 on the leprosy/TB thread [eeeeek ] that I thought maybe their immigration numbers could easily have changed dramatically too since then."
Your effort to use that bogus data against immigrants was blasted out of the water as a LIE. There was no dramatic change.
So save your dam eeeeek for your reaction when you see the dramatic change in the length of your nose.
posted on August 13, 2005 05:03:11 PM new
I live in a country where there are people of all cultures and for the most part I think it's wonderful as each has something good to offer and most are hard working individuals who are pleased to make Canada their home and contribute what they can. Though there are some problems, a whole race or culture shouldn't be blamed for what a few do. Though many still speak their 'mother-tongue', they also learn English.
During the past few years I've often wondered when reading here what some think when they are from another country and read some of the mean and narrow-minded comments that have been said here.
Texas, California, New Mexico and Hawaii are states with majority-minority populations and five other states...... Arizona, Georgia, Maryland, Mississippi and New York are not too far behind.
More emphasis should be spent on educating children to become accepting of all people they mix with daily so countries don't get more divided from within.
posted on August 13, 2005 05:21:22 PM new
LindaK from reading your post I get that you left California as there were too many non-whites. Is that correct?
posted on August 13, 2005 08:54:14 PM newLindaK from reading your post I get that you left California as there were too many non-whites. Is that correct?
Jeb said move away from there, California is not the place you want to be. So they loaded up the truck and moved to Eureka.
Springs that is.. Rednecks, trailer parks
Absolute faith has been shown, consistently, to breed intolerance. And intolerance, history teaches us, again and again, begets violence.
----------------------------------
President George Bush: "Over time the truth will come out."
President George Bush: "Our people are going to find out the truth, and the truth will say that this intelligence was good intelligence. There's no doubt in my mind."
Bush was right. The truth did come out and the facts are he misled Congress and the American people about the reasons we should go to war in Iraq.
posted on August 14, 2005 07:21:57 AM newDuring the past few years I've often wondered when reading here what some think when they are from another country and read some of the mean and narrow-minded comments that have been said here.
It means you arent in your MOTHER COUNTRY anymore...LEARN ENGLISH
"Why, it appears that we appointed all of our worst generals to command the armies and we appointed all of our best generals to edit the newspapers. I mean, I found by reading a newspaper that these editor generals saw all of the defects plainly from the start but didn't tell me until it was too late. I'm willing to yield my place to these best generals and I'll do my best for the cause by editing a newspaper." --Robert E. Lee
posted on August 14, 2005 12:19:29 PM new
I think we have to "press one for English" because those customer service numbers go to India now.
I do believe when someone comes to live in this country, they should learn English. I would have to learn Spanish if I lived in Mexico or French if I lived in France (or Quebec). Not only should they learn it, they should EXPECT to have to learn it.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Golfer:Stop checking your watch all the time,its too much of a distraction.
Caddy:Its not a watch, its a compass
] that I thought maybe their immigration numbers could easily have changed dramatically too since then.