posted on September 22, 2000 07:18:34 PM new
I am heartbroken over something that happened over 8 months ago.Bear with me though as it is a long story but I will try to keep it as short as possible.I have a son who is 21 now.Over 4 years ago he found a girlfriend.During the 4 years they were together,she became pregnant.Great news.Not quite.She had left my son and came back pregnant.So they didn't know if it was my sons baby or not.My son and her decided to raise the baby as his.Allthough I told them I didn't feel that was the right thing to do.Being that I felt the baby and the real father had a right to know.I accepted there decision.Me and his father told him repeatedly not to sign the birth ceritificate.That to find out if the baby was his first.Then if the baby was to take it from there.Well he signed it anyways.About one month after the baby was born,she took off again.My son could not find her or the baby for two months.He found her after he got a tip from someone.They made up but they didn't get back together.My son started taking the baby everyday.And taking care of the baby.This went on for three months.Well they had another fallout and my son called the police.She was arrested for domestic viloence.My son has not seen the baby since.It has been about 8 months.I can understand her being mad about going to jail.Her family has told her not to let my son see the baby.They have used every excuse as to why he cannot see the baby.Your son did this,he did that,things that went on when they were together.They are both young and they both did a lot of things they shouldn't have done.Mind you he never abused her or the child and was a very good father to the baby when he had him.But it all boils down to this jail thing.I have a daughter also and I know I would be upset and angry if my daughter was put in jail.This may or may not be his baby.But he and all of us love this baby and my son and us accepted the baby as his.I am just heartbroken over this.I haven't seen the baby either.She will not let the baby come to my house because my son lives here.I also have a 6 year old daughter that was very close to his girlfriend and with the baby,she keeps asking about them and says she misses them.I don't know what to tell her.I have talked with his old girlfriend about this and she says the baby has all the love it needs and he don't need his dad.Am I wrong to think that the right thing to do is let my son see the baby?And would this be enough justification to you as to tell someone not to let the other parent see the child? There is a lot more going on with this at this time with attorneys involved but it would be to long to put it all in here.I am starting to think that maybe I am wrong.Any comment would be appreciated.
posted on September 22, 2000 08:09:44 PM new
Sideslam,
As a grandma too, my heart goes out to you. I tried so hard through out my childrens' growing up years to believe that the best thing for any child is to know and feel the love of many people, regardless of my own, sometimes, contemptuous feelings towards an ex-husband or family I was not fond of. This needs to hold particularly true in this day and age of children out of wedlock, as well as divorce and remarriage. If the "adults" don't put their animosities to rest and let that child feel the love of all that truly do love him, they are causing harm to the one they seek to protect (in their minds.)
Somewhere in the Old Testiment there is an analogy of a child being offered up, to those who battled the custody of that child, to be cut in half so the families could each have half of him. (Greatly paraphrased.) But the principle is the same then as is today. Adults need to act like adults when it comes to the love of a child. The more people this child knows loves him, the better off his life will be.
posted on September 22, 2000 08:16:42 PM new
I am so terribly sorry that this little baby has been born into such a mess. I have two sons and started telling them right off that this situation is one of many heartbreaking things that can happen if they have sex without commitment, as I'm sure you did. I, too, would be heartbroken over the situation. What's such a hard lesson, I guess, for your family is that what is right, and what we want, are often beyond our control. No, I don't think your feelings are wrong - you love a baby- that's a very good thing. You will be in my prayers- that baby needs you.
posted on September 22, 2000 10:26:19 PM new
I'm sorry you're going through this. Honestly, I would think that the first order of business should be in establishing the parentage of this baby. If you can prove (and it's easy to do) that your son is the father then it should help you to be able to demand your rights as a grandparent. I realize that the test may prove that you aren't the grandparent - and that would be hard to deal with. But, you can better serve this child by establishing early on whether you have any legal rights and then excercising them.
It seems that until your son proves he is the father - your daughter in law will continue to hold all the cards and make all the decisions.
I sincerely wish you the best - it sounds like you're caught in the middle.
posted on September 23, 2000 04:47:53 AM new
What a nasty mess. I particularly feel for your son, who's emotionally invested in a baby that may not even be his (and he doesn't care whether it is, which shows what an excellent job his parents did at teaching him what's really important in life! Good for you).
I'd meet with a lawyer specializing in family law. The consultation is generally free (or runs about $50). A profesional who's seen this sort of thing before and is therefore familiar with how others have handled it can be very, very, VERY helpful whether the intent is actually to litigate or not. You'd probably have to get a court order for a blood test of the baby anyway.
posted on September 23, 2000 09:05:52 AM new
The bottom line is that you take everything that has happened concerning the adults and through it out the door. Then you look at the baby and see what would be in it's best interests. Several thoughts/questions come to mind:
#1 - Unless your son is the bio dad - he may not have any rights as the time he spent may not be considered enough time to develop a bond that should not be broken (court's can decide that).
#2 - Your son should file an OSC and petition the court to take DNA tests to determine if he is the father. Then he has rights neither the girl or her family can take away. But that also means he has to pay child support etc.
#3 - BTW - the daughter putting his name on the birth certificate is a big plus as far as visiting rights may be concerned even if he is not the father. He should make sure he has documented the time he has spent with the child.
#3 - You are not wrong in wanting your son and family to see the child. The more loving relationships a child has the better. However; I would not encourage your son and this girl to be together as it appears that it is a volatile relationship and the child does not need that.
IMHO only - I would make sure if your son pursues this he has every intention of being a part of that child's life, whether it is his or not, forever. That means for all future relationships he needs to tell them he has a little girl or daughter he sees etc. It cannot be a fly by night thing. That would be very detrimental to the child's welfare. But if he and your family are willing, even if the child is not his, to be a part of the baby's life forever then pursue it legally.
Make sure if she agrees to visitation that you get a court order. Easily filed using an OSC. (Order to show cause). Without an order she can come and go as she pleases and your son will have no rights.
In addition, with an order, depending on the city and State, 70% of police departments do not enforce child visitation orders. They are civil matters and they do not like being involved. So basically if your son has her this weekend and the mother says no, calling the police may only get a report not the baby with him. Then you have to accrue report after report and go back to civil court for the judge to order the other party to allow the visitation. Usually the judge just asks if they are aware they are supposed to do this and then says do it - a slap on the hand.
Basically the person with primary custody can do whatever they want unless you want to fight them in court.
The best is that if you are all willing to see this child - your son makes every attempt possible to get along with the mother and their family so that he does get visitation, otherwise it can be at her whim.
Wheww... sorry so winded just thought I would give you advice as we have been through it and I have helped many others through cases just like this.
posted on September 23, 2000 10:23:09 AM new
Thanks for all you thoughts on this. My son did go to court to obtain rights to get the DNA test. The mother never showed up for the court case. The judge granted the right for him to do this,since she never showed up.But I don't know how much good that does if she won't show up.So where do we go from here.I don't know.
posted on September 23, 2000 11:59:43 AM new
If she did not show up then you should get your OSC filed to obtain paternity visitation rights. The judge should also be holding her in contempt for not showing up. Have you gone back to court to let the judge know she did not show up?
They will enforce contempt orders so try to get the judge to issue them. She is in contempt of the court's order if she did not show up. Your son should however; go ahead and get his blood drawn so he has complied.
Keep us updated. She hasn't shown up for the blood test and she does not want him to have visitation - looks like there is a very good chance he is the father.
posted on September 23, 2000 02:05:57 PM new
Sideslam,
You have done a wonderful job and you've gotten such good advice already, I really can't add to it except to give you some more support. It's terrible to keep a baby or child away from the people who want to share their love. I also think just having your son's name on the birth certificate makes him the legal father. If she didn't show up in court probably establishes a pattern to follow for a good lawyer. I would keep track of everything in a log.
posted on September 23, 2000 07:24:53 PM new
We are in Michigan.The judge knows she didn't show up.He had to go in front of the judge to show why he should have the right to the DNA.She honestly does not know if my son is the father.Me and her talked about this many times. The judge never issued a contempt of court. He did though set up another court date.For her,the baby and my son to come in and set up a date for the DNA.
Will she show up,probably not.If the last court date is any indication.
posted on September 23, 2000 07:52:50 PM new
I'm curious as to whether there is any chance that the other possible father will show up at some point in the future and begin to try to claim his rights to the child?
I've never been involved in this kind of situation, so mine is just an opinion. (not an informed one) But, it seems to me that if there isn't a chance of another person showing up and claiming parentage then maybe the judge can just appoint your son as the other legal guardian even without the test to prove it?
I realize that the "legal" aspects don't matter to the heart - but since it sounds like the mother is perfectly willing to play games at the expense of the baby - then a legal standing will at least help you hold her feet to the fire so that she has real consequences when she tries to use the baby as a pawn.
If she continues to fly against the court maybe the judge can order her into counseling to help her see how this is effecting the baby.
posted on September 24, 2000 04:53:40 AM newsideslam, sounds like what the judge did was issue a "continuance" - basically reschedule the hearing, particularly if the woman's not represented by legal counsel.
I am getting the impression your son is doing this pro se - IOW, he doesn't have a lawyer? Not a good idea. This sort of case is a lot more complicated than, say, an eviction. Having legal counsel also shows the other side you're dead serious.
posted on September 24, 2000 05:13:16 AM new"more complicated than, say, an eviction". Heh, sure.
sideslam,
This has to be put into the mix: are you sure that your son's motives are not just to leverage the girl back?
I think he ought to step on, and be grateful for the escape she's provided him.
posted on September 24, 2000 07:49:08 AM new
HCQ -
You are absolutely correct. While you can handle a basic paternity/support case yourself, judges used to be lawyers and they do like to see you paying for their peers. In addition they will listen better even if you say the exact same thing.
KRS -
I totally agree with you too. That is why I think it is only in the child's best interests if the son is truly committing to the rest of his life with this child in it. Including child support etc. Otherwise, it is not fair to the child. If he isn't ready to commit to that both financially and time wise then he should move on.
When is the next court date? Has your son completed his part of the testing?
Good luck to you and your family.
[ edited by boysmommy3 on Sep 24, 2000 07:49 AM ]
posted on September 24, 2000 11:28:36 AM new
Yes he does have a lawyer.My husband told him to petion the court for a DNA test.If the baby is his he wants to pay the child support and be a part of his life.He loves this baby and he says he cannot spend the rest of his life wondering about this child.Yes he could take the easy way out and just walk away.Since she has made it so easy for him to. But his consience won't let him.I can't seem to let go either.I miss the little guy.What kind of person would that make me?If I just fogot about a child that may be my grandchild.To me at this point it does not even matter if this is my grandchild or not.We miss him.No this is not about my son getting her back.This is about morals,love, and doing what is right.
posted on September 24, 2000 02:11:28 PM new
Since I'm not a lawyer, I'm probably not going to use the correct words, but I'll try to express what I've heard that I understood to be true.
It's my understanding that what your son has done so far, declares him, in the eyes of the law, to be the father. He knew that there was a chance that biologically he was not the bio-dad, as did the mom, but he signed the papers and declared HIMSELF to be bio-dad.
He acted as the father, purchased food, clothing, visitations.
Now to compare your son to my recent memory.
As I understand a recent case, a married man believed himself to be a father, and acted as one. At some point, the couple decides to divorce (I think I recall mom got caught being unfaithful). He is told to pay child support, and he demands paternity test for the child, and it is found to be not his.
Court says it doesn't matter, he is on the paperwork as the father, he acted as the father, the child thinks he is the father. He has to pay child support, because in the eyes of the law, he is the father.
I think this is similar to your son. Once he starts, he can't get out, so if the parentage issue truly doesn't matter (should the DNA prove he is not bio-dad) he needs to get started now, and realize he's in it for the next 21 years at least.
While the lawyer does HIS thing, your son needs to do things on his own. He needs to pay traceable child support (check stubs, receipt etc) even if he hasn't been ordered to, because it sets the stage. He is ACTING like the father. Keep a journal. Record his every attempt to see the child. Record every disparaging remark mom makes, and that her family makes. Never, ever lose your temper in front of mom or her family. If they turn you away, go. Always come back clean. No threats, no angry words, no ammunition for them to use against you in court. Buy things, try to get them accepted, put them in the log. Have the rest of the family stay in touch with mom. Keep trying to see baby, just as any normal grandma, aunt etc would. Point is, baby is in FAMILY. Recent court case, I think grandparents have no right to visitation, so all you can do is help to build the case for your son as the father.
Good Luck.
