posted on February 10, 2009 02:32:03 PM new
What was said that was so offensive in the Octuplet discussion? Whatever it was, is it as offensive as this mother of 14?
Is this woman another sociopath? What's up with the lies?? It seems like everything she's said so far has been a lie. What have you heard?
Women that have children they can't afford is the biggest strain on the world's economy. It's been that way since I can remember, yet people keep repeating the same thing over and over and wonder why they're bankrupt. This is a heated topic that needs to be discussed until people get it.
If you've had one or more children that you couldn't or can't afford, you're part of the problem! Don't stick your head in the sand. Admit it and teach others to be more responsible.
posted on February 10, 2009 04:17:04 PM new
The on-topic discussion was going fine, then dad-of-stickboy showed up with some racist nonsense.
Re: "If you've had one or more children that you couldn't or can't afford, you're part of the problem!" Heck, even if you can afford it, it can still be a problem for the planet.
I think that if you boil down most problems in the world, you pretty quickly get to either one or both of 1) religion 2) overpopulation. In the interests of full disclosure, I have 4 children by 2 wives, so I didn't reduce the population any, but if every woman had 2 children, the population would stabilize.
When I say religion, I include in that all of the "higher" groupings that lead to tribalism, nationalism, etc. It's not easy to chop the neighbor up with a machete if you see them as the person you've lived near for years, gone to school with, played cards with, etc. But, if they're the OTHER (tribe, religion, ethnic group), it seems to happen all the time.
posted on February 10, 2009 06:27:13 PM new
That mom has been saying she won't accept welfare, but she gets food stamps and other help for three of her first six who have some problems, developmental or otherwise.
Is she stupid?? FOOD STAMPS ARE WELFARE.
_____________________
"Here in America we are descended in blood and in spirit from revolutionists and rebels - men and women who ***dared to dissent*** from accepted doctrine. As their heirs, ***may we never confuse honest dissent with disloyal subversion."*** --Eisenhower
posted on February 10, 2009 07:36:42 PM new
I have to admit that a part of me is real confused about why this is such a big issue for so many people. Personally, I find it creepy, but in the end, what's anyone going to do about it? Surely nobody here thinks this woman's kids should or are going to be taken away from her, unless she turns out to be neglecting or abusing them.
The world is full of crazies. She's neither the first, the last nor the biggest.
posted on February 10, 2009 07:39:00 PM new
Stickboydad's parents on the other hand, are the perfect example why prospective parents should have to pass basic intelligence tests before being allowed to breed.
posted on February 10, 2009 08:05:16 PM newStickboydad's parents on the other hand, are the perfect example why prospective parents should have to pass basic intelligence tests before being allowed to breed.
That should be applied to you liberals too. It is foolish and wrong to mourn the men who died. Rather we should thank God that such men lived.George S. Patton
I believe that we should focus our concern and resentment on the lack of medical supervision provided to this disturbed mother rather than the cost of feeding and taking care of fourteen helpless and in several cases disabled children.
I am delighted that we live in a country in which such unfortunate children and their mother have access to federal aid in the form of medicaid... food stamps and hopefully health care.
posted on February 11, 2009 07:38:36 AM new
I agree that unfortunate children should receive assistance and health care but this case is a little different. First off, the mother at first denied that she received any assistance. It seems to me that the primary reason for refusing to name the sperm donor was to set up eligibility for AFDC etc, especially if she continues to be in a relationship with this man. She is clearly working the system and I do not support that. She has over $50,000 in unpaid student loans and plans to support her family with MORE student loans as she plans to continue to work on her degree (Dateline NBC). Dateline showed picture of her with her first baby and she did not look at all like the woman she is today - she obviously has had plastic surgery on the angelina lips. Her $165,000 settlement for soft tissue injuries suffered at work is MIA - her mother said she never saw a dime of it to help support the growing brood. I am all for providing assistance to families in need but I am not in favor of spawning children in order to support oneself.
posted on February 11, 2009 08:22:02 AM new
I'm (obviously) not Neglus, but I'd like to answer "would you agree that the children need to be fed, clothed, cared for and have access to medical care?" too.
Yes, clearly the children need to be taken care of, as do all children.
However, as far as I'm concerned, the fertility doctors committed malpractice in this horror show. Let them and their insurance company bear some of the burden, but NOT to the point that it's a profit for the mother.
In my opinion, she's whack-a-doo. The doctors, presumably, are sane. Shame on them.
posted on February 11, 2009 08:37:05 AM new
Exactly, Cash.
Neglus also states, "She has over $50,000 in unpaid student loans and plans to support her family with MORE student loans as she plans to continue to work on her degree."
The number of students who struggle to support themselves with student loans would be confounded by the notion that those funds could possibly support a mother and fourteen children.
But then, they are responsible, mentally healthy individuals and not as Cash so aptly described, a whack-a-doo.
posted on February 11, 2009 08:59:02 AM new
Watching the Dateline interview, it is obvious that this woman is not capable of dealing with reality. She said she would be supporting her (14) children in about a year, after she gets her Master's. How will she support them until then? What kind of job will she get that will enable her to support 15 people? Who's going to watch 14 children while she is in school and when she is eventually working? She didn't address any of this.
She has one child with autism, one child with ADHD and one child with delayed speech development, all of whom receive disability.
She says that one of the reasons she wanted a big family is that her mother did not show her affection. That really bothered me. Her mother has given up her "golden years" taking care of 6 grandchildren and, if she sticks around, 8 more soon.
In this interview, they asked several of the older children how they feel about their new siblings. All of them were unhappy---"we
re going to be squished" one said. The other two said there would be lots of crying babies.
Ms. Suleman is emotionally disturbed and narcissistic to boot. They should make her fertility doctor support those kids he helped bring into the world.
posted on February 11, 2009 09:06:54 AM newShe has one child with autism, one child with ADHD and one child with delayed speech development, all of whom receive disability.
I wonder what kind of disability? Money? I have a very ADHD son and another who had speech problems for a few years. I have never heard of disability, except that my son worked with a speech pathologist, once a week in school.
posted on February 11, 2009 09:09:28 AM new "Ms. Suleman is emotionally disturbed and narcissistic to boot. They should make her fertility doctor support those kids he helped bring into the world."
I agree, Cash. As I stated in the thread that was removed without explanation from our "unmoderated" board, the focus of attention and ridicule should be on the irresponsible and in my opinion unethical medical decision to implant several children into a poor woman who already had six children. Without a doubt, that should be considered malpractice.
posted on February 11, 2009 09:25:09 AM new
I agree, Helen. The woman obviously has emotional problems which cloud her judgment. What is the doctor's excuse? The doctor should lose his/her license.
posted on February 11, 2009 09:30:27 AM new
Helen - I didn't mean to infer that these children should be denied care because of their mother. No child should be denied care... period.
I have to admit that I am not well versed in the benefits available to low income single parent families. Evidently AFDC has been replaced by Temporary Assistance for Needy Families Program (TANF) and there is a five year lifetime limit in receiving benefits - certainly not a long term solution for supporting the family.
I just read a little about the SSI program (social security benefits for disabled children) and if I am reading it right, if three of the older children qualify, the mother would receive about $2000/month. Low birth weight premature infants also qualify for SSI, so you can increase the monthly benefit (about $700 times 8) to about $7600, at least temporarily. Her combined income from SSI and TANF could approach three figures!
posted on February 11, 2009 10:16:51 AM new
neglus - IMHO, the disability payments and their disbursement should be handled by a third party. She has clearly demonstrated that she is irresponsible.
I'd like to know who is going to give her a student loan given the circumstances.
My daughter was on public assistance for a short term (1 year). It helped her get back on her feet after the father of my granddaughter walked out. She now has a very good paying job with the county that she's had for three years now. I don't begrudge anyone needy getting public assistance. The time limit placed on it was necessary. I have a friend who went on it the day her son was born and stayed on it until he turned 18. That's excessive and, yes, she knows exactly how I feel about that. That's why they changed things.
Her soft tissue injury should not prevent her from doing counseling, IMO. There's no reason for her not to work.
posted on February 11, 2009 10:31:40 AM new"Her combined income from SSI and TANF could approach three figures!"
And with fourteen children, some of whom are disabled, she will need every penny of that amount and then some.
Again, the focus should be on the clinic or irresponsible doctor who implanted several children into a woman with a history of mental illness along with six children at home, three of whom are disabled.
The state of California is investigating this medical decision.
posted on February 11, 2009 10:39:51 AM new
From http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/02/11/octuplet-mom-nadya-sulema_n_166030.html
Octuplet mom Nadya Suleman has launched a website asking for donations for her family of 14 children.
The site features pictures of the eight newborns, with their names and birth weights, drawings of a rainbow, bottle and pacifier, and has two options to donate.
She is accepting monetary donations payable by credit card (MasterCard, Visa, AmEx and Discover taken) and she also given an address to which one can send goods.
The website also contains a section to leave a comment and the following message:
"We thank you for the love and good wishes sent to us from around the world. The octuplets arrived on 1-26-09. They are all healthy and growing stronger by the day."
Suleman no doubt needs help. She has no income, is $50,000 in debt. She also receives $490 a month in food stamps and receives about $600 in disability payments a month for each of the three of her older six children with disabilities. One has ADHD, one had a speech impediment and one has autism, according to NBC's "Dateline" special.
posted on February 11, 2009 10:44:37 AM new
My daughter has a Masters in Social Work, and intends to get a PhD if she gets accepted.
She makes enough to get by comfortably as a single person, but a million miles from enough to support 15 (even absent the child care costs, which would probably gobble up the ENTIRE paycheck).
posted on February 11, 2009 11:41:11 AM new
SINCE WHEN DO CHILDREN WITH ADHD GET disability? I don't think so, unless California is way more liberal than the rest of the US
posted on February 11, 2009 12:09:30 PM new
Deichen - Google "Social Security Children diabilities". You have to be low income and child has to be documented as being disabled. SS is a federal program - not state.
-------------------------------------
posted on February 11, 2009 12:19:48 PM new
Deichen, the mother has declined to define the disability afflicting the other two children. You can be assurred that there is more involved than ADHD. Some have speculated that the disabilities may be related to Autism.
posted on February 11, 2009 12:51:15 PM new
*"Her soft tissue injury should not prevent her from doing counseling, IMO. There's no reason for her not to work.*"
Cheryl: WHAT?!!!! Does she DO counseling? She, the screwed-up mother? What kind of counseling, and to whom? ~Adele
_____________________
"Here in America we are descended in blood and in spirit from revolutionists and rebels - men and women who ***dared to dissent*** from accepted doctrine. As their heirs, ***may we never confuse honest dissent with disloyal subversion."*** --Eisenhower
posted on February 11, 2009 01:24:27 PM new
Deichen, In the interview with Ann Curry, Suleman stated that the child with the speech delay was experiencing characteristics of autism as well.
posted on February 11, 2009 01:38:52 PM new
Roadsmith, I believe she has a degree in psychology and is looking to get her Masters in that area.
As a further illustration that she is not dealing in reality: a conservative estimate of how much it would cost to care for 14 kids for 1 year is $1.5 million. This is for housing, transportation, child care, food, well baby care (not even considering illness or disabilities)and clothes. The woman is not capable of making good decisions.
posted on February 11, 2009 01:40:46 PM new
Adele - Wasn't she doing social work or something like that? Whatever it was it was desk work and not physical work.
Edited to add: She worked in a mental hospital! Kind of ironic.
Cheryl
http://www.youravon.com/cherylblevins
Now you can buy Avon from me from anywhere in the world.
[ edited by cblev65252 on Feb 11, 2009 01:53 PM ]
posted on February 11, 2009 05:37:20 PM new
Did anyone here see Dr. Phil today (2/11)? Kate, the mom from Jon & Kate plus Eight, was detailing the emotional and physical toll, plus the enormous expense.
_____________________
"Here in America we are descended in blood and in spirit from revolutionists and rebels - men and women who ***dared to dissent*** from accepted doctrine. As their heirs, ***may we never confuse honest dissent with disloyal subversion."*** --Eisenhower
