posted on October 12, 2000 03:22:22 PM new
All my life I've said I never want children. Well, lately I've been considering international adoption, but I don't see how couples, or especially single parents, do it in today's culture.
Both my husband and I work full time. We make a good living but we're still trying to pay off our credit cards and pay for the cars, mortgage etc. so we don't have a whole lot of disposable income. Supporting a child would be hard enough financially in our present situation, and I can't imagine how it would be possible if only one of us was working. I don't really like the idea of dropping a child off at daycare every day, plus that's expensive, too.
Parents, how do you handle it, financially and time-wise?
posted on October 12, 2000 03:42:19 PM new
I'm speaking for myself RainyBear but if I stop and think, this is it: I wasn't sure if I wanted children, some days I did and some days I didn't. Then I got pregnant and I still felt so unsure. Now I have a little rugrat who looks at me and his Dad and believes that the world revolves around us and there is nothing we can do wrong. There is always a hug and a goofy little smile. And I wouldn't trade that for the world and all the money in it. As far as time wise, you end up prioritizing and somehow it all works out in the end.
Financially, it is trying but it seems we always find a way. I quit my job after the baby was born and auction full time, most months I make as much as I did working at a "real" job. My husband doesn't have a great job, but he has a job he likes and that's more important.
I will never regret having my child or any other future ones I may have and sometimes it is hard to balance it all, but one look in that sweet face and nothing else matters.
This may not help, but I thought I'd share. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.
[ edited by spottydoggy on Oct 12, 2000 03:44 PM ]
posted on October 12, 2000 03:53:09 PM new
Rainy Bear, I find your post incredulous.
Parents have children and manage out of love. Sometimes kids are planned, sometimes not, That's life.
You don't need to be rich to be a parent. Yor wealth is your children. You make sacrifices, you compromise, you set aside your own personal indulgences. You live for your children and the love you can give them.
You state that you and your partner both have good incomes yet you have to pay this off and pay that off, etc.etc. It sounds to me that you both are self indulgent and value money more than children.
There are countless millions of people the world over who raise their children on very limited incomes and do so without complaint because they know the happiness that raising a family brings.
Sure, it would be nice to have enough money to give your chilren everything you would want for them but life's not like that. You don't measure love and commitment in dollars.
It seems to me like you've got your priorities wrong. Your post sounds to me like you'd sooner have money than a family and if that is correct I feel sorry for you.
Bob, Downunder but never down.
posted on October 12, 2000 04:03:35 PM new
It isn't always easy, but we make it work! With my first son, we were fortunate that my husband & I were able to continue working full time without putting him in day care. Perhaps you have an employer that would let you telecommute or rearrange your schedule, depending on what you do. Since we moved to Florida, it frankly has not been worth it for me to work full time, as jobs pay pretty crappy down here! My older son started kindergarten this year, and I stay home with my 20-month old. I worked part-time until about a month before he was born, and I have been selling on eBay for 7 months now. Okay, so we have not made much progress in paying down our credit cards, but everything gets paid on time. I rolled over my 401K when I left my job in NY (into a very lucrative Mutual Fund!), so we do have some $$ for later... It can be done--you just have to be a little creative sometimes! We manage to live very comfortably--just bought our first house almost a year ago. I just had to learn to be a little more conservative with money...when you're making good money & you don't have any real responsibilities, it's easy to get used to spending it liberally. Can't do that anymore!
I could never imagine myself as a parent when I was younger, but it is so worth it! (I say this as my little one clings to my chair screaming...)
[ edited by debbielennon on Oct 12, 2000 04:08 PM ]
posted on October 12, 2000 04:10:52 PM new
I'll do my best to keep my answer short.
I've been married to the same man for 23 years. I was 18, hubby was 20 when we married. We have 3 boys, ages 20, 18, 16, and a girl who is 13. (all at home right now, but subject to change soon)
I have been a stay at home mom the entire time. I've done some different "from home" jobs over the years, but nothing that really brought in any sizable amounts of money. We never used any money I made to pay normal bills, it always goes for extra stuff.
I can't imagine raising a family and working at the same time. Even with only one or two kids, I would never have been able to keep up. With the dentist, doctors, piano, chess club, jobs, hair cuts, church stuff etc. I have no idea how it would all work.
My husband and I have always felt strongly about this issue, and we just lived accordingly. He has a good job, but the early years were tough at times. We've always driven older cars, only buying our first new car three years ago for him. I drive an '85 Astro van, which I've had 13 years now. We live in a fairly modest home, large enough for a family of six, but small yard and useless tiny garage. We've saved and struggled to do the upgrades and repairs, and after 12 years still have things that need done.
I know many couples who thought they couldn't live on one income. After some serious number crunching, some of the wives found they were only making a couple of dollars per hour, once they deducted the cost of working. Cars, clothes, child care, eating out, the net income can be much less than you think if you really work the numbers.
I would never say that you can't raise a family and both work, but my experience has been that it is the kids who pay the price. (and mom who works doubletime to keep up) Of course, single mom's are in a whole different situation, one that I can only feel bad for. I have one good friend who is raising 3 kids on her own, but she has had the good fortune to be able to work from home.
Anyway, I wouldn't change a thing, even if I could. I don't regret not working, but I'm pretty sure I would regret if I hadn't been here all these years. And even though they're older, they need me here probably more than they did when they were small.
posted on October 12, 2000 05:02:02 PM new
RainyBear, may I ask you something? If you always said you would never have children, why are you considering adopting one now? Why did you never want children? And what changed your mind lately to want them? Just some things that maybe you should think on before going any further, money or not. Not only does the child that is adopted need to be loved, you need to make sure that you are able to give it freely without other worries. I hope you dont take offense at my asking. I made lots of mistakes with my child...but I never regretted having him, or struggling to support him, or loving him.
posted on October 12, 2000 06:00:23 PM new
Before I became a parent, I had a good job and was on track to keep moving up. I assumed that when I had my child, I would do what all career women do: put my child in day-care and continue working. I liked my job, I liked the money, and we NEEDED the money, didn't we?
The instant I saw my daughter's face, it all went out the window. NO WAY would I give that dear sweet baby to ANYONE! The thought of all my "lost income" was scary but I had no choice. I was not leaving my baby.
Well, 14 years later and I'm still at home with my girl and my 9 year old son. Couldn't be happier. I've survived, never missed a meal! Never been late on the house payment or other bills and even put both kids in braces.
We don't have as big a house as I would like, we drive older cars, don't get to vacation anywhere exotic, and don't have the savings account I would like.
But I have something money can't buy: the luxury of time. Time spent with my kids who, as only a parent knows, grow up in the blink of an eye.
It's not as hard as you think. When I worked, I took home less than I thought. After taxes, lunches, nice clothes and nylons, gas, parking, car upkeep, etc., I wasn't really that much ahead.
Sure its scary to think about, but lots of people manage to do it and are happy. It really comes down to what you want out of life.
posted on October 12, 2000 06:33:48 PM new
How do we do it?
You are gifted with something at the birth of your child, something unexplainable, you are gifted with a selflessness that you could not imagine before your child arrived.
posted on October 12, 2000 06:39:06 PM newIt sounds to me that you both are self indulgent and value money more than children
Next time I get called judgmental, I think I'll whip out this post.
There's nothing "self indulgent", nor any indication of "valuing money more than children" in wondering how one's life would change - and being concerned as to whether one would be happy with those changes.
Sounds to moi like RainyBear is simply asking the sort of questions EVERYBODY should ask before considering having children.
I had one child (for me = one too many) way too young. Fortunately my ex was only too happy to assume virtually all parental responsibilities; I am seriously NOT parent material. Fortunately as well, my son turned out beautifully. I am glad he was born and think he's an asset to society, am honored to be related to him, and know that we are both damned lucky that things turned out as well as they did.
For someone who is extremely solitary or has a life's work (as opposed to a "career," which has waaay too many negative connotations, particularly when applied to women), a child is a real psychic invasion no matter how much you love him. The nine months with somebody actually living inside you are nothing compared to the decade-and-more to follow where you are - or must be - attuned to his needs before anything else. I found it emotionally exhausting beyond description - not unlike being awakened every 10 minutes after having no sleep for a week. Parenting is definitely NOT for everybody, and it is not merely the "selfish" and "money loving" ones among us who realize this.
[ edited by HartCottageQuilts on Oct 12, 2000 06:39 PM ]
posted on October 12, 2000 06:39:17 PM new
You become aquainted with being poor and quick. Since getting married and having seven kids I have learned alot of things
Several hundred different things to do with tuna. 1001 ways to make spagetti to make people think you actually aren't eating spagetti again. The best things you find at the thrift shop go straight to ebay the rest you use to furnish your home, clothe the family and holidays and birthdays. You will never ever be able to use the bathroom again in peace so just get used to it. Living in a house where 6 people all have the flu at once and are throwing up is NOT fun. Mom's needs generally come last. If there are clothes to be bought or shoes needed it won't be you that gets them. You live in a house that's way to small with one bathroom, no garage and you learn automachanics real quick to keep your 1978 baby poop colored van running. You start answering whenever you hear the word MOM even if it isn't your kids just out of habit. You find yourself doing homework every night even though you haven't been in school for years. You know tons of facts about sharks because your 7 year old has decided they are the most facinating creature on earth. When you talk literature with others the first thing to pop in your head is Dr. Suess and the fine contribution he has made. You know how to play pokemon well enough to beat your kids. You give up cleaning the fingerprints off of things till they turn 18 because frankly you have more important things to do with your time. You give your kids love and attention because those million toys or all those lessons aren't near as important as knowing your loved. But the best thing is You get the unfettered total without reservation love of little people who think your great no matter what you wear, how your house looks or what social skills you happen to posses.
E-mail me if you want tons of money savings ideas. I've learned a million of them over the years.
Oddish~ The Odd One
posted on October 12, 2000 06:52:37 PM new
eBay has allowed me the luxury of not having to drop my kids off at daycare.
And I wholeheartedly agree with those above who say that having children is more managing the heart than managing finances but there is plenty of both to be sure. The ultimate reward, though, is unconditional love. Purely unconditional. There is nothing like that in the world.
I feel almost sad for my ex sometimes because he has seen our children only twice in a little over a year and a half...and I don't understand how, when life goes by so quickly, you can allow yourself to be robbed of the precious moments that build an unbreakable bond when children are young.
I have 2 boys who both came home today with certificates for making the Honor Roll...and I cried. It's the tears of joy that make raising children it's own reward, in spite of the rough times, in spite of the roadblocks and occasional sulking, and in spite of the fact that someday you will shed another tear as they walk out the door into their own adult lives. And if you leave a gentle enough mark in their hearts, they will always walk back in the door.
posted on October 12, 2000 07:02:54 PM new
Oddish...will you be my mommy? Dang girl...you make it sound hard, but FUN too!
On the other side of the spectrum, it isnt fun sometimes. One does the best one can. And there are no "how to's" with children. I did something wrong, and now Im paying for it. Most of the things you hear are good things. But what about the percentage of kids that no matter how you try, no matter how much you loved, no matter what sacrifices you did, it still wasnt enough. So youre punished by silence, by being ignored, by being forgotten. The parents who tearfully look in the TV cameras and say "I did the best I could. He/she was a good kid and raised in a loving home. I dont know what happened". What can one say to those parents? I dont know what else to say. Gotta live with the mistakes and wish things were different. Then again, you might be blessed by doing the best and it turned out to BE the best, reflected on your children you raised, whether they are yours, or someone elses you raised.
posted on October 12, 2000 07:14:16 PM new
Oh goody! Prepare my room!!! Um..I want a palm tree on one wall...and...I want bunk beds (I get the top one)...and the kids have to stay in my room so we can drape sheets all over the furniture and play cat and mouse (I get to be the cat)...and....stock up on sweets cause we gotta have them at all hours. When can I come?
posted on October 12, 2000 07:30:22 PM new
Not only do I have my kids to deal with, but now that I'm in school in a votech, I have everyone elses kids trying to pull the stuff on me that can't pull on Mom. It was awful at first a bad one or two, but I've won them over and they try to see how much they can make me laugh or how pissed I will get. They ask me for help with things they don't get and I ask for help with things I don't get.
So it's not just kids that are born to you that you can help. Adoption is wonderful.
Just have fun.....if you arent having fun you're likely being a military ( I meant militant, but not sure of spelling) type parent.
Sorry (blushing)
[ edited by kitsch1 on Oct 12, 2000 07:58 PM ]
posted on October 12, 2000 07:39:00 PM new
Well, Im supposed to go play pool with kel at the local pub where she is, so maybe I can swing by and stay at your place. And lemme warn ya..I WILL win that top bunk. Think Im kiddin', dontcha? Wait til you see a gal with blue hair banging on yer door, lol.
Kel, we're gonna kick some butt, ya know. Mama and Daddy owned a bar for 40 years, and I had the keys to the pool table that was back in the poker room.
posted on October 12, 2000 07:55:46 PM new
Well shoot Maui, You've got me beat then. I'm a sporadically excellent pool player...meaning I lose more than I win, but I have brief periods of excellence.
Really, it all depends on the music, play some lame country tunes and I'm bout gauranteed to lose.
posted on October 12, 2000 08:01:39 PM new
Oh maaaan! (proper whine there)...do we hafta go to Honky Tonks to play pool? If I have to listen to country music, I will lose too. Hows about some nice rock n roll? Or, even some rap? Or, I can deal with classical! No likey country.
posted on October 12, 2000 08:04:09 PM new
Better yet..lets forget the pool and grab Oddish and her kids and you and your girls and we all go find a pond or river or lake and go fishin'? I love to fish! Take a picnic lunch and hang out and teach the kids how icky it is to put a worm on a hook (Cant take Newt...he would want to eat the worms, lol).
posted on October 12, 2000 08:08:15 PM new
There are no Rock n Roll clubs here in Sticksville, BUT, there are juke boxes, and when playin pool, I recommend using them ........ they do have some good rock on the boxes.
posted on October 12, 2000 08:30:36 PM new
Actually, bitsnbobs, if RainyBear is contemplating adoption, she *needs* to be concerned about her finances, debt load, size & quality of housing, etc. They run you through the wringer if you are a prospective adoptive parent! I've often thought that if all birth parents had to meet the stringent codes & rules that adoptive parents do, there'd be way fewer unwanted kids popping into the world.
posted on October 12, 2000 08:45:19 PM new"I've often thought that if all birth parents had to meet the stringent codes & rules that adoptive parents do, there'd be way fewer unwanted kids popping into the world."
Bunnicula --
Surely you aren't saying that a woman's reproductive rights should hinge on her social or financial status? I hope I'm reading you wrong.
posted on October 12, 2000 08:52:02 PM new
Rainy Bear,
I owe you an apology.
I have re-read my post and not only have I used a poor choice of words but have replied without due thought.
After re-reading your post I see I have perhaps jumped to conclusions that were ill founded.
Sincerely sorry.
Bob.
Bob, Downunder but never down.
posted on October 12, 2000 10:10:03 PM new
Rainybear I wish more people would actually think it over before they brought children into this world.
Good luck in whatever you choose to do.
Bunnicula: I agree with you. It is a shame the way some people have children without the slightest thought of how and if they really care for them.
I used to work at our church day care. There were some children who were dropped off the minute we opened at 6:30 and not picked up until 6:30 at night when we closed. I could understand if they did it once or even twice a week to do shopping or errands..but not every day!! I know these people were not working all those hours (they had to check in with us and tell us where they were for emergency purposes)This happened in single and two parent households so I am not picking on any one here, we had a good mix of all income levels too.
What do you say to a three year old when he asks you why he is always the last one too leave? Not the truth that's for sure. It used to break my heart.
Do to a car accident that happened when I was five months pregnant I don't have any children. I could have adopted but like Rainybear I thought about it and weighed the pros and cons. I might have made a good mom but I will never know. I had too many doubts to risk it.
BitsandBobs: very classy apology..character comes from doing the hard things, I'm really impressed
posted on October 12, 2000 10:10:42 PM newBob, that's OK. I can understand why you'd think that. But I'm not worried so much about having luxuries, but rather making ends meet and fulfulling my obligations to take care of my family and to build a stable future for us. And it seems to be beginning to become just that, a family. I have a husband and three cats now (yeah, I know, Oddish, that's an easy bunch compared to yours! ). My in-laws are here visiting, and I'm really enjoying spending time with everyone. I've been married for three years now and I've undergone a tremendous amount of changes during that time.
I never thought I wanted a family of my own, but I'll be darned if that wish isn't just sneaking right up on me! Maui, you asked why I'm now thinking of adoption even though I've always thought I never wanted children. Well, I think that as I get older and experience more of life, family is becoming much more important to me. I've been thinking for a while that I could provide a good home for a baby who needs one. I'd like to adopt from China. I do not want to produce a baby of my own, but adoption is very appealing. I was adopted myself.
My husband and I are solidly middle-class. I drive a Geo and he drives a pickup truck. We bought our first home earlier this year, which is a large part of the reason our finances are tight right now. I've been chipping away at some substantial credit card debt we both brought to the marriage and I've clobbered about 75% of it. One of my biggest goals right now is to be debt free. Only then can I think about saving for something like an adoption.
I'm actually quite good at being thrifty -- it's my husband that would have a harder time cutting back, though he doesn't spend excessively either. If one of us were to stay at home full time it would be him, though in a way I feel like I'd miss out on a lot.
I've always thought people are nuts for wanting to have children, but now I understand. I love reading about everyone's experiences here, so thank you for sharing! It will be a while before my husband and I make any decision like that, but I like to think about things in advance.
posted on October 12, 2000 10:34:38 PM newRainybear My oldest is now 18 years old. When the hubby and I first started thinking about having children we learned about a program here in the DFW area of Texas that might be available where you are also.
There are several children's homes in our area that provide safe haven for children whose parent's are going through a rough time - some emotionally, some financially, and other reasons. Some of the children are in between adoptions. These homes are looking for families who are willing to "adopt" a child for weekends and/or holidays.
We had two "adopted" children over a period of several years before having our own. This not only gave us a chance to experience parenting, but the beauty of it was that these children weren't left out when the other children in the home were picked up by relatives, etc. for weekend visits.
It doesn't give you the ongoing, "real" experience of being a parent - but, it can be a lot of fun for you and hubby and does give you an idea of the demands of parenting. Most importantly, it gives a child who might be feeling abandoned and hopeless that much needed feeling of being loved and of belonging.
posted on October 12, 2000 10:48:49 PM new
bunnicula does have a valid point in that an adoption agency will peer into your life and up your butt with a microscope...and not just about finances. They will want to know that you are sure about committing to caring for another human being for 18 years and beyond, so you are wise to be sure that you're sure. However, that tingling in your heart that brought you thus far is a huge step in the process. Follow your heart but back it up with good common sense.
And I agree that too many ppl have children without a thought at all. A shame really. It is a life commitment and there are too many young mothers who don't consider the years beyond the cute li'l googoogaga stage.
But again, it is the most wonderful turn in life and I look forward to sharing all of the rest of my years with my children.
mybiddness, what a wonderful program...I've often pondered taking in a foster child when my children get older...we'll see how much patience I have left when I get to that bridge
As far as time wise, you end up prioritizing and somehow it all works out in the end.
. Hows about some nice rock n roll? Or, even some rap? Or, I can deal with classical! No likey country
). My in-laws are here visiting, and I'm really enjoying spending time with everyone. I've been married for three years now and I've undergone a tremendous amount of changes during that time.