posted on October 21, 2000 12:30:45 AM new
Everywhere you look in the Middle East, from Iran, to Irak, to Afghanistan, to Saudi Arabia, to Syria, to the Gulf Emirates, they hate us.
It doesn't matter how much military equipment and intelligence we gave Iran a few years back or how many solid gold faucets we presented to the Saudis.
Why are we there? OIL.
How many more years do we think we will be able to keep oil coming from overthere and at what total cost?
Talk about our Presidents not having any vision at all.
We need to set it as a goal for this Nation, to replace OIL with other sources of energy, in every area possible, within the next 10 to 15 years.
We need to embark on this the way we decided to go to the Moon.
Defending our National Interests does not consist in sailing in the Persian Gulf.
It consists in not needing anyone at all from around there.
Let's do what no one has yet done. Then, we will sell it or license it to them. Let's develop ALL possible alternative sources of energy and redesign whatever equipment we need to, to use the new energies.
Then, we can bring the ships home and let Emirs fight Emirate wars. A substantial savings.
posted on October 21, 2000 06:40:50 AM new
Marwin!!!! I was just wondering where you had gone. Now I have to mull over your topics for a while, and worship the goddess caffeine...
posted on October 21, 2000 07:20:27 AM new
Where would we be without plastic?
Diary cows produce enough methane as to fuel this country perpetually, and assessing that gas as a natural resource would be also be a great ecological achievement as cow farts has been shown to be the largest detrimental eroder of the protective ozone layer produced on this planet.
But without imported oil there would be no polyester suits or cracked dashboards. The packaging industry would be decimated, and fast foods would be a thing of the past. No more frozen food section in your local supermarket; no more TV dinners.
But it's OK. We'll have a war to protect our rayon, and devise an effective bovine Gas-X.
posted on October 21, 2000 10:55:44 AM new
Of course. We all know that we extract more than fuel from oil.
What is maybe less well known, is that COAL and WOOD provide the very same raw ingredients.
We can make plastics all day long and any kind of synthetics from these 2 sources alone.
We don't lack alternatives to oil.
We lack the willingness to make ourselves independent.
Compare our military R&D budget in the past 30 years to our Alternative Energy Sources R&D budgets.
Imagine having to drive to your Grocery Store in a Tank, and being surrounded and protected by 12 Swat Team types, as you push your cart down the aisles.
Well, this is about the way we shop for oil.
It is always so much easier to procrastinate and to keep doing things the way we have done them for decades.
We have already reached the stage where we get more than oil from the Middle East.
We are getting our embassies bombed (Africa), our ships (Yemen), our military buildings (Remember Saudi Arabia and Lebanon?) our citizens abducted (Remember Iran and many other hostages?), acts of terrorism on our soil (World Trade Center) and we have had to fight at least one war (Desert Storm).
Do you think it will get better?
It will not.
One of these days there will be a major blast right here at home. Could be chemical, could be biological, may even be nuclear.
Eliminating our need for Middle East oil would go a long way towards increasing our security, reducing our exposure.
posted on October 21, 2000 11:36:17 AM newCOAL and WOOD provide the very same raw ingredients
Even assuming this rather sweeping statement is at all true - I can just imagine the fallout: more grousing about how we're raping our environment with the strip-mining, clear-cutting and industrial pollution (ever lived downwind or downstream from a paper mill?) that would inevitably follow taxing these resources as a replacement for petroleum...
I think you might be taken a teeeeeny bit more seriously if, as of today, you foreswore all petrochemical-related items. Of course if you do so, we won't hear from you again as you'll have to start by tossing your PC out the window. What's that you say? You can't? You're a slave to the system? Sounds like procrastination to moi.
Every time this issue comes up I remember the anti-US demonstrations in London at the start of the Gulf War. Hundreds of protesters, all wearing little tabards with a "No Oil" logo printed on them. All those little tabards were made out of plastic. I politely pointed out the irony of this to a couple protesters, but they didn't seem to find it very funny.
posted on October 21, 2000 12:25:29 PM new
The proposition to become largely independent from oil is not rooted in some anti-plastic attitude.
Rather, it derives from the consideration that we get what is a vital supply at this time, from one of the most anti-American regions in the world.
In the process of insuring that we keep the supply coming, we find ourselves militarily and politically involved with people and with countries which do not like us, do not want to deal with us, resent our presence, despise our ways, envy our prosperity and achievements, and ultimately wish us all the harm possible.
Is it unreasonable to ask what our long term strategy and solution are?
Does anyone believe that over the next 50 years perhaps, Arab Nations will come to have a friendly attitude towards us, and that we will buy and import oil as simply as we do business with Canada or the UK?
The obvious answer is no.
We all can tell that the Middle East situation will remain explosive, that we will almost certainly be involved in some local wars sooner or later, that bombs will keep going off, and that our safety at home will keep decreasing.
If we agree on this analysis, then let's face the question, what are the alternatives?
The alternative is simply not to need Middle East oil, which ultimately means moving away from our general oil dependency.
This takes us to the necessity of developping viable alternatives, as a national priority, funded at the Federal level, rewarded at the private level, and pursued with speed and determination as a matter of National Security.
We can do it. We can do it well. We can do it cleanly. We can do it protecting our environment. We can do it profitably by selling our new energy technologies and alternatives to the rest of the world.
posted on October 21, 2000 06:27:56 PM new
Hypothetically speaking of course; If there were a catastrophic accident at one of those chemical/biological warfare sites that Saddam has scattered throughout his realm and the affected area were to encompass the whole of the oil producing region in the Middle East, it could be serendipitous indeed for perceived American interests.
I think the likely result of such an occurrence, however, would be a serious conflict with England, Japan, China and France over control of the area.
A homegrown technological advance that liberated this country from foreign oil dependence could likewise create conflict with our traditional allies.
Wishes can have unforeseen consequences and should be voiced with care. Geopolitical balances are tenuous at best. In some respects we need to share the OPEC problems with the other industrial nations in order to have a common binding interest.
All that being said, I would like to see an alternative fuel initiative receive some real political support in this country. I hope that, should we achieve success, we are willing to share.
posted on October 21, 2000 09:38:06 PM newWe are getting our embassies bombed (Africa), our ships (Yemen), our military buildings (Remember Saudi Arabia and Lebanon?) our citizens abducted (Remember Iran and many other hostages?), acts of terrorism on our soil (World Trade Center) and we have had to fight at least one war (Desert Storm).
Ummmm, marwin, I do believe that the reason our fighting men and our embassies are being bombed are not because of oil but rather because of our continued support and frendship with Israel. Oil is just a secondary reason why we have a presence in that part of the globe.
I say we should continue to buy their oil and when their supply starts to run out then we can start producing and exploring for oil right here in the USA and then we can sell it right back to them at our own over-inflated prices and really clean up.
posted on October 21, 2000 09:52:24 PM new
Why are we so supposedly dependent on Middle East oil? It's about money, for one. It's a big business. Here's an interesing site for reference: http://www.opec.org/faqs.htm#b1
The stats are old but if accurate, the US was the third largest oil producing nation in the world in 1996. I have buddies who deal with oil production issues for a living so maybe I'll ask them about current US production. In some places oil costs more to produce than others. Location, location, location. So it's cheaper to import.
If you're serious, conserve energy for a start. Frequently people do not want to change their habits and want technology to save them. The answer is a combination of both. But there are always trade offs.
Right now there are EV's (electric vehicles) and hybrids which can run on gas or electricity so you have the benefits of both a long range distance car and an EV in one vehicle. Where I live you can lease an EV. Battery technology could use improvement, though. Not sure if the hybrids are available for sale yet. Fuel cell research is also progressing. Of course electricity has to be produced and there are various ways of doing that: coal & natural gas are nonrenewable resources, hydro, geothermal, wind and solar are renewable. And in some places the costs of electricity are rising due to a variety of factors. (Good old "market forces" just as with oil.)
Other fuels: methanol, ethanol.
Automakers have produced some really fuel efficient and low emission (low on creating air pollution) cars, but right now the trend is to buying gas guzzling SUV's so the marketplace is making a choice.
A good book on the subject of oil is Daniel Yergin's "The Prize: The Epic Quest for Oil, Money and Power." There was a PBS series some years ago based on the book.
I haven't bought any gasoline in at least a couple of months. I ride natural gas powered buses to work. Frequently walk to the store too. But then I choose not to live in the suburbs so I don't have a long commute and don't need the car to go to work. Circumstances differ for others. But some folks have choices regarding their energy and fossil fuel consumption. That's a start that doesn't rely on the government.
[ edited by siggy on Oct 21, 2000 10:04 PM ]
