Zazzie
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posted on February 4, 2001 11:48:07 AM new
This information threw me for a loop. Been reading about the 'HAIDA' Indians--who are a Pacific Coastal First Nation.
90 NINETY!!! percent of the Haida nation succumbed to diseases such as measles, small pox etc and died. They were not the only tribe that devasted in this manner.
This happened to them just a little over 100 years ago.
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bobbysoxer
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posted on February 4, 2001 12:05:37 PM new
Yes the European settlers brought diseases to what would be called USA that killed many Native Americans.
Along with killing the Native Americans with other means such as rifles and so on, it was a genocide.
I recently saw the number of the Native Americans that were killed due to the Europeans settling this country and I believe it was 10 million. Anyone?
not bobbysoxer on eBay
[email protected]
[ edited by bobbysoxer on Feb 4, 2001 12:07 PM ]
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Zazzie
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posted on February 4, 2001 12:12:46 PM new
I knew that there had been a lot of deaths from Europeon diseases---but never imagined the percent was so high
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Linda_K
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posted on February 4, 2001 12:41:31 PM new
Zazzie - Not sure if you're trying to stay focused only on the American Indians or not but....
Some diseases that were almost totally eradicated here in the US, have returned (fairly recently) to cause death or debilitation to many. They have returned via immigrants who carried them....much like the Indians you refer to.
Now we have this 'mad cow' disease to be concerned about in our meat supply.
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bobbysoxer
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posted on February 4, 2001 01:27:56 PM new
yes zazzie the voices of the Native Americans need -must- be heard.
There were tribes that were completely destroyed due to killing and to diseases, I don't know the number nor any idea how many. Anyone? There was a movie a few years back a last surviving tribal member who eventually died. His tribe died when he died. And the way the European descendents treated him was inhumane. I can't remember the name, does anyone?
The way the Native American children were treated in order to teach them English and the "American" way of life was inexcusable.
In recent years they have been attempting to reclaim their heritage that was stolen by the European descendents. Thou shall not steal.
BTW my family history can be traced back before the Revolutionary War to the very European founding settlers, not the Mayflower though, but close.
not bobbysoxer on eBay
[email protected]
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bobbysoxer
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posted on February 4, 2001 01:35:42 PM new
zazzie
Please educate me. Is Haida from India or America? Did I misunderstand your post? Sorry if I did.
not bobbysoxer on eBay
[email protected]
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kcizmar
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posted on February 4, 2001 01:41:40 PM new
i took a class last fall on the southwest indians. (c.r.i.t.) we were told that the us. goverment sent blankets to the reservaction that were infested with sickness and gave it to the indian kids to make them sick. no lie! a good indian is a dead indian .was there way of thinking! i was sick when i heard this..and my family came over on the mayflower!( roger williams)
karen
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femme
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posted on February 4, 2001 01:57:17 PM new
If you ever come across a copy of Dee Brown's "Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee" (1970) at a used book store, I highly recommend it. It's "An Indian History of the American West."
Although it's been a very long time since I read it, I remember being very disturbed by it and declaring at the time to my husband that it was my favorite adulthood book ("Lorna Doone" was my favorite childhood book).
I made the mistake of loaning it out in the late '70s and when I requested it back, the individual said they didn't have it. 
It wasn't until the mid 90s that I found another copy,  but have not re-read it yet.
bobbysoxer...I saw the movie you are talking about, but do not recall the title.
I seem to remember Jon Voight starred in it, though. I would like to see it again.
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rosiebud
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posted on February 4, 2001 02:05:02 PM new
The Last of His Tribe is the name of the movie and it was the Yahi tribe.
[ edited by rosiebud on Feb 4, 2001 02:06 PM ]
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kcizmar
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posted on February 4, 2001 02:50:18 PM new
femme
thanks ...there are 15 on ebay right now and i just bid on one! i cant wait to read it.
i love ebay!.... back to posting
karen in arizona
[ edited by kcizmar on Feb 4, 2001 02:51 PM ]
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looney2ns
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posted on February 4, 2001 02:55:31 PM new
another good book to read is Ride the Wind. I cant remember who wrote it but it is a true story of a white girl that was raised by indians.
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bobbysoxer
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posted on February 4, 2001 02:57:44 PM new
Thank you rosiebud and femme.
"Bury My Heart At Wounded Knee" was and IS excellent!
Now that I am not so ignorant about the Native American history I can't stand to watch "old" movies that portray the Native Americans as anything but with "respect."
About a year or so ago I was watching a Mae West and WC Fields movie where Native Americans were portrayed not very nicely. I was so disappointed because it was the first time I watched this movie and was a treat but I turned it off. And returned it. It just made me sick.
This sentiment includes other non-white characters such as the African-Americans, Chinese (Breakfast at Tiffanys) and others too.
Some consider the slaughter of the Native Americans as "The American Halocaust" which I agree.
not bobbysoxer on eBay
[email protected]
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rosiebud
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posted on February 4, 2001 03:30:16 PM new
looney2ns ~ Lucia St. Clair Robson wrote Ride the Wind
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bobbysoxer
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posted on February 4, 2001 03:33:11 PM new
About a year or so ago, in a local GW I bought a paperback book copyrighted in the late 60s that was one of a series of the American Geneology books. This particular book was about a handful of different tribes' history.
I later put it up for auction which it sold. The buyer was grateful in receiving it because it was the only book *so far* that had any information about her heritage.
I didn't take the time to actually study it which now I regret. In my opinion, it would have honored the people. Ah, the lessons we learn....
Hopefully, I will come across another copy or similiar book and will read it.
not bobbysoxer on eBay
[email protected]
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DWest
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posted on February 4, 2001 03:49:23 PM new
I suggest that you read the book "Dammed Indians" by Michael Lawson. It is about the devastating effects of the Pick-Sloan Dam Projects. The dams were build on the Missouri River and forced the tribal members to relocate from their homes because the lands were inundated with water. It involves Fort Berthold, Cheyenne River, Santee, Yankton, Lower Brule, and other Sioux Reservations. Although the families were uprooted and the tribal economy was put into shambles during the 1940s and 1950s, the United States Government did not start to fully compensate these people until the mid-1990s. During the last Congress there were bills under consideration for Yankton and Santee, but it was never acted upon.
Lawson's book was regarded as an authoritative source by GAO and Congress and used as a basis for calculating the losses suffered by the Sioux.
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femme
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posted on February 4, 2001 04:59:21 PM new
Thank you, rosiebud, for the title of that movie.
kcizmar...So glad you found a copy of that book!! I've since found another copy in a used book store, but the price was outrageous.
I am so far behind on my reading, but can't seem to pass up a good book. I've vowed to make a dent in the pile this year. Hope to re-read "Bury..." once we are back into patio season.
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Zazzie
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posted on February 4, 2001 05:27:12 PM new
Haida is a West Coast (Pacific) First Nation (Indian Tribe) located in the Queen Charlotte Islands in Canada and on Prince of Wales Island in Alaska
http://www.civilization.ca/membrs/fph/haida/hapindxe.html
http://susan.chin.gc.ca/Exhibitions/Inuit_Haida/english.html
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DWest
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posted on February 4, 2001 10:37:47 PM new
Here is the link for the Central Council of Tlingit & Haida
http://www.tlingit-haida.org/
This link gives a brief history
http://www.tlingit-haida.org/organization/history/histmain.html
(edited to try and correct the link)
(edited again to correct the link)
[ edited by DWest on Feb 4, 2001 11:13 PM ]
[ edited by DWest on Feb 4, 2001 11:22 PM ]
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gravid
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posted on February 5, 2001 04:57:11 PM new
My father went to school with many Seminole Indians. He said the government formally declared war on that tribe but never won and never came to a formal peace. Technically we are still at war with them. They got tired of sending blue coats into the swamps and none would come back. A fellow who has been to some of their casinos told me they are still winning.
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kitsch1
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posted on February 5, 2001 05:20:19 PM new
This topic has always been hard for me. I did not learn the true history in school. I learned it on my own when I was a teen. I did not learn much of slavery or the atrocious things that happened to African American or Native Americans. I've always felt a shame at our race for what happened. The thing is tho, I am here and my kids are here and so I can't wish it all away. My girls are a quarter Cherokee. A quarter Korean and a half of whatever white European mix I'm made of.
We can't go back ever, if we could we would attack Hitler sooner, we would have done so many things differently..
America has so much to be ashamed of just like any country out there. Many countries (most countries) were built on blood.
People are good on the whole in my opinion. But blind. We don't see very far past our back yards and elect and trust leaders who supposedly see farther that us with more clarity. But truly most don't they just project a farther eye and a better grasp and they too are really looking in their back yard.
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Zazzie
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posted on February 5, 2001 05:57:53 PM new
I didn't really post this information to debate the guilt of the 'white man'---that is another story.
It is the enormity of the image in my mind.
9 out of 10 people died from disease. These percentages are more than what the Black Plague did in Europeon & Asian population/ which was 35 percent .----more than what the Holocast did to the Jewish population--I'm sorry I don't have that percentage available. It is mind numbing to think about it. I just imagined my daughter's school of 400 children and then imagined only 40 of them left alive.
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kitsch1
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posted on February 5, 2001 06:05:50 PM new
Pardon me for going off track.
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Zazzie
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posted on February 5, 2001 06:12:02 PM new
not a problem KEL---no reason to apologize--I was just clarifying how those numbers made me think---you can post whatever this info makes you think of--and the effect on you and yours
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kitsch1
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posted on February 5, 2001 06:50:41 PM new
The whole thing took me on my own tangent is all.
Good topic
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DWest
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posted on February 5, 2001 08:02:54 PM new
Zazzie,
I guess the reason for the post escapes me. Are you trying to illustrate that American Indians are mostly extinct?
I am an enrolled tribal member of one of the Northwest tribes. Sure, 150 years ago many of my ancestors died from smallpox and other diseases, but as a people we have survived. We do not want to compare atrocities with other unfortunate ethnic groups and claim that our losses and greater.
Interest in Native American history and culture is appreciated. We want to maintain our identity, but we also want to be viewed as part of modern America. Sometimes we feel that too many people believe that American Indians only belong in history.
I'm sorry if I've offended anyone, but as I said earlier, I don't understand the point of the post. Since Kitsch1 was chastised for being off topic, the topic probably should have been "Extinct Species", instead of "Genocide". The word genocide suggests that moral and political issues are involved.
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krs
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posted on February 5, 2001 08:14:28 PM new
"Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee"
is in print and availabe at Amazon here:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0805017305/qid=981432701/sr=2-1/ref=sc_b_1/105-6199790-3598344
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Zazzie
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posted on February 5, 2001 08:29:15 PM new
I am not trying to illustrate that someone's history is worse than anothers--or that the First Nations are extinct. The Haida may have gone to the brink--but are a vibrant strong proud Nation now.
Kel and I are old buds--so don't worry about our conversation--we can work it out--which we did.
Were there moral or polictical issues involved 150 years ago??---most likely. But you are correct--I certainly picked the wrong word.
I was just so astounded by the numbers---so I am sorry for any offence taken--as none was intentional.
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DWest
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posted on February 5, 2001 09:23:45 PM new
No offense taken. I guess the thread is merely about numbers.
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Zazzie
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posted on February 5, 2001 09:33:36 PM new
--was going to make a comment on the word 'merely'--but I'm doomed to be misunderstood in my intentions/non-intentions.
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gravid
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posted on February 6, 2001 06:28:25 AM new
Yes the population of the Americas was pretty much doomed even without any evil intent because of the isolation from common disease.
It is what happened to the remaining ones that the political and economic agenda came in.
Especially in South and Central America there was a systematic destruction of the culture because it was not christian. Anything which was decorated was suspect as being connected with pagan religion and was destroyed.
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