posted on February 11, 2001 08:00:19 PM new
Matthews: First, for more on the Bush presidency and the democratic opposition we're joined by James Carville. Why were you laughing through that introduction?
Carville: Well, I'm laughing...Just watching all the things that go by.
Matthews: What particularly tickled your funny bone?
Carville: What tickles me is that the easiest thing in Washington to do is have a meeting. Nothing snows the Washington Press like walking out and saying "Gee we had a nice collegial meeting and everybody is getting along." And, ah, I'm just kind of amused at how everybody thinks . . . the Washington Post and New York Times thinks that having a meeting is making policy. That's ridiculous. And I think there's gonna be plenty of time for fighting. But what I also found terribly amusing was that--it used to always tickle me the way George Bush used to attack the War Room. He said we don't...thousands of times.
Matthews: George Senior.
Carville: No, George W. No. During the campaign. George W. Bush, the now President, said we don't need any more War Rooms. He was gonna put an end to all the War Rooms. And here reported in the Washington Times, today--which is, by the way, for you viewers out there, and Chris will attest to this, is a Bush house organ, this a very conservative newspaper.
Matthews: Right.
Carville: "White House War Room helpin' GOP sell tax plan." Then we got lectures about how Bush really wanted to work with the Democrats. That he was gonna listen to everybody. Headline, Bush house organ: "Bush warns Hill not to change tax cut proposal." So here we have a President that said he's gonna pay attention to...have meetings with Democrats and says "we're gonna pay attention to what you say," then he says "don't you dare touch what I'm putting out there." Here's somebody that attacks the culture of War Rooms, and not even in office 3 weeks, and sets up his own War Room. I mean there's something...and so he goes out and has a meeting and the Washington Post goes gaga. I mean is anybody gonna do some reporting as to how many times that this President when he was running for office..I mean I loved it because when we had the War Room in '92 and I like when people.
Matthews: Are you animated by the possibility, by the negative possibility, that the democrats on the hill may actually like Bush?
Carville: No. I have no problem. If they like him. Fine
Matthews: Does that bother you? Why are they saying nice things about him?
Carville: Why wouldn't they say nice things about things about him?
Matthews: Cause he's...as you see it. He's your enemy
Carville: He's not...In two weeks...
Matthews: You never say nice things about your enemy.
Carville: I'm...I'm not a Senator, I'm a partisan. Ok? And these guys, have got . . ya know . . and why would they not say...As long as he's not doing anything. As long as he goes to their conferences and shakes hands with them, pats them on the back. Sure, say something nice. I think he's a nice man.
Matthews: Well what do you think about...
Carville: Let me say, just say something nice about him. I think he's a nice man.
Matthews: What do you think about Senator Ted Kennedy and Congressman George Miller, of California, both education guys, saying that they think there is a lot of common ground between Bush and them?
Carville: There is. Basically, he's...he said he would can the vouchers. Once he cans the vouchers and starts talking about spending 35 billion more on education, why would anybody, why would Senator Kennedy be against that? Here's a guy, that's fought all of his life for education. So if he wants to cave on these idiotic vouchers, of which he has sent a signal that he's more than willing to do...See I think what they're gonna find out...I thing what these democrats see is, here's a President that as long as they can get him to do what they wants 'em to do, they'll say, "fine!" Congressman Miller will say the same thing. But the point is watch out because when a guy says no more War Rooms...
Matthews: Right. How about, would you prefer, something more reasonable room like across the aisle relationship room...
Carville: No, I like "war rooms."
Matthews: You came up with it.
Carville: Yes. I like them. What I don't like is duplicity. Where you run a campaign against something then you're barely in office and then you do the same thing, use the same word, that was used before.
Matthews: Like with Governor Bill Clinton coming in 1992 and saying he was gonna give us a big middle class tax cut and then raising taxes?
Carville: So. Ya know, ya know.
Matthews: That's kinda two-faced.
Carville: Just hold on one second. Who did he raise taxes on? Now, wait a minute. [crosstalk] He raised taxes on the top rate. He cut the earned income tax credit. If you look at what happened to middle class incomes over the last eight years, this is the most dazzling eight years for rising in middle class income ever.
Matthews: He was gonna cut middle class taxes and he didn't.
Carville: Well sure he cut. He cut the ITC, he picked 'em up. Absolutely.
Matthews: He did a 180 James and you know it.
Carville: Best president, best president we've ever had.
Matthews: You're like Jesse Jackson, you broaden the issue when you're losing the narrow argument. But I understand that. Let's talk about the politics of this fella, the politics of the party, President, your friend Jim, James, your friend Bill Clinton. This new guy coming in, this charm offensive--is it smart?
Carville: Yes. It's gonna work for awhile because the press likes that. They like a picture, a pretty picture, or something like that. And, I think, let me say...that I think that President Bush is a genuinely nice fella. Met him myself. He's a personable guy.
Matthews: Your wife works for him.
Carville: My wife works for him. My wife is nice....I'm crazy about her...
Matthews: Let me ask about some serious stuff of a. Let's talk about your boss for awhile, the guy you brought to the White House, very effectively, you and Begala. Seems to me that he wanted to leave the office with some style and why shouldn't he? He had high approval ratings. And he was gonna leave by perhaps doing something perhaps in Korea, which we all worry about no and then...
Carville: He didn't have "high" approval ratings, he had the highest approval ratings of anybody in history.
Matthews: I can't say it right, as hard as I try.
Carville: Yeah, well.
Matthews: What about Northern Ireland? He was gonna try to seal that deal he put so much blood and guts into politically, and he was gonna do something in the Middle East, which is a powder keg all the time. You know the Middle East pretty well. What went wrong? Why did he get involved in all this petty stuff? The big office. The gifts. All that crap.
Carville: What I find interesting is that this is all Washington claptrap. There's a new Zogby poll out in New York State now shows Mrs. Clinton's favorables actually up a tick, and unfavorables down. This is all gum flapping in Washington. Ok? And ya know, I think the President...
Matthews: Why did the Clinton's flap their gums this weekend? Which I think is par for the course on every one of these issues.
Carville: Again, I think that they did it because they just got sick of the claptrap. But it's not gonna matter. What happened is, I know that what happened is that Washington took on this President and Washington lost. It lost big. He left office with the highest approval rating of any President...and by the way, very high personal approval ratings, I think it was like 57 or 58...was his personal approval rating. His job approval rating was like 68, 70 even I think in a Newsweek poll. So, everybody is gonna come...everybody is coming to the point that ya all lost, get over it. Ya know, sometimes you get into a fight. Somebody wins somebody lost. [crosstalk]. We won the fight and you guys lost the fight. Go to your cocktail parties and worry about if it's [??]
Matthews: But let me...[crosstalk]...0 percent as a moral leader.
Carville: But, what was his approval rating. [crosstalk]...Answer this. [crosstalk] It's personal. He left...Did he have the highest...Do you approve of Bill Clinton? Fifty-eight percent. Unbelievable. Not just his job rating. But answer me, is this correct. Did he have the highest approval rating in the history of polling? Of course he did. But what is there to argue about. So go ahead, what do you want me to argue with me about.
Matthews: Well, you're a loyalist to the end. Let me ask you about a couple of things. Do you think the Clinton departure added radiance to the Bush arrival?
Carville: Look, Bush came in here. He got in here by losing the election. He's the first President we've had since 1888...
Matthews: So, you're not gonna wait for those newspapers in Florida to get the facts?
Carville: Well he's already ahead. Gore is already ahead right now, with what we know. In Palm Beach County picked up 625 votes, in Lake County he picked up 130 votes. And in one other county, Hillsborough, he picked up 120.
Matthews: What are we counting in terms of ballots down there? What are we counting these days?
Carville: Talking about where somebody put Gore's name in then wrote Gore's name in, and the machine kicked it out. Now argue with me with a straight face. A guy puts a X by Al Gore's name, and writes Al Gore on the write in. The machine kicks the ballot out.
Matthews: Ok. Why is that?
Carville: Because the machine won't take a write in and another thing. Now, who did the guy intend to vote for?
Matthews: Gore.
Carville: Thank you.
Matthews: So the machines were in error?
Carville: Yeah.
Matthews: The machines were read by local
democrats who control those counties.
Carville: No, I doubt if local democrats control Lake County.
Matthews: Well they control all the targeted counties by democrats. Palm.
Carville: Let's wait and see.
Matthews: Miami-Dade.
Carville: Again, lets wait and see. Were gonna see. Were gonna see [crosstalk]. . Were gonna see that Gore won Florida by a substantial vote.
Matthews: When do ya think?
Carville: Your gonna have to ask your friends at the New York Times. Or at the Washington Post, or at the other one.
Carville: Not only that, but I'll predict, we're gonna find out as the Florida story unfolds, and there's actually people down there working now...I think we're gonna find out a lot of things. We know that this President lost the popular vote bad. Somebody told me it's up to 700,000 now, did you hear that?
Matthews: Well it's rising, it was up to 580. Let me ask you a question. If Gore won the pop… had Gore won the electoral vote…
Carville: He won both. He won Florida.
Matthews: and lost the popular vote, would you give the election to Bush?
Carville: If Gore would…No. Gore won the electoral. Gore won Florida.
Matthews: Why did you yabber about it now?
Carville: He won Florida.
Matthews: Why did you just shift the attention to the popular vote? We know the election...
Carville: I just said, no, no I'm saying…he won Florida … don't you understand? Scalia had stop them from counting because he was getting ready to win. They called up there and said "you gotta do something hoss! We're gettin' ready to lose this thing!" OK. I mean. Do you think any Democrat in the country doesn't know what happened? We all know who won Florida.
Matthews: Let's talk about…
Carville: Wait a minute here [crosstalk]...Let me finish my point here. There's nothing to argue about. Al Gore won Florida. We're just beatin' our gums about nothing.
Matthews: It seems to me that there are two kinds of Democrats in this city, in this city you don't like now all of a sudden.
Carville: I didn't say…
Matthews: You said Washington lost and all this stuff.
Carville: I said, yes, they lost the fight with Clinton but I still like living here.
Matthews: Let's talk about the Democrats here, in this town. It seems to me that you could easily cut a difference between the Democrats like Teddy and George Miller and other Democrats on the Hill, perhaps Gephardt, who want to deal with this new president.
Carville: They should deal with him.
Matthews: And other Democrats, who simply want...Black Caucus members and yourself...who simply want to protest ad infinitum. When you gonna stop [??] Florida? When are you gonna stop arguing about it?
Carville: Because...
Matthews: When are you gonna stop?
Carville: Let me tell you why...
Matthews: When are you gonna stop?
Carville: It's not your election to stop arguing about.
Matthews: I'm just asking...
Carville: When are you gonna let me answer the question? [crosstalk] Are you gonna let me answer your question?
Matthews: Let me tell you what question it is. James, the question is how long are you people gonna rap about Florida?
Carville: You know what? We're gonna find out the truth. You don't want the truth.
Matthews: No...I...
Carville: Would you please let me answer the question? Would you just let me answer the question and then interrupt when I get through? Cause if you interrupt me again, I'm just gonna stop talking.
Matthews: Ok. And try not to make any accusations while you answer the question.
Carville: Now, do I tell you what questions to ask me?
Matthews: No.
Carville: Then, don't...
Matthews: When are you gonna stop talking about Florida?
Carville: Don't ask me on your show and tell me how to answer the questions. You know what: I'm gonna stop talking about Florida when we know the truth. Because it is not yours . . . Right? And it is not anybody else's right to tell people who worked their hearts out, and when Al Gore won the election, to say we shouldn't know the truth.
Matthews: Right.
Carville: And you know what? I'm not gonna stop talking about it. Because I know he won Florida, you know he won Florida, and the Democrats know he won Florida and all of you people in Florida and around the country that went out there and you worked your hearts out, and you gave money, and you knocked on doors, and you did this, James Carville is gonna keep fightin' for you. And we're gonna find out the truth in Florida and we're gonna find out that Al Gore won by a lot. So no, I'm not gonna stop talking about it, ever.
Matthews: Right. Why did those counties stop counting down there when they were offered a chance by the Florida court to count. Why didn't Miami-Dade count? You had all the opportunity at the local level to count these...
Carville: Hold on a second...the Supreme Court stopped the count.
Matthews: Hmmm.
Carville: The count was going on, because they got word Gore was gonna win. You can't wish the outcome. You can't take a presidential election away from people Chris. That's not your right.
Matthews: Ummm.
Carville: And these people out here that worked their hearts out, you watch in 2002, you watch in 2004.
Matthews: Right.
Carville: These Democrats are not…they are riled up. As they ought to be riled up. And they're gonna stay riled up. And you know…
Matthews: I know the principle of everybody voting.
Carville: No, you don't. But you don't want to count them. A lot of people voting but you just don't want to count it. I want to count 'em.
Matthews: Let me ask you why did the Democrats put out an order to all the counties to make sure they undercounted as much as possible all the overseas service people if you guys want an honest count?
Carville: We're gonna find out. Let's just wait.
Matthews: That's not the truth?
Carville: No that's not the truth.
Matthews: Oh, it's not? What was the truth?
Carville: Let's just face it. Overseas ballots are not just service people. That's another great misnomer that all you guys fall for.
Matthews: There was a concerted effort to kill the vote of overseas people including service men.
Carville: No, what there was, was . . . there was a concerted effort to say these were the rules. But what we're gonna find out . . But, there's no sense getting into that cause we're gonna find out a lot here very shortly. Very shortly. So let's just wait.
Matthews: So in a couple weeks, will you come back and talk about the results when you win?
Carville: We'll talk about them any time that you want to. You're the ones that don't want to talk about the results.
Matthews: No, I do.
Carville: I always want to talk about the results. You don't like to talk about it.
Matthews: I think the purpose of elections is to govern the country.
Carville: No.
Matthews: At some point you move to that.
Carville: No, let me tell you what Bush doesn't have. He doesn't have the will of the people validating his position.
Matthews: Yeah.
Carville: The people voted against him.[?? something ??] direction
Matthews: Ok, thank you. Please come back. James Carville. Big buddy, believe it or not.
Carville: You just don't want to know. I want to know.
posted on February 12, 2001 08:32:53 AM new
Thanks Chum!
Now, we need a video. Part of the drama
of the event was that he was able to talk
louder and faster than Matthews while
pointing out the luducrous nature of Matthews
remarks.
posted on February 12, 2001 08:42:55 AM new
Good grief. I've always liked Carville and gotten a kick out of him, but when you actually read what he says...
posted on February 12, 2001 09:13:14 AM new
LOL, toke. When I read it this morning my first thought was that Carville does not translate well in transcripts.
posted on February 12, 2001 09:54:42 AM new
Zazzie
"Interesting" is an understatement. Sometimes
she won't speak to him for a week.
There is a very interesting book,
All's Fair, love, war and running for president by Mary Matalin and James Carville
about their views and relationship.
posted on February 12, 2001 10:17:01 AM new
Helen: You're right--All's Fair is a really good book! I read it a year or so ago, and my husband liked it too.
Femme: Nobody really comes across very well in verbatim transcriptions, and poor James didn't either (although he did get some great zingers in). What we all need to see is the video, to see his great facial expressions, frowns, twitching eyebrows, and general rabidity. I love the guy, but I know there are people out there who can't stand him because he's so different from the ordinary "gasbags" on Pundit TV--he doesn't have poofy hair and perfect features, and his clothes are just regular guy clothes.
He's very likeable.